Not So Sure about Shure

[FahadAhmed]

Hi guys,

I am completely new with turntables. When I got my Audio Technica AT LP 120, it came without a cartridge. My HiFi dealer was kind enough to add an used Sansui Cartridge on a temporary basis which sounded ok, nothing great ofcourse. So i ordered a Shure M97xe from Amazon US. When I replaced the cartridge one good thing and one very bad thing happened. The good thing is the Shure is more forgiving towards occassional cracks and pops. The bad thing is, it is really quiet. I mean I have to increase the volume upto 75% just to get any decent sound out of it. Returning is not a viable option as I don't live in the US and will be too much of a hassle for $72. What should I do? Wait for it to break in (I don't know if that is even the case with cartridges) or get it exchanged from my dealer who has a new shipment of cartirdges coming in this Saturday? I am sure I have to throw in some extra cash for the exchange.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Are you using the USB ouptput or the Phono into the PM7004?

 

[FahadAhmed]

Are you using the USB ouptput or the Phono into the PM7004?

Hi,

I am using the phono into the PM 7004

 

[hoopsontoast]

Is the switch on the back of the TT on Line or Phono? Does it make any difference (with the volume turned down of course)

Also what input/setting is the phono cable plugged into?

 

[FahadAhmed]

Is the switch on the back of the TT on Line or Phono? Does it make any difference (with the volume turned down of course)

Also what input/setting is the phono cable plugged into?

Well right now the switch is in phono and the line is also into the "phono" input of the amp. I did try using the direct line with AT using its own Phono Amp the line into another AUX input oh the amp, it didn't sound any better. So i switched back to the postion it is in at the moment.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Make SURE all the wires to the cartridge are properly connected. Then you can be SURE that's not the problem.

The try switching back to the old cartridge. If the volume (not necessarily the quality) returns you can be SURE it's the SURE cartridge to blame.

Beyond that I'm not SURE I can add anything useful, and that's for SURE.

 

[drummerman]

Your cartridge has a 4.0mV output which, whilst not the highest possible, is about average for an MM.

I use it as well on one of my tables and it works fine through an integrated stage.

regards

 

[FahadAhmed]

Make SURE all the wires to the cartridge are properly connected. Then you can be SURE that's not the problem.

The try switching back to the old cartridge. If the volume (not necessarily the quality) returns you can be SURE it's the SURE cartridge to blame.

Beyond that I'm not SURE I can add anything useful, and that's for SURE.

Doublechecked. I am SURE

 

[FahadAhmed]

Your cartridge has a 4.0mV output which, whilst not the highest possible, is about average for an MM.

I use it as well on one of my tables and it works fine through an integrated stage.

regards

well turntables are quieter than cd players anyways (Thats what I have been told). So maybe a cartridge with a bit more output. I was looking at Ortfon Red.

 

[drummerman]

That would give you a little more output as well as a slightly leaner/clearer sound with more extended treble if it is anything like my ortofon.

I have heard the Shure will sound better when loaded differently but I dont have that facility. There is also a stylus available from Jico which reportedly lifts the performance of the cartridge substantially but at a price. None of this will increase output though.

I still find it puzzling that you have to use 75% of volume travel to obtain 'decent' level.

regards

 

[BigH]

Not sure what you mean increase volume by 75%, is that from 1W to 1.75W? Or are you turning your amp volume up from say 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock? Output on cartridges no doubt varies so I can understand that, same as speakers you need to turn the volume up or down depending on sensitivety. If it sounds OK at increased volume then is there a problem? Lower output on some amps can be a good thing as you maybe playing in the amps sweet spot which is often around 10-11 o'clock.

 

[FahadAhmed]

Not sure what you mean increase volume by 75%, is that from 1W to 1.75W? Or are you turning your amp volume up from say 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock? Output on cartridges no doubt varies so I can understand that, same as speakers you need to turn the volume up or down depending on sensitivety. If it sounds OK at increased volume then is there a problem? Lower output on some amps can be a good thing as you maybe playing in the amps sweet spot which is often around 10-11 o'clock.

My bad, should have been more precise. 75% means 75% of the maximum volume the Amp can hit (0% being no volume and 100% being the max). I usually listen to CDs at 25% - 35% and stream FLAC from my Laptop at 40% - 50% (I don't have decent DAC for streaming; I just use the Creative External Soundcard for that)

 

[BigH]

Not sure what you mean increase volume by 75%, is that from 1W to 1.75W? Or are you turning your amp volume up from say 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock? Output on cartridges no doubt varies so I can understand that, same as speakers you need to turn the volume up or down depending on sensitivety. If it sounds OK at increased volume then is there a problem? Lower output on some amps can be a good thing as you maybe playing in the amps sweet spot which is often around 10-11 o'clock.

My bad, should have been more precise. 75% means 75% of the maximum volume the Amp can hit (0% being no volume and 100% being the max). I usually listen to CDs at 25% - 35% and stream FLAC from my Laptop at 40% - 50% (I don't have decent DAC for streaming; I just use the Creative External Soundcard for that)

CDs on my old amp I always found to be louder than vinyl. But 75% of max volume does sound a bit excessive, is that loud?

 

[FahadAhmed]

Not sure what you mean increase volume by 75%, is that from 1W to 1.75W? Or are you turning your amp volume up from say 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock? Output on cartridges no doubt varies so I can understand that, same as speakers you need to turn the volume up or down depending on sensitivety. If it sounds OK at increased volume then is there a problem? Lower output on some amps can be a good thing as you maybe playing in the amps sweet spot which is often around 10-11 o'clock.

My bad, should have been more precise. 75% means 75% of the maximum volume the Amp can hit (0% being no volume and 100% being the max). I usually listen to CDs at 25% - 35% and stream FLAC from my Laptop at 40% - 50% (I don't have decent DAC for streaming; I just use the Creative External Soundcard for that)

CDs on my old amp I always found to be louder than vinyl. But 75% of max volume does sound a bit excessive, is that loud?

Its not that loud, its kind of OK when I am playing Electric Ladyland at 75%, i think my windows will shatter if i play my CDs at 75%.

 

[lindsayt]

Not sure what you mean increase volume by 75%, is that from 1W to 1.75W? Or are you turning your amp volume up from say 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock? Output on cartridges no doubt varies so I can understand that, same as speakers you need to turn the volume up or down depending on sensitivety. If it sounds OK at increased volume then is there a problem? Lower output on some amps can be a good thing as you maybe playing in the amps sweet spot which is often around 10-11 o'clock.

My bad, should have been more precise. 75% means 75% of the maximum volume the Amp can hit (0% being no volume and 100% being the max). I usually listen to CDs at 25% - 35% and stream FLAC from my Laptop at 40% - 50% (I don't have decent DAC for streaming; I just use the Creative External Soundcard for that)

I think that the problem here is that you are under the common mis-apprehension that the volume knob on your amp is calibrated so that when it is turned fully clockwise, that represents the maximum power output of the amp.

This is not the case. If you have a source such as a CD player or a professional record player that has its own built in phono and linestages you are likely to have a relatively high input voltage. This could typically result in your amp clipping into your speakers at anywhere from 8 o'clock to 3 o'clock. If you have a low output cartridge that is fed directly into the inbuilt phono stage in your amp, it's possible that you could turn your volume knob all the way up and still not clip.

At the end of the day, if your Shure sounds fine at 3 o'clock on your volume knob then that's fine. Just be careful when switching to your CD player that you don't blow your speakers by leaving the volume at the same position. If anything I'd say that it's good thing if vinyl sounds fine at that position as it means the total gain in your system is about right. To me it seems daft to have a system with too much gain where you have to chop the signal level back with a volume control.

In a vinyl system with an MC cartridge the signal will be boosted through 6 to 9 separate amplification stages - depending on the system. An MM cartridge will require 5 to 8 amplification stages. In hi-fi less is more, where you can get away with less.

 

[FahadAhmed]

Well did something drastic today. Traded in my turntable (along with the Shure) for Pro-ject essential. It is yet to break in but I think the "loudness" part aside, it sounds different, in a better way ofcourse. I didn't have to pay for it as it was cheaper than my AT (about 3 months old). So far, I am happy. A part of me still wonders whether better result was possible with the AT with a different cartridge.

 

[Anonymous]

Well did something drastic today. Traded in my turntable (along with the Shure) for Pro-ject essential. It is yet to break in but I think the "loudness" part aside, it sounds different, in a better way ofcourse. I didn't have to pay for it as it was cheaper than my AT (about 3 months old). So far, I am happy. A part of me still wonders whether better result was possible with the AT with a different cartridge.

Enjoy the music

Vinyl rules

 

[FahadAhmed]

Thanks Buddy!