Panasonic TH-65VX300 - Convincing Kuro beater finally?

[bigboss]

I've been reading a few reviews of Panasonic TH-65VX300. It's a professional 3D plasma TV available only through dealers offering professional installation. Seems like this finally is the TV that has matched or exceeded the Kuro in all departments, with the added benefit of reference quality 3D.

 

[bigboss]

http://www.kenthomecinema.co.uk/PANASONIC-TH65VX300.htm

It's selling for £8995! Just goes on to show why Pioneer was unable to make any profits on the Kuro.

 

[Oldboy]

Good spot bigboss!!

Definately puts the Kuro into perspective...i wonder just how much money Pioneer were losing on every set now? Would be nice if WHF could review this tv as part of the Temptations section in the mag....any chance WHF??

Would be nice to know if this tv really is a Kuro beater as the specs and info you provided look very promising, now where could i possibly get the £9000 from i wonder :?

 

[The_Lhc]

My local level 1 pioneer dealer told me that the company had said they would have needed to sell the kuros for double way they were selling them to make any money, so about 6-7 grand for the 60" krp, roughly.

 

[Oldboy]

Gulp!

Then it's no wonder they pulled out of the tv market, those sorts of losses are unsustainable but i wonder if they would have sold many tvs at that price point? Perhaps if the Kuro brand was a premium high level/price point tv in the first place it would still be with us and still evolving, could they have made them any better in the years since they stopped production?

 

[bigboss]

I think Pioneer was caught up in the middle. It wanted to offer premium quality & also wanted to aim at the mass market with one product. It it had 2 different lines - Pioneer brand for the mass market producing TVs of all sizes, & the Kuro / Elite brand aimed only at the premium market, competing with the likes of B&O & Loewe. Who knows, it might have still been around. Kuro had a brand appeal no other TV could even dream of matching.

Pioneer was in the process of developing the 10th generation Kuro, code named "Fuga" with interesting advances over the 9th generation.

http://kuro10g.blogspot.com/2009/01/code-name-fuga.html

http://www.sat-universe.com/archive/index.php/t-100711.html

 

[CnoEvil]

In 2006, Pioneer's groundbreaking PDP-5000EX (50") full HD TV, cost a cool £6k....that may be more indicative of where costs should have been.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Would be nice if WHF could review this tv as part of the Temptations section in the mag....any chance WHF??

We're ahead of you there - one is already sitting in our test rooms 🙂

 

[bigboss]

Would be nice if WHF could review this tv as part of the Temptations section in the mag....any chance WHF??

We're ahead of you there - one is already sitting in our test rooms 🙂

:dance:

 

[Oldboy]

Would be nice if WHF could review this tv as part of the Temptations section in the mag....any chance WHF??

We're ahead of you there - one is already sitting in our test rooms 🙂

:bounce:

Brilliant news Clare! Any idea when we will see the review??

 

[Oldboy]

I think Pioneer was caught up in the middle. It wanted to offer premium quality & also wanted to aim at the mass market with one product. It it had 2 different lines - Pioneer brand for the mass market producing TVs of all sizes, & the Kuro / Elite brand aimed only at the premium market, competing with the likes of B&O & Loewe. Who knows, it might have still been around. Kuro had a brand appeal no other TV could even dream of matching.

Pioneer was in the process of developing the 10th generation Kuro, code named "Fuga" with interesting advances over the 9th generation.

http://kuro10g.blogspot.com/2009/01/code-name-fuga.html

http://www.sat-universe.com/archive/index.php/t-100711.html

Many thanks for the links, it makes very interesting reading but just makes me wonder what would have been if the 10th generation made it to production.

It's a little depressing reading that improvements were in the works and yet it never happened but i guess it would have crippled Pioneer as a company if the pricing had continued into the 10th generation.

Oh how i would have liked to have seen one....

I do wonder if Pioneer would ever return to the tv market in the future despite losing alot of the Kuro team to Panasonic, perhaps if market conditions were better in the future they may consider it...or perhaps i'm just dreaming/living in hope?

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Thanks for this discussion thread and the links, bigboss. I for one am very happy with the quality of my 8th and 9th generation Pioneer TVs and I am ENTIRELY COMFORTABLE that progress marches on, and that even my 9th generation Pioneer will one day be bettered, if the Panasonic VT30 series has not done so already. I certainly wouldn't be looking to replace my Pioneer plasmas just now, not even if I won the lottery. Last night I was watching the freeview TV channel 31, 5USA, on my 42" Pioneer (which isn't even full HD, remember), and I was thinking that the picture was really jolly good, and 5USA not even a high-definition channel, it's just standard definition. So all praise to the Kuro-beaters, but I'll stick with what I have.

 

[bigboss]

I do wonder if Pioneer would ever return to the tv market in the future despite losing alot of the Kuro team to Panasonic, perhaps if market conditions were better in the future they may consider it...or perhaps i'm just dreaming/living in hope?

Trouble is, that Pioneer has also sold all its Kuro related patents to Panasonic. It's unlikely to make a comeback.

But it DOES look like Panasonic is doing what Pioneer should've done. I wonder how much of this TV is inspired by the Kuro, with further improvements in technology. :?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Would be nice if WHF could review this tv as part of the Temptations section in the mag....any chance WHF??

We're ahead of you there - one is already sitting in our test rooms 🙂

:bounce:

Brilliant news Clare! Any idea when we will see the review??

I'll check with the team!

 

[zameerisgreat]

Would be nice if WHF could review this tv as part of the Temptations section in the mag....any chance WHF??

We're ahead of you there - one is already sitting in our test rooms 🙂

:bounce:

Brilliant news Clare! Any idea when we will see the review??

I'll check with the team!

Have you checked ?

 

[ellisdj]

I would like to see the Panasonic 65VT30 against a kuro side by side to see if it has the edge, I expect it to in many areas - obviously it would need to be the 60"

I am sure Panasonic are making money on their TV's thats why there are flaws in them - colour tinges etc

I love my Kuro LX5090 and cant really see where it could be improved and its very rare I say that about anything electronic.

The main areas would be power consumption and the annoying buzzing!

I paid £2k for it right at the end - I think I got one of the last ones available in the UK - I had to do some hunting.

Clever companies like Sony, Samsung and Panasonic pushed the price down to push Pioneer the best out of the market - clever

Sell them at £2k or dont sell any was more than likely their resultant strategy.

You need to be a hobbyist really to own one - as you need to invest in all other high end equipment otherwise its pointless owning one. You need to calibrate it, not necessarily by a pro but find some good settings and punch them in.

75% of the market buy a big telly on a whim - because their mate has just bought one - they will want a new one in a few years - therefore £2k+ is a lot to pay out with that mindset especially as you get no stand or sound... people cant work that out when I tell them....

However I love it when people come round my house, my Kuro is centre stage in my room with my front 3 speakers B&W 805 that really stand out because of the Naultilaus Tweeters. They cant stop looking at it - they all thinks its bigger than it is. I still love it as much today as the first day and I think the image is so good its almost 3D without being so. Owners might know what I mean by that comment. I dont want Pioneer to make a return becuase I cant justify buying another one .... but I would really want to 🙂

 

[bigboss]

Brilliant review!

http://www.whathifi.com/review/panasonic-th-65vx300

Just goes on to show the cost to manufacture the best TV in the world.

 

[sometimesuk]

I'm not sure how long the VX300 has been out, but the review states that is offers :"VX300 can generate 12,288" steps of gradation.

Whats interesting the new GT50 and VT50 series offers "24,576" steps of graduation.

Specifications dont equate to quality, so I'm not saying its going to be equal to the VX300, but it does speak volumes about progress of technology.

Prehaps its just all about selling the numbers, like Apple products, if you sell enough of them, you can keep the cost down and still have a high quality product.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I stumbled across this thread on google while I was looking for something else, and I thought it would be slightly mischievous to revive it (it's only a year and a half old, and interesting to see what the 17 posts so far said), in view of the recent releases of Panasonic's 65VT65 and, especially, 60ZT65 plasmas. Which are STILL being compared to Pioneer's late, lamented Kuro sets. Oh, did What Hi-Fi ever review the TX-65V300 in the Temptations section of the magazine?

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Whoops! I should have checked before posting. 😳 What Hi-Fi did indeed review the Panasonic TX-65VX300, though as the online reviews don't give dates (a lack which has been mentioned several times previously!) I can't say exactly when it was reviewed, but I suspect in early 2012?. Developing the post by sometimesuk two posts above this one, I see from the review that (referring to the number of picture gradation steps), the review says "The VT30 musters 6,144, but the VX300 can generate 12,288. What does this actually mean in terms of picture quality? In a word: clarity. The VT30's picture was hardly poor, but the VX300's is palpably better." Both of these figures are put well into the shade by the 65VT65's and the 60ZT65's 30,720 gradations steps. The headline subtitle of the TX-65VX300 review says "A luxury option to be sure, but also the finest plasma display we've ever tested." I don't know whether What Hi-Fi would still say that, and if not, that's progress! 🙂

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to see the Panasonic 65VT30 against a kuro side by side to see if it has the edge, I expect it to in many areas - obviously it would need to be the 60"

I am sure Panasonic are making money on their TV's thats why there are flaws in them - colour tinges etc

I love my Kuro LX5090 and cant really see where it could be improved and its very rare I say that about anything electronic.

The main areas would be power consumption and the annoying buzzing!

I paid £2k for it right at the end - I think I got one of the last ones available in the UK - I had to do some hunting.

Clever companies like Sony, Samsung and Panasonic pushed the price down to push Pioneer the best out of the market - clever

Sell them at £2k or dont sell any was more than likely their resultant strategy.

You need to be a hobbyist really to own one - as you need to invest in all other high end equipment otherwise its pointless owning one. You need to calibrate it, not necessarily by a pro but find some good settings and punch them in.

75% of the market buy a big telly on a whim - because their mate has just bought one - they will want a new one in a few years - therefore £2k+ is a lot to pay out with that mindset especially as you get no stand or sound... people cant work that out when I tell them....

However I love it when people come round my house, my Kuro is centre stage in my room with my front 3 speakers B&W 805 that really stand out because of the Naultilaus Tweeters. They cant stop looking at it - they all thinks its bigger than it is. I still love it as much today as the first day and I think the image is so good its almost 3D without being so. Owners might know what I mean by that comment. I dont want Pioneer to make a return becuase I cant justify buying another one .... but I would really want to 🙂

Pioneer Plasma and LCD could have dominated the world of TVs. Where was Sony then?

With Pioneer Kuro as top dog and R and D that knows no equal what could go wrong? The most perfect of TV technologies. It could not posibly fail at least seen from that era.

If the Kuro range kept on going you would wonder what you could have in your living room now. That momentus occasion came and gone and the Panasonic is new face of plasma TV. But Frankly, it just isn't the same is it, if you have or had experience a Kuro.The nearest Pioneer TV I owned was the a Zebra(out of business) modified special 50 inch rear projection TV,approved by Pioneer UK. It cost me £5,000 but I paid it. It was King in those days. Again where was Samsung and Sony then?

I am miffed and have little sympathies for the Kuro's demise.Company division had the world of TV in their hands from the days of the rear projection sets. All it took was some wiser business decison and the brand would still be alive today. Its downfall was of its own making and not due to fate.

Maybe it was arraogance that it could not fail as it had the best products in its heyday that was its downfall?

I do not think Panasonic will ever be able to step out of the Kuro's shadows for those who had the Kuro. A legend just like Bruce Lee and still the one to beat.

 

[The_Lhc]

Maybe it was arraogance that it could not fail as it had the best products in its heyday that was its downfall?

I think it was more a TV market that wouldn't spend £2.5k on a 50" TV, never mind the £5k that (apparently*) Pioneer would have had to charge to actually make any money out of the Kuro sets.

*This is what a Pioneer rep at the Bristol Hi-Fi show told me a couple of years ago, I don't know how true it is.