Here's more info on Viera features, including 24p, on a panasonic web site
http://panasonic.net/pavc/viera/features/europe.html
http://panasonic.net/pavc/viera/features/europe.html
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
Hello, and welcome to the Forums.
I'd trust the word of numerous Panasonic product designers over an early-edition product manual (that probably didn't get seen by anyone in the technical department before it was printed!). But I will check. Again!
We've also now got the set in....
[/quote]
Thanks a lot, Clare, I tend to agree with you on the typo of the manual, especially since other versions/translations do hot report the same phrase, but the uk manual is the only statement "black on white" from Panasonic that we have, so it does play an important role....
since your kindness, and the fact that you mention the pz85 is in your lab, I allow myself to ask your opinion on my BIG dilemma: after having seen the tv, would you recommend it over a Pio 4280xd? I was about to make the purchase of the TH42PZ85, when I got an advert that the Pio has been cut in price to get close to the Panny...so now it's my real DILEMMA!!!
Anyone please help
!!
and I can't wait to see the new issue of the mag with the results of the test...
Thanks again!
Hello, and welcome to the Forums.
I'd trust the word of numerous Panasonic product designers over an early-edition product manual (that probably didn't get seen by anyone in the technical department before it was printed!). But I will check. Again!
We've also now got the set in....
[/quote]
Thanks a lot, Clare, I tend to agree with you on the typo of the manual, especially since other versions/translations do hot report the same phrase, but the uk manual is the only statement "black on white" from Panasonic that we have, so it does play an important role....
since your kindness, and the fact that you mention the pz85 is in your lab, I allow myself to ask your opinion on my BIG dilemma: after having seen the tv, would you recommend it over a Pio 4280xd? I was about to make the purchase of the TH42PZ85, when I got an advert that the Pio has been cut in price to get close to the Panny...so now it's my real DILEMMA!!!
Anyone please help
and I can't wait to see the new issue of the mag with the results of the test...
Thanks again!
[quote user="rewerb"]
Here's more info on Viera features, including 24p, on a panasonic web site
http://panasonic.net/pavc/viera/features/europe.html
[/quote]
Sorry Clare and rewerb, haven't seen this post before writing my reply to Clare on the 24p handling...now it seems clear...the key is in the words"with 50-hz video input" that appears in the explanation of the IFC from Panasonic.
So, to recap, if I correctly understood, the pz85 (and the 800 for that matter) handle the signals like this:
SD signals (50hz): IFC, the frequency is risen to 60Hz with the addition of 1 frame per 0.1 sec
HD 24p signals: pull-down 4:4, total 96fps (native 24p handling feature)
Can we all agree on this?
Thanks again!
Here's more info on Viera features, including 24p, on a panasonic web site
http://panasonic.net/pavc/viera/features/europe.html
[/quote]
Sorry Clare and rewerb, haven't seen this post before writing my reply to Clare on the 24p handling...now it seems clear...the key is in the words"with 50-hz video input" that appears in the explanation of the IFC from Panasonic.
So, to recap, if I correctly understood, the pz85 (and the 800 for that matter) handle the signals like this:
SD signals (50hz): IFC, the frequency is risen to 60Hz with the addition of 1 frame per 0.1 sec
HD 24p signals: pull-down 4:4, total 96fps (native 24p handling feature)
Can we all agree on this?
Thanks again!
....and another question: if the IFC rises the frequency of SD signals to 60Hz, how is then the 100Hz panel handling this? Normally it duplicates the frequency (a sort of 2:2 pull-down) with a 50Hz signal, right? and now with the 60Hz image? do we compare the 100Hz with the 60Hz SD image??? doesn't sound sooo much better...the 37ph7 that I have shows a huge difference between the setting "50 Hz" and "100 Hz" for SD signals, flickering is much reduced (obviously) with the 100hz signal...
Clare, please, could you clarify this with the Panasonic people? I know I'm new and already a pain in that place, but it's so hard to get in touch with (really) knowledgeable people that when you find one you bomb him/her with questions...
thanks so much!!!
Clare, please, could you clarify this with the Panasonic people? I know I'm new and already a pain in that place, but it's so hard to get in touch with (really) knowledgeable people that when you find one you bomb him/her with questions...
thanks so much!!!
Hallo Clare and everybody, still me, just to mention that I took some time to read carefully through the description of viera as defined in the link above...well, when describing the 100Hz feature it clearly says "when Intelligent Frame Creation is operating, the 100Hz double scan cannot be used", so I've answered myself...
...I'll keep quiet for a while now...
in the end, then, the only open issue on which I'd love to get opinions is whether this 42pz85 would still be better than a kuro 4280xd, considering to sit at 2.5m/ 3m (max) from the screen and to use the tv 40% with 1080p signals, 30% with SD PAL signals, 20% with 1080i signals and 10% with a PC (but no gaming...): where I live, infact, these two wanderful tvs are offered at almost the same price (say 150 Euro difference)
thanks to anyone with experience comparing such products!
cheers
the pain where the sun does not shine
in the end, then, the only open issue on which I'd love to get opinions is whether this 42pz85 would still be better than a kuro 4280xd, considering to sit at 2.5m/ 3m (max) from the screen and to use the tv 40% with 1080p signals, 30% with SD PAL signals, 20% with 1080i signals and 10% with a PC (but no gaming...): where I live, infact, these two wanderful tvs are offered at almost the same price (say 150 Euro difference)
thanks to anyone with experience comparing such products!
cheers
the pain where the sun does not shine
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
Please, someone, interrupt Halpha's interior monologue...
[/quote]
Interrupt it? I don't understand it, let alone interrupt it.
Please, someone, interrupt Halpha's interior monologue...
[/quote]
Interrupt it? I don't understand it, let alone interrupt it.
[quote user="Halpha"]
...I'll keep quiet for a while now...
[/quote]
unless someone misses my monologues...
...and I'd still appreciate opinions on my pio vs pana dilemma....
goodnight, I'm off...
...I'll keep quiet for a while now...
[/quote]
unless someone misses my monologues...
...and I'd still appreciate opinions on my pio vs pana dilemma....
goodnight, I'm off...
Halpha i guess you're a specification guy, are'nt you...?
You'd get along with Toshiba, they're into spec aswell
Cant wait to see the pz85 or pz 800 in action against the kuro and sony x...
You'd get along with Toshiba, they're into spec aswell
Cant wait to see the pz85 or pz 800 in action against the kuro and sony x...
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
Please, someone, interrupt Halpha's interior monologue...
[/quote]
...it's called "stream of consciousness" and it was invented by an Anglo-Saxon (Irish) writer...
4 dio: I just like to know what I buy and how to make it work 100% (and maybe a bit more, where possible
)
not to shift OT: if someone from the mag could check with Panasonic how the IFC works with the 24p in detail (it is said that it works also for that), I would really appreciate it...we understand the addition of the 10 fps when handling SD signals at 50Hz, but it's unclear how it works with the 24 fps, thanks once more.
...after this, I promise
.....
cheers
Please, someone, interrupt Halpha's interior monologue...
[/quote]
...it's called "stream of consciousness" and it was invented by an Anglo-Saxon (Irish) writer...
4 dio: I just like to know what I buy and how to make it work 100% (and maybe a bit more, where possible
not to shift OT: if someone from the mag could check with Panasonic how the IFC works with the 24p in detail (it is said that it works also for that), I would really appreciate it...we understand the addition of the 10 fps when handling SD signals at 50Hz, but it's unclear how it works with the 24 fps, thanks once more.
...after this, I promise
cheers
As previously mentioned, IFC can be turned on or off, so you can go back to good-old 4:4 pulldown for 24fps if you prefer - IFC is designed to offer a smoother, more filmic look to Full HD content, but Pana acknowledges not everyone will prefer it to to video's sharper look.
So don't fret, Halpha - it's a mere picture processing option, not a deal-breaker.
So don't fret, Halpha - it's a mere picture processing option, not a deal-breaker.
thanks, Clare.
indeed, I do not consider the IFC a deal breaker, but I would like to understand how it works in detail to make the best out of it, if possible.
The other thing that may (just a bit) annoy me is that Panasonic put R&D effort and computing power into something that may not be so effective, whereas this power and effort could have been devoted in perfecting something more important, like e.g. upscaling and de-interlacing
...and I am not saying that these performances in the 37px7 I have are bad....they may be improved, as always...
thanks for your time, look forward to read the next issue of the mag...btw: how's going with the testing?
cheers
indeed, I do not consider the IFC a deal breaker, but I would like to understand how it works in detail to make the best out of it, if possible.
The other thing that may (just a bit) annoy me is that Panasonic put R&D effort and computing power into something that may not be so effective, whereas this power and effort could have been devoted in perfecting something more important, like e.g. upscaling and de-interlacing
thanks for your time, look forward to read the next issue of the mag...btw: how's going with the testing?
cheers
Well, there's an explanation of Intelligent Frame Creation on the Panasonic site referenced above, but it's not exactly a great demonstration.
And I'm not sure how understanding in detail how it works will help you make more of it, as it has no user settings, but is just an on/off option. As Clare said above, I guess it's just a case of 'if you don't like the effect, turn it off'.
Having attended far too many TV launches for my own good, I find most sets look best with as much processing as possible turned off.
And I'm not sure how understanding in detail how it works will help you make more of it, as it has no user settings, but is just an on/off option. As Clare said above, I guess it's just a case of 'if you don't like the effect, turn it off'.
Having attended far too many TV launches for my own good, I find most sets look best with as much processing as possible turned off.
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
I find most sets look best with as much processing as possible turned off.
[/quote]
Amen to that....
BTW, I have asked Panasonic for any further tech info they have on IFC. If any is forthcoming, it'll appear up here.
I find most sets look best with as much processing as possible turned off.
[/quote]
Amen to that....
BTW, I have asked Panasonic for any further tech info they have on IFC. If any is forthcoming, it'll appear up here.
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
And I'm not sure how understanding in detail how it works will help you make more of it, as it has no user settings, but is just an on/off option. As Clare said above, I guess it's just a case of 'if you don't like the effect, turn it off'.
Having attended far too many TV launches for my own good, I find most sets look best with as much processing as possible turned off.
[/quote]
Andrew,
you've just touched two of the main issues versus such type of consumer products:
1. there are very few chances for setting a tv of such complexity: it's understood that there is a need to keep it simple, but there shall be an option for more advanced users to access to a "higher level" setting. Somehow in some other forums you can find tricks to access the servicing menu of tv sets like the ones we're talking about, but with no guidance this may be dangerous even for an advanced user.
2. everybody knows that a 1:1 mapping of the panel with your input signal would be just great...unfortunately it is simply (almost) impossible in the normal use of a tv set. We cannot only watch BD (or HDDVD, still a big fan of that in spite of the recent events...
), and it is a fact that HD broadcast is and will be (forever and ever??) only interlaced due to bandwith issues, so you DO need processing anyhow...so, it'd better be good
...
cheers
And I'm not sure how understanding in detail how it works will help you make more of it, as it has no user settings, but is just an on/off option. As Clare said above, I guess it's just a case of 'if you don't like the effect, turn it off'.
Having attended far too many TV launches for my own good, I find most sets look best with as much processing as possible turned off.
[/quote]
Andrew,
you've just touched two of the main issues versus such type of consumer products:
1. there are very few chances for setting a tv of such complexity: it's understood that there is a need to keep it simple, but there shall be an option for more advanced users to access to a "higher level" setting. Somehow in some other forums you can find tricks to access the servicing menu of tv sets like the ones we're talking about, but with no guidance this may be dangerous even for an advanced user.
2. everybody knows that a 1:1 mapping of the panel with your input signal would be just great...unfortunately it is simply (almost) impossible in the normal use of a tv set. We cannot only watch BD (or HDDVD, still a big fan of that in spite of the recent events...
cheers
hi clare been following this board for a while now considering getting the 42pz85 as my sony kp413su has a big gaping hole where the screen should be, currently using binoculars to watch the tiny portable until the insurance comes through aaarrrghhh. i also have a ps3, so wanted to ask about how this set will handle the games i will use it for the blu movies too but mostly hardcore gaming. i know most of them wont be a problem running at 50 or 100hz double scan but is there a 60hz mode as some of the games support 60fps? or would the picture be better just playing at 50fps using the double scan if that ingame option is possible. and also is it hdmi 1.3 compatible
cheers
cheers
Sorry to try to resurrect the discussion about the pulldown in 24Hz / 24p / 24 fps sources for the 2008 models.
I bought a TH-42 PZ 85BA from Comet a few weeks ago thinking I am buying a full HD 24p plasma
I went back to the manual for my TH-42PZ85BA and as you open it on
Page 3 there is the "24p Real Cinema" - "The 24p source data of movies
is converted into a video signal with 6 frames / 0.1 second. This
produces smoother movie playback."
I read on this thread that Panasonic claims PZ80 and PZ85 when given a 24Hz source are supposed to perform a
4:4 pulldown (unlike the US model which only does 2:3 pulldown - lucky
us). Therefore it displays at 96Hz!!!
If it's 96Hz then why is the manual saying 6 frames in 0.1 sec (60Hz) next to the 24p Real Cinema ?
Very dubious.
1 Does TH-42PZ85BA have 24p Real Cinema ?
2 How is it done ? What type of pulldown 4:4 ? 2;3 ? or 3:3 like I read somewhere else?
3 WHy the discrepancies ?
Cheers
I bought a TH-42 PZ 85BA from Comet a few weeks ago thinking I am buying a full HD 24p plasma
I went back to the manual for my TH-42PZ85BA and as you open it on
Page 3 there is the "24p Real Cinema" - "The 24p source data of movies
is converted into a video signal with 6 frames / 0.1 second. This
produces smoother movie playback."
I read on this thread that Panasonic claims PZ80 and PZ85 when given a 24Hz source are supposed to perform a
4:4 pulldown (unlike the US model which only does 2:3 pulldown - lucky
us). Therefore it displays at 96Hz!!!
If it's 96Hz then why is the manual saying 6 frames in 0.1 sec (60Hz) next to the 24p Real Cinema ?
Very dubious.
1 Does TH-42PZ85BA have 24p Real Cinema ?
2 How is it done ? What type of pulldown 4:4 ? 2;3 ? or 3:3 like I read somewhere else?
3 WHy the discrepancies ?
Cheers
I found an official document that states black on white that PZ85, the european model does 96Hz with 24p sources.
http://panasonic.ro/files/cataloage/17_CATALOG_VIERA.pdf
I does not mention 4:4 pulldown but I have calmed down.
I can't wait tto buy a good 24p source now.
http://panasonic.ro/files/cataloage/17_CATALOG_VIERA.pdf
I does not mention 4:4 pulldown but I have calmed down.
I can't wait tto buy a good 24p source now.
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