One shop said PM6005 cannot drive CM1

[Broner]

this is my second post, I still haven't brought my speakers or amp or dac yet but I'm very close.

Just curious what you guys think:

I went into B&W showroom to test out 685 S2, 684 (ex-demo) on their Rotel RA-12. Both were good then I decide why not try out the CM1's also.

Its noticable that it needs a little more drive to achieve the same perception of volume/loudness. Love the CM1s....bad move on my part

Anywhere, I ended up at another hi-fi shop and ask if I could test the Marantz PM6005 driving the CM1, the guy said its near impossible because of the low hz/dB or something. He suggested PM8005 so we tested it. It sounded weak, struggling, he had the volume knob up at 1 O'clock and it wasnt even loud.

For fun, I asked to test the CM5 and he said, this is fine, it has a higher dB?, he turned the volume down to 9O'clock and the loudness was about the same as the CM1. He also tried a Sonus Faber Verere 1.5. He did use pre-attached cables so maybe the cables were faulty on CM1??

Anyway, onto 3rd shop, PM6005 with CM1, sounded really nice. Vol knob....normal range. Tried also PM6005 wth 685 S2, really nice too but less bassy than CM1.

I am a little hooked into the CM1 and I dont know whether its the looks or is it really really the quality of the speaker.

demo both again this coming Monday before I decide.

Amp, its PM6005 or RA-12.......don't really think I have any other choice unless I want to spend even more like RA-1570, PM8005, FMJ19...

It seems that you link the quality of the speaker to the loudness provided and to the position of the volume knob. Two remarks:

-loudness doesn't equate quality. The CM1's need more power than most other speakers if you want to drive them at the same volume, but that says little about it's quality. When comparing the speakers, try to make sure you listen to them at the same volume level.

-the loudness output of an amp is often not linear with the turning of the volume knob. Some amplifiers will give a lot in the beginning, while others may have more left when you turn the knob a bit further. You may not like what you've heard from the Marantz PM8005, but it is a very capable amplifier.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The CM range may have been going for 10 years, but that doesn't necessarily mean the models themselves have.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi boshk

Used/discontinued market is also worth a look. Rotel's RA-1062 and the NAD C370 are excellent amps and ones which you should be able to find within your budget.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I live in Hong Kong, so the used market here is pretty much non-existent.

Hi boshk

That's a shame.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[lpv]

Hi boshk

Used/discontinued market is also worth a look. Rotel's RA-1062 and the NAD C370 are excellent amps and ones which you should be able to find within your budget.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I live in Hong Kong, so the used market here is pretty much non-existent.

Hi boshk

That's a shame.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Oh, is it? That should be a dealer dream not to have second hand market.

 

[boshk]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

Looks like the upgrade on the new 685 s2 is only in the tweeter, not the cabinet, midbass woofer or crossover. It has the tweeter driver including the mesh from CM10 (flagship of the CM range).

That is a sweet upgrade and I can't wait to see also the new stuff in the CM range.

Is a CM range upgrade imminent ?...............:?

I'm guessing it is. I just asked about new CM1s from official dealer and they said, there are none in warehouse. Sales guy said probably Sept/Oct, there is a chance they will announce new line but the price wont be the same.

He offered his 7mth old CM1 and black cm stands for 580pounds with full warranty 5yrs !

The temptation!

 

[BigH]

I'm guessing it is. I just asked about new CM1s from official dealer and they said, there are none in warehouse. Sales guy said probably Sept/Oct, there is a chance they will announce new line but the price wont be the same.

He offered his 7mth old CM1 and black cm stands for 580pounds with full warranty 5yrs !

The temptation!

Sounds too much to me, thats more than new ones?

The CM1s are good looking well finished speakers but Im not a fan of the sound, for me the bass is wrong. Others have said similar or other negative things about them, depends what u want I suppose. I would try some other speakers like the Kef R100s.

 

[chebby]

Apparently yes, a new CM range is on its way but, following the price rises for the 600 range, will be more expensive than the out-going models.

Matthew, I have just noticed the Exposure 1010 amplifier in your system has been replaced with a Marantz PM6005. Is the Marantz better with your speakers than the Exposure?

(Sorry to the OP but this seemed the most 'on-topic' and recent thread to ask.)

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The B&W CM1 is of excellent quality and sound performance given the restraints it has of a small box and small mid/bass driver.

1) It is declared 84dB sensitivity but it is effectively something like 81dB and it needs a really good and powerfull amp to show its best. I got the Roksan Kandy K2 BT to drive mine and it is absolutely sublime (never go past 10 o'clock). A great alternative would be a big Rotel (RA-1570) or Electrocompaniet. A bigger amp of good quality but second hand could be a nice option as well. Maybe an Accuphase.

2) Do you have the original stands B&W FS700/CM? With those stands the CM1 is a completely different speaker, level up in performance.

:wave:

Maybe I should try CM1 with the RA-1570 but the price is nearly double of the PM6005/RA-12.

I dont have the FS700/CM stands, he was going to see if the boss would give me a bigger discount on the demo black stands depending on what colour I choose IF I went with the CM1s. There is a silver pair demo for 130pounds.

If the speakers require amplification outside your budget then maybe you should try different speakers! I've not heard these are anything special!

Chris

this I agree with.

you are looking at a budget amp, why look at speakers that may just reveal its short comings. and spend the next year unhappy with the sound you are getting plus how much you have spent.

 

[Vladimir]

You can buy the professional Behringer A500 for £133 (free delivery) which has 2 x 300W in 8 ohms and 2 x 600W in 4 ohms. Watts are cheap, but 'audiophile' watts are expensive.

The B&W CM1 are quite special otherwise I would have went with Tannoy, KEF, Roksan, MA. I not only bought a more expensive amp than the CM1, but also the matching £250 B&W FS700/CM stands.

 

[matthewpiano]

Apparently yes, a new CM range is on its way but, following the price rises for the 600 range, will be more expensive than the out-going models.

Matthew, I have just noticed the Exposure 1010 amplifier in your system has been replaced with a Marantz PM6005. Is the Marantz better with your speakers than the Exposure?

(Sorry to the OP but this seemed the most 'on-topic' and recent thread to ask.)

Hi Chebby. I've been using the Marantz for a few weeks now but still have the Exposure. Both amps are excellent but with the Marantz I am distracted from the equipment by the music more. To my great surprise the PM6005 drives the Dyns with ease, certainly to all the volume levels I wish for though it should of course be noted that I never have the volume control higher than around the 10 o'clock position and normally it sits either side of 9 o'clock. I'm not exactly a party animal! I find the Marantz/Dyn combo to be very persuasive and since using it even I have been surprised by how much less I have been posting in the hi-fi forum!

 

[Deliriumbassist]

I'm guessing it is. I just asked about new CM1s from official dealer and they said, there are none in warehouse. Sales guy said probably Sept/Oct, there is a chance they will announce new line but the price wont be the same.

He offered his 7mth old CM1 and black cm stands for 580pounds with full warranty 5yrs !

The temptation!

Sounds too much to me, thats more than new ones?

The CM1s are good looking well finished speakers but Im not a fan of the sound, for me the bass is wrong. Others have said similar or other negative things about them, depends what u want I suppose. I would try some other speakers like the Kef R100s.

New CM1s now retail for £600. £580 with full warranty and the FS700 stands (another £200) is a veritable bargain in my eyes.

And in response to nes about new CM range, I've been told September as well. They're getting rid of the silver trim around the midbass, and using a tweeter resembling the one used on the current CM10.

 

[boshk]

quick newbie question,

when people say this amp X can't drive speakers Y properly, you need to buy the more expensive Z amp......what exactly do they mean?

It makes the amp run too hot?

The volume knob needs to bit so high to even get a decent volume?

the sound is like cheap free speakers?

more expensive amp can power the speakers to max volume and still sound amazing?

I understand the concept, the more you pay, the better the quality, like most things in life, cars, houses, food, professional services....

one opinion I read recently from a forum member which was easy to understand was "RA-12 gets really hot driving speakers X, so he changed to another amp...more powerful but he didnt need to crank it up, sound was more pleasant, bass was brought through.....etc etc"

I guess I'm still in the deciding phase, pretty much going to pay and collect my demo CM1 and stand on Wednesday but the amp I still have time to choose so in the meantime I'm going to hook the CMs to my 15yr old av receiver Yam A595a.

Spent the last 6 days reading and reviewing peoples thoughts and suggestions.

I will of course ask to listen to the amps again tomorrow but in Hong Kong, other shops are not very friendly, B&W are the exception....amazing service and willingness to demo combinations.

So at the moment for Rotel, its RA-12 vs RA-1570 vs RA-1520 vs demo 1550/1582 pre/power amp. I've only audit the CM on the 12 and 1570 and both I like but they were short demonstrations...like 2 songs. Of course the RA-1570 is most $$$, the RA-1520 is same as the demo combo, RA-12 cheapest.

For other brands.....FMJ-a19 and Marantz PM6005 or 8005 but its pretty hard to get another test on them I think since its at some other shop

 

[Vladimir]

The job of the amplifier is to turn small electric signal from your source component (example 2V) into bigger signal (example 30V) towards the speakers in order to push the drivers and make sound waves, like a pump. If you want higher sound pressure levels you need a more powerfull 'pump' aka amplifier.

The amplifier price does not reflect the reality how powerful it is. Professional amplifiers like Crown or Behringer are cheaper and many times more powerfull than home hi-fi amps. The downside is they are not pretty and have cooling fans that turn on when the amp heats up and some people are annoyed by sound of cooling fans.

 

[BigH]

I'm guessing it is. I just asked about new CM1s from official dealer and they said, there are none in warehouse. Sales guy said probably Sept/Oct, there is a chance they will announce new line but the price wont be the same.

He offered his 7mth old CM1 and black cm stands for 580pounds with full warranty 5yrs !

The temptation!

Sounds too much to me, thats more than new ones?

The CM1s are good looking well finished speakers but Im not a fan of the sound, for me the bass is wrong. Others have said similar or other negative things about them, depends what u want I suppose. I would try some other speakers like the Kef R100s.

New CM1s now retail for £600. £580 with full warranty and the FS700 stands (another £200) is a veritable bargain in my eyes.

And in response to nes about new CM range, I've been told September as well. They're getting rid of the silver trim around the midbass, and using a tweeter resembling the one used on the current CM10.

Not sure about bargain but yes it does make more sense now. I did not know they had gone up that much, anyway u can usually get a discount, if you want them I would make an offer.