Newcomer trying to Pick a first TT, and running into trouble!

[ae35unit]

Hi All
First off, im happy to receive a link to a thread where this has been discussed in detail.

Im new to Vinyl/Turntables, but not to HiFi in general. Currently i have a Yamaha A-670 amp, and am using an RCA switch to connect multiple devices. Its a compromise, as i have a Marantz pm66SE which i have posted about before, but it needs repair. My intention is to fix it but for now, my A-670 is doing the business for me. Cant praise the 670 enough in fact, but thats another post ..

My wife and I have wanted a turntable for a while, and iv been doing some research online. I had initially zoned in on several different models including the Audio Technica AT-LP60, and 70 - also considered several models from Lenco (L30, L85), Angel Horn (HP-H002) and Fluance R80. On another rather popular sub forum (unsure if im allowed to say the name here), i ran into trouble when almost everyone to a man described all of the above as TRASH. It was quite a difficult experience, but inbetween the insults and general shade throwing, i did extract some knoweledge about the need for pitch control, a counterweight, and removable cartridge.

I went back to the drawing board and came up with the Crosly T150 - im aware the speakers are garbage, as even the most optimistic reviews pointed this out. I consider this a non issue because i wont be using them. I would probably end up giving them away tbh. But it does have the adjustable tone arm, removable cartridge, picth control, etc - it also has both Line, and Phono out. Which will suit me fine given its likely to be used with both the Yamaha and the Marantz (Marantz has a phono stage of course).

Again, I received a lot of shade, and very little constructive discussion on this model, other than - trash, avoid, junk.

Genuinely looking for some constructive info on a viable TT for someone on a budget. The requirements would have to include the Line out (inbuilt preamp) so as to be useable with the Yamaha for now.

Id appreciate any and all advice that i can get - budget up to perhaps 200 euro - The T150 can be had second hand for 80 which is obviously appealing - do any of the models i mentioned hit the spot in ANY way?

Sincere Thanks in advance

Liam

 

[daytona600]

Genuinely looking for some constructive info on a viable TT

£200 Project / Rega / Technics Pick up a good used unit or New
£239 Project Primary E

Avoid all the chinese " Trash " as this will end up as landfill very quickly
Sound rubbish & ruin your records & offer shocking value for money

 

[RoA]

If you are that strapped for cash I would honestly not bother with vinyl.

 

[Entrigo]

I'd say avoid the naysayers. You can definitely find a decent turntable for €200 if you buy used.

Look on the usual classifieds sites for anything from Rega or Pro-ject if you like the minimalist and fully manual type and have a decent phono stage (don't know the Yamaha A-670). Alternatively, a little more "automated" you can find lots of Dual 505 or similar - my brother has one he found for £100 and he's quite happy with it.

Alternatively, if your amp doesn't have a phono (or it's not good) you can look for an Audio Technica AT-LP5 - pretty good direct drive (no belt) TT with built in phono preamp which costs £350 new, so should be able to find some used units around your budget.

Staying in the direct drive, you could look at older Technics models as well.

But if you are even only semi-serious about vinyl, I would really steer clear of the Crosleys and similar.

 

[daytona600]

LP120XUSB Chinese copy or the Original iCON

 

[Al ears]

If you are that strapped for cash I would honestly not bother with vinyl.

Well said,vinyl cannot be done on a budget unfortunately.
If you are and do not already own a shedload of vinyl it is best avoided, much like the Crossley and their ilk.

 

[Entrigo]

Well said,vinyl cannot be done on a budget unfortunately.
If you are and do not already own a shedload of vinyl it is best avoided, much like the Crossley and their ilk.

Pretty elitist view and incorrect in my opinion .

Many people do do vinyl on a budget: there's loads of decent turntables to be found used and equally loads of cheap second hand vinyl to be found. And a vinyl collection can be built bit by bit.

 

[Gray]

I'd say avoid the naysayers. You can definitely find a decent turntable for €200 if you buy used.

That's all well and good - maybe if someone already has a fairly large collection of vinyl that they need to play.

But the naysayers may be thinking about the overall cost of vinyl - especially for someone new to it.

Last time I was in HMV, the same album was £5.99 on CD, £29.99 on vinyl.
Buy just 7 of that type of vinyl and suddenly you've exceeded the cost of your £200 turntable - and the naysayers start to sound like the sensible ones 😉

If you've got the funds (and desire) to pay the silly price of vinyl, then it probably makes sense to buy the sort of turntable that will do it full justice.

Nothing to do with being elitist, I say post #3 is the best advice.

 

[Entrigo]

That's all well and good - maybe if someone already has a fairly large collection of vinyl that they need to play.

But the naysayers may be thinking about the overall cost of vinyl - especially for someone new to it.

Last time I was in HMV, the same album was £5.99 on CD, £29.99 on vinyl.
Buy just 7 of that type of vinyl and suddenly you've exceeded the cost of your £200 turntable - and the naysayers start to sound like the sensible ones 😉

If you've got the funds (and desire) to pay the silly price of vinyl, then it probably makes sense to buy the sort of turntable that will do it full justice.

Nothing to do with being elitist, I say post #3 is the best advice.

Well, telling someone that vinyl is not for them just because they are after a reasonably priced turntable seems the epitome of vinyl-elitism... Not mentioning not very friendly and beside the point /the question asked.

First of all, as I said before, one doesn't need to spend £30 a pop on a new album. You can find plenty of cheap used copies of pretty much any album on earth... And build up your collection bit by bit.

Secondly, there is no indication that the OP is "strapped for cash". They have set a budget for their turntable, assuming from that they can't afford to buy records is both a non sequitur and unfair. I have quite a few friends who have cheapish turntables but buy records regularly. Not everyone cares about "audiophile" equipment -many people just want to listen to music.

And even if the OP were genuinely on a very tight budget, who are we to tell them what they can or can't do?

I appreciate a lot of forum users are Hi-Fi snobs, but this doesn't make it right

 

[Gray]

Well, telling someone that vinyl is not for them just because they are after a reasonably priced turntable seems the epitome of vinyl-elitism... Not mentioning not very friendly and beside the point /the question asked.

First of all, as I said before, one doesn't need to spend £30 a pop on a new album. You can find plenty of cheap used copies of pretty much any album on earth... And build up your collection bit by bit.

Secondly, there is no indication that the OP is "strapped for cash". They have set a budget for their turntable, assuming from that they can't afford to buy records is both a non sequitur and unfair. I have quite a few friends who have cheapish turntables but buy records regularly. Not everyone cares about "audiophile" equipment -many people just want to listen to music.

And even if the OP were genuinely on a very tight budget, who are we to tell them what they can or can't do?

I appreciate a lot of forum users are Hi-Fi snobs, but this doesn't make it right

I take all the points you make.
I'm pleased to say there are very few (if any) snobs on this forum - just people that give realistic and honest advice.

After all, I don't consider you a snob for telling him to avoid Crosley 😉👍

You point out that he might be on a very tight budget.
If that's true - then the more honest the advice, the better.

(And no need to tell me about enjoying music on a low budget.
I once changed a stylus for an old biddy in an old people's home.
You wouldn't give her a tenner for her system - but I can assure you she got as much (or more) pleasure from her limited vinyl collection, than some that have spent thousands).

 

[Entrigo]

Haha well there's snobbery and there's basic acceptable standards. Leaving the audiophile vs consumer debate aside, Crosley, House of Marley and the like are just not Hi-Fi.

Actually, both my sisters in law bought similar record players despite my advice to buy an entry level record player and active speakers instead, so I went full snob on them and refused to have anything to do with it - and have not discussed since 😆

In terms of realistic and honest advice, I agree that is mostly the case on this forum - as well as generally friendly and helpful. Which is also why I was a bit taken aback by the advice given on this thread. Which, again, I strongly dispute, based on both direct/indirect experience. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[matthewpianist]

I bought my AT-LP5x brand new for £299. It offers a heck of a lot, and the Rega P3 that I also own is currently sitting unused. If you can stretch to it, the LP-5x is a great buy. That's a Direct Drive, but there's also the belt drive AT-LPW30, at a lower price.

For even less, there is the Pro-ject E1, and that would be a very good buy. No bells and whistles, but you don't need them. There's certainly no need for pitch control if you simply want to enjoy some LPs, and as long as the arm is set up properly it won't damage your records.

Second hand can net a good buy, but there's plenty of pitfalls, especially if you don't know what you are looking for. Anything decent, that has perhaps seen at least a basic service, is going to cost you a similar amount to the new options above.

 

[camcroft]

I bought my AT-LP5x brand new for £299. It offers a heck of a lot, and the Rega P3 that I also own is currently sitting unused. If you can stretch to it, the LP-5x is a great buy. That's a Direct Drive, but there's also the belt drive AT-LPW30, at a lower price.

For even less, there is the Pro-ject E1, and that would be a very good buy. No bells and whistles, but you don't need them. There's certainly no need for pitch control if you simply want to enjoy some LPs, and as long as the arm is set up properly it won't damage your records.

Second hand can net a good buy, but there's plenty of pitfalls, especially if you don't know what you are looking for. Anything decent, that has perhaps seen at least a basic service, is going to cost you a similar amount to the new options above.

Taken from comment 2 .
Avoid all the chinese " Trash " as this will end up as landfill very quickly
Sound rubbish & ruin your records & offer shocking value for money

 

[camcroft]

I bought my AT-LP5x brand new for £299. It offers a heck of a lot, and the Rega P3 that I also own is currently sitting unused. If you can stretch to it, the LP-5x is a great buy. That's a Direct Drive, but there's also the belt drive AT-LPW30, at a lower price.

For even less, there is the Pro-ject E1, and that would be a very good buy. No bells and whistles, but you don't need them. There's certainly no need for pitch control if you simply want to enjoy some LPs, and as long as the arm is set up properly it won't damage your records.

Second hand can net a good buy, but there's plenty of pitfalls, especially if you don't know what you are looking for. Anything decent, that has perhaps seen at least a basic service, is going to cost you a similar amount to the new options above.

Didn't you used to use Thorens turntables?

 

[matthewpianist]

Didn't you used to use Thorens turntables?

Years and years ago. It was an old TD150 MkII AB. It was nice, but needed a lot of TLC, and the Thorens arm was pretty poor. I gave up on vinyl for some time.

I've been through all sorts over the years - three different Regas, an SL-1210 MkV, Pro-ject The Classic, Pioneer PL12D, Michell Tecnodec with Tecnoarm and Sumiko Evo II, Goldring Lenco GL-75, Pro-ject Debut... Plenty of unnecessary swapping to be frank, and without the budget or the inclination to get too bogged down in cartridge swapping etc. I've done plenty of box swapping throughout the rest of the system too, and I've certainly wasted money over the years. I'll keep the two turntables I have now, and the Rega will head up a second system, but I won't buy another.

 

[camcroft]

Years and years ago. It was an old TD150 MkII AB. It was nice, but needed a lot of TLC, and the Thorens arm was pretty poor. I gave up on vinyl for some time.

I've been through all sorts over the years - three different Regas, an SL-1210 MkV, Pro-ject The Classic, Pioneer PL12D, Michell Tecnodec with Tecnoarm and Sumiko Evo II, Goldring Lenco GL-75, Pro-ject Debut... Plenty of unnecessary swapping to be frank, and without the budget or the inclination to get too bogged down in cartridge swapping etc. I've done plenty of box swapping throughout the rest of the system too, and I've certainly wasted money over the years. I'll keep the two turntables I have now, and the Rega will head up a second system, but I won't buy another.

My point is with your experience of sound and turntables you have made do with a lesser turntable and you are happy with it so it shows that some Chinese turntables are acceptable. Yes AT is Japanese but has most of it's turntables are made in China. I find my AT turntable to be of a decent quality and doesn't justify to be shot down as Chinese trash. My main turntable is fully manual but I do like the feature of direct drive on my AT turntable easy start easy stop.

 

[Entrigo]

I bought my AT-LP5x brand new for £299. It offers a heck of a lot, and the Rega P3 that I also own is currently sitting unused. If you can stretch to it, the LP-5x is a great buy. That's a Direct Drive, but there's also the belt drive AT-LPW30, at a lower price.

For even less, there is the Pro-ject E1, and that would be a very good buy. No bells and whistles, but you don't need them. There's certainly no need for pitch control if you simply want to enjoy some LPs, and as long as the arm is set up properly it won't damage your records.

Second hand can net a good buy, but there's plenty of pitfalls, especially if you don't know what you are looking for. Anything decent, that has perhaps seen at least a basic service, is going to cost you a similar amount to the new options above.

Agree wholeheartedly. I had the LP-5 before my current Technics and it was a really good turntable for pretty little money.

 

[matthewpianist]

My point is with your experience of sound and turntables you have made do with a lesser turntable and you are happy with it so it shows that some Chinese turntables are acceptable. Yes AT is Japanese but has most of it's turntables are made in China. I find my AT turntable to be of a decent quality and doesn't justify to be shot down as Chinese trash. My main turntable is fully manual but I do like the feature of direct drive on my AT turntable easy start easy stop.

Agreed. It's too easy to shoot things down in flames without trying them first. I would never suggest that my AT has the same performance potential as the Michell (for example), but getting the most out of something like that takes a lot of time and financial investment. The AT is plug-and-play, has a decent built-in phono stage (though not as good as the one in the Mission amp), and although the arm doesn't have quite the solidity of the RB-303 on my Rega, it does an excellent job and is more accommodating of a wider range of cartridges.

There are some rubbish turntables out there (Crossley and the like) but also some that offer the best that can be expected for the money.

 

[camcroft]

Agree wholeheartedly. I had the LP-5 before my current Technics and it was a really good turntable for pretty little money.

I believe that the LP-8 is in another league. I can see from your signiture that you have RigB'd your cartridges that has also improved the sound of my AT turntable not many people know on this forum about the RigB and would be quick to dismiss them.

 

[matthewpianist]

I believe that the LP-8 is in another league.

I'd be looking towards Technics by that price, personally.

 

[camcroft]

I'd be looking towards Technics by that price, personally.

I totally agree I am on the AT forum and the guy who runs it has had the 5 and 8 but now is using a Technics turntable new but not sure which model.

 

[matthewpianist]

I totally agree I am on the AT forum and the guy who runs it has had the 5 and 8 but now is using a Technics turntable new but not sure which model.

Their DDs are rock solid. The 1210 was one of the best turntables I ever had, and the one I should have kept.

 

[Entrigo]

I believe that the LP-8 is in another league. I can see from your signiture that you have RigB'd your cartridges that has also improved the sound of my AT turntable not many people know on this forum about the RigB and would be quick to dismiss them.

I was honestly quite sceptical myself. Only went for it to try and quench my upgrade itch - it genuinely does make a big difference to the sound of the cartridge... I ended up buying an AT33PTGii from Simon Clark straight after (as the price was just too good) and have been happily swapping the two around since.

 

[Entrigo]

I'd be looking towards Technics by that price, personally.

Yeah, looks good but reviews seem a bit mixed and and it's the same price as the SL1500C which is genuinely a cracking deck - especially if you have a solid and vibration-free base to play it on: the tonearm is reportedly the same used on the 1200GRs and even on the 1300G. And despite having an inferior motor etc, it actually has the same wow and flutter and rumble measurements as the two more expensive siblings...

A lot of bang for your buck there (and the reason why I decided against splashing an extra £2k on the 1300G and waiting another year and treat myself to the 1200G)!

 

[camcroft]

I was honestly quite sceptical myself. Only went for it to try and quench my upgrade itch - it genuinely does make a big difference to the sound of the cartridge... I ended up buying an AT33PTGii from Simon Clark straight after (as the price was just too good) and have been happily swapping the two around since.

Simon is a very nice guy. Do you go on the RigB forum I don't recall seeing your profile name or do you use another one. I do I use my proper name on there.