One shop said PM6005 cannot drive CM1

[boshk]

this is my second post, I still haven't brought my speakers or amp or dac yet but I'm very close.

Just curious what you guys think:

I went into B&W showroom to test out 685 S2, 684 (ex-demo) on their Rotel RA-12. Both were good then I decide why not try out the CM1's also.

Its noticable that it needs a little more drive to achieve the same perception of volume/loudness. Love the CM1s....bad move on my part

Anywhere, I ended up at another hi-fi shop and ask if I could test the Marantz PM6005 driving the CM1, the guy said its near impossible because of the low hz/dB or something. He suggested PM8005 so we tested it. It sounded weak, struggling, he had the volume knob up at 1 O'clock and it wasnt even loud.

For fun, I asked to test the CM5 and he said, this is fine, it has a higher dB?, he turned the volume down to 9O'clock and the loudness was about the same as the CM1. He also tried a Sonus Faber Verere 1.5. He did use pre-attached cables so maybe the cables were faulty on CM1??

Anyway, onto 3rd shop, PM6005 with CM1, sounded really nice. Vol knob....normal range. Tried also PM6005 wth 685 S2, really nice too but less bassy than CM1.

I am a little hooked into the CM1 and I dont know whether its the looks or is it really really the quality of the speaker.

demo both again this coming Monday before I decide.

Amp, its PM6005 or RA-12.......don't really think I have any other choice unless I want to spend even more like RA-1570, PM8005, FMJ19...

 

[drummerman]

Any amplifier can 'drive' a CM1 or similar.

What you loose with lower powered, cheaper amplifiers with compromised power supplies is control, head room, 'authority' etc etc.

Only you can determine whether the result is acceptable.

Often, only direct comparisons with more expensive amplifiers will highlight shortcomings though shortcomings there will be ultimately with something like the marantz you have mentioned. Why else would Marantz and others make more expensive amplifiers? - At some stage law of diminishing returns will kick in but entry level amplifiers are usually designed as a starting place, obviously.

regards

 

[Vladimir]

The B&W CM1 is of excellent quality and sound performance given the restraints it has of a small box and small mid/bass driver.

1) It is declared 84dB sensitivity but it is effectively something like 81dB and it needs a really good and powerfull amp to show its best. I got the Roksan Kandy K2 BT to drive mine and it is absolutely sublime (never go past 10 o'clock). A great alternative would be a big Rotel (RA-1570) or Electrocompaniet. A bigger amp of good quality but second hand could be a nice option as well. Maybe an Accuphase.

2) Do you have the original stands B&W FS700/CM? With those stands the CM1 is a completely different speaker, level up in performance.

:wave:

 

[SolarGlider]

Get the 685S2 now. The CM isn't in the same league anymore since the refresh. The CM series will be replaced this year.

 

[Vladimir]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

Looks like the upgrade on the new 685 s2 is only in the tweeter, not the cabinet, midbass woofer or crossover. It has the tweeter driver including the mesh from CM10 (flagship of the CM range).

That is a sweet upgrade and I can't wait to see also the new stuff in the CM range.

 

[plastic penguin]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

As your a man who likes to quote reviews, the CM5s are now only 3 stars. On that basis alone the 685 S2s will steamroller the CM5s.

 

[Vladimir]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

As your a man who likes to quote reviews, the CM5s are now only 3 stars. On that basis alone the 685 S2s will steamroller the CM5s.

Why not? The CM range is almost 10 years old now and its time to go forward.

 

[plastic penguin]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

As your a man who likes to quote reviews, the CM5s are now only 3 stars. On that basis alone the 685 S2s will steamroller the CM5s.

The CM range is almost 10 years old now and its time to go forward.

So? Try telling that to Electrocompaniet owners, users of Dynaudio Audience (replaced around 4 years ago) and can still cut it with modern speakers; Even the Pulse, which came out nearly 7 years ago.

 

[Vladimir]

Can't find that 3 star review. Link?

I haven't auditioned the new 685 s2 so I can't say if I'd like them better than the CM5. It is possible considering the new tweeter in 685 s2 is from the CM10.

Also can't find any FR graph online.

 

[stevebrock]

3 stars, 5 stars what a load of codswallop!

I reckon my old PM66/CD63 Ki Sig combo would trash a lot of stuff under £1k

 

[Covenanter]

Can't find that 3 star review. Link?

I haven't auditioned the new 685 s2 so I can't say if I'd like them better than the CM5. It is possible considering the new tweeter in 685 s2 is from the CM10.

Also can't find any FR graph online.

84dB is pretty insensitive and as Vlad says you are going to need a powerful amp to drive them. My Kefs are 89dB and that is a huge difference.

Chris

 

[plastic penguin]

Can't find that 3 star review. Link?

Had this conversation with Chebby some months ago (last year I think), they reviewed the CM5 with Tannoy Precision + others, and they deducted another star from the CM5s. Clearly WHFI haven't amended the site review.

 

[alchemist 1]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

Looks like the upgrade on the new 685 s2 is only in the tweeter, not the cabinet, midbass woofer or crossover. It has the tweeter driver including the mesh from CM10 (flagship of the CM range).

That is a sweet upgrade and I can't wait to see also the new stuff in the CM range.

Is a CM range upgrade imminent ?...............:?

 

[Vladimir]

Possibly. http://www.whathifi.com/review/b%2526w-cm5

 

[Vladimir]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

Looks like the upgrade on the new 685 s2 is only in the tweeter, not the cabinet, midbass woofer or crossover. It has the tweeter driver including the mesh from CM10 (flagship of the CM range).

That is a sweet upgrade and I can't wait to see also the new stuff in the CM range.

Is a CM range upgrade imminent ?...............:?

That is expected considering usual life cycle in the business is around 10 years.

 

[alchemist 1]

The 685 s2 level up is the CM5 considering they are both 6.5". The CM1 is only 5" in the mid/bass kevlar driver.

Looks like the upgrade on the new 685 s2 is only in the tweeter, not the cabinet, midbass woofer or crossover. It has the tweeter driver including the mesh from CM10 (flagship of the CM range).

That is a sweet upgrade and I can't wait to see also the new stuff in the CM range.

Is a CM range upgrade imminent ?...............:?

That is expected considering usual life cycle in the business is around 10 years.

Would be very interested if so.

Great sounding speakers when I had the CM1's, I still have my fs 700 stands. ..............

 

[Vladimir]

Few user comments posted in the WHF review of the 685 s2:

nirvy111 Thu, 8 May 2014, 8:09am

I heard these side by side with the B&W CM1's and thought the cm1's overall were better sounding. The 685 s2's had more bass but sounded a bit thin in the mids and highs compard to the cm1's and the bass wasn't as nuanced. The cm1's are bit more expensive but I think they have a sound that is more appealing. I didn't really hear anything from the 685 s2's that would make me want to buy them acutally, they weren't bad but they just didn't have anything that grabbed my attention over numerous similar priced speakers. I actually ended up getting the q acoustics concept 20's, I liked the sound of them for similar reasons I liked the cm1's and they're alot cheaper.

Reijer Sun, 11 May 2014, 3:01pm

Hi Nirvy111

I can imagine your listeningexperience with the CM1. What struck me, was the overall perfomance of the CM1. It loked like they sounded a lot softer and quieter than the 685s2 and the KEF's. I had to boost the output of the amp to get the same volumelevel out of the CM1 in comparison to the 685s2. And the lack of bas was to clear.

Lots of fun with your new monitors.

nirvy111 Sat, 24 May 2014, 7:58pm

Yeah I liked the presentation on the cm1's better and thought they sounded a bit more realistic but the 685 s2's did have a lot more bass, maybe under different conditions I might have liked them more. The q acoustics concept 20's I ended up getting are great though, they are rapidly becoming one of my favourite speaker purchases. They don't have a great deal of bass, a lot like the cm1's in that respect, but very nice sounding overall, huge soundstage, excellent focus and detail and half the cost of most of the other speakers I was considering.

Reijer Tue, 22 Apr 2014, 12:08pm

I've heard the new and the old 685 next to each other and the sound of the s2 is beter. When I heard them, the s2 was cold from the box and have played not single tune in the shop. So, if they have run in for a while the sound become beter and beter.

My wife and I think that the s2 sound's beter than de Kef Q300 and mayby even beter than the Kef R300. But, like more things in life, it's quite personal.

At home, i'm using an 30 year old amplifier, an NAD 3020 with 20W continue and thats powerfull enough. (I'm considering Arcam FMJ A19.....)

My father, who have Xanadu AW25 speakers, was impressed with the sound of the s2. Even the very low sound from an organ, with he loves, was perfectly played on the s2

Gr.

Reijer

Dordrecht, The Neherlands

 

[matthewpiano]

Apparently yes, a new CM range is on its way but, following the price rises for the 600 range, will be more expensive than the out-going models.

 

[alchemist 1]

Apparently yes, a new CM range is on its way but, following the price rises for the 600 range, will be more expensive than the out-going models.

So B&W are on the march...........8)

 

[boshk]

The B&W CM1 is of excellent quality and sound performance given the restraints it has of a small box and small mid/bass driver.

1) It is declared 84dB sensitivity but it is effectively something like 81dB and it needs a really good and powerfull amp to show its best. I got the Roksan Kandy K2 BT to drive mine and it is absolutely sublime (never go past 10 o'clock). A great alternative would be a big Rotel (RA-1570) or Electrocompaniet. A bigger amp of good quality but second hand could be a nice option as well. Maybe an Accuphase.

2) Do you have the original stands B&W FS700/CM? With those stands the CM1 is a completely different speaker, level up in performance.

:wave:

Maybe I should try CM1 with the RA-1570 but the price is nearly double of the PM6005/RA-12.

I dont have the FS700/CM stands, he was going to see if the boss would give me a bigger discount on the demo black stands depending on what colour I choose IF I went with the CM1s. There is a silver pair demo for 130pounds.

 

[Covenanter]

The B&W CM1 is of excellent quality and sound performance given the restraints it has of a small box and small mid/bass driver.

1) It is declared 84dB sensitivity but it is effectively something like 81dB and it needs a really good and powerfull amp to show its best. I got the Roksan Kandy K2 BT to drive mine and it is absolutely sublime (never go past 10 o'clock). A great alternative would be a big Rotel (RA-1570) or Electrocompaniet. A bigger amp of good quality but second hand could be a nice option as well. Maybe an Accuphase.

2) Do you have the original stands B&W FS700/CM? With those stands the CM1 is a completely different speaker, level up in performance.

:wave:

Maybe I should try CM1 with the RA-1570 but the price is nearly double of the PM6005/RA-12.

I dont have the FS700/CM stands, he was going to see if the boss would give me a bigger discount on the demo black stands depending on what colour I choose IF I went with the CM1s. There is a silver pair demo for 130pounds.

If the speakers require amplification outside your budget then maybe you should try different speakers! I've not heard these are anything special!

Chris

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi boshk

Used/discontinued market is also worth a look. Rotel's RA-1062 and the NAD C370 are excellent amps and ones which you should be able to find within your budget.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[boshk]

Hi boshk

Used/discontinued market is also worth a look. Rotel's RA-1062 and the NAD C370 are excellent amps and ones which you should be able to find within your budget.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I live in Hong Kong, so the used market here is pretty much non-existent.

 

[ID.]

Any amplifier can 'drive' a CM1 or similar.

What you loose with lower powered, cheaper amplifiers with compromised power supplies is control, head room, 'authority' etc etc.

Only you can determine whether the result is acceptable.

Often, only direct comparisons with more expensive amplifiers will highlight shortcomings though shortcomings there will be ultimately with something like the marantz you have mentioned. Why else would Marantz and others make more expensive amplifiers? - At some stage law of diminishing returns will kick in but entry level amplifiers are usually designed as a starting place, obviously.

regards

Pretty much this. I auditioned the CM1s with a number of amps when I was last purchasing a new setup, and I thought the CM1s sounded pretty good with the PM6003 (the current amp at the time) and even with the M-CR603, but I also heard them with better amps and they did bring so much more out of the CM1s. I could see someone being happy with the PM6005 CM1 pairing, but it would depend on their tastes, how loud they like to play their music and what their preferred musical genres are. For what it is worth, I chose the B&W 685 (series 1) over the CM1s because I preferred the scale that the 685s brought. They also seemed more effortless, because of the better match in terms of sensitivity.

(the fact that the extra scale of the 685s actually didn't really work in my living room is another story, so I eventually upgraded to PMC DB1i, but my amp is more competent that the 6003/6005).

 

[hifikrazy]

3 stars, 5 stars what a load of codswallop!

I reckon my old PM66/CD63 Ki Sig combo would trash a lot of stuff under £1k

Why is it always CD63 owners who think that few CD players introduced since is superior to it?