Newbie Setup Help Requested (decisions made and story updated)

[bewater]

****UPDATE 1 DEC 2015*****

I was wondering about your choice. Thanks for letting us know. Now, also let us know how everything sounds .

So actually, here's the story thus far. My current set-up is Tidal (trial subscription) --> AVR (Denon Avr-x3200w) --> Parasound a23 --> ATC SCM 7 mkiii and REL T5. The Parasound was a later addition. My dealer advised that I should really pick out the speakers first, and although the ATC is notoriously difficult to drive, I can always upgrade and as a beginner, I may not hear the difference. Unfortunately for my wallet, I could immediately tell that the ATCs were not performing as well as driven by the AVR, rather than my dealer's set up. I wasn't sure it was because of the analytical ability or the lack of power (my avr is rated at 105w into 8 ohms) -- so when my dealer recommended me just to add a power amp may solve my problem for now (rather than going for a integrated amp), I was skeptical because the a23 is 125 into 8 ohms, which is not that much more powerful .... However, I happened to be able to borrow from a good friend a parasound a23 (on a long term basis) a few days later and boy, it made a difference (can someone give me a scientific reason why only 20 watts extra from a dedicated power amp would make difference? Anyways, now I am thinking what's my next step. I use by xbox360 as the CD player ---> so I need a CD player, a network stream (better DAC than the Denon) and a pre-amp. Budget around 1k -1.5k. Any recommendation as to priorities and brands? used is fine. I am also seeking out a cheaper set of center speaker and surround speaker to round out my 5.1 (since I am 70% music 30% movie I think I can go cheaper). Hopefully can get this done under $400 if I go used. ************************END OF UPDATE*************************************

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First of all, would really appreciate all the help I can get from this community. *Edit -- thanks for response and added additional info. re: location/space

Main Questions: (1) Floorstanders vs. Standmounds + sub; (2) any other thoughts welcomed! I am a newbie at this, currently own a meiocre sounding HTIB and looking to upgrade as I am moving to a new apartment, and I don't think the HTIB is good enough for music.

Physical Space : rectangular Living Room which is 18.5 ft long (5.8m) * 8.9 ft wide (2.7m) * 8.5' (2.6m) height. Acutally the listening/TV/entertainment area would be right side of the living room -- will try to space the speakers 7 ft to 8 ft apart with the right speaker 1 ft from the corner, and factoring the sofa and 1 ft of space behind the speakers, I'd be sitting about 7.5 ft from the speakers/TV. No hallways in the living room (2 closable doors). Left - half would be the diniing room area. The walls would be concrete walls. No other forsseeable obstuction. I am located in Hong Kong right now.

Main Purpose: 60% music; 20% movies and 20% video games. I would like nice sound for movies but it's my belief that one should go to the cinema for true enjoyment anyways so I am focusing on the music part. However, just for completeness looking at a 5.1 set-up.

Type of Music: Pop (e.g.,Bruno Mars/Maroon 5/Ed Sheeran/ Sam Smith); Jazz (e.g., Miles Davis); Hip-hop/rap (e.g., Jay-Z; Kanye West) (in short, I like my bass but I also need the treble for the vocals/instrumentals)

Budget: ideally not over US$2.5 - 3k for entire set but can be convinced to upscale slightly more.

My Current Thoughts/Dillema: For simplicity, I am thinking about purchasing an AV Receiver first; e.g., Denon XAVR3100w @US$499 (or XAVR4100 or Maranz (I am guessing I can always add amps later as I get more expertise in this). Suggestions welcomed on receivers. I know I need to add an amp for best audio but I think that can be a subsequent step?

I have read that I should focus my fire power on the 2 front sepakers if I care about the most is music. I have auditioned the B&W 685S2 based on strong review and may be due to the space in the showroom, I don't think the bass was strong enough for my taste. I talked to the salesman and he said that if I like bass I should go for a floorstander. I liked both the B&W684s2 and KEF Q700 for the fuller sound over the standmounds, but [a] I remain unconvinced about the bass for hip-hop tracks and (b) I am concerned that my space would be too small (for sound reasons). I also auditioned a pair of ELACs, Cambridge audio standmounts.

Then I stumbled upon the KEF LS50 (@US$1.26k), which I really like (over the B&W 685s2). I think i can pair it with a good sub? Or with that money (money needed for the stands + sub) I can get a good floorstander. Or I can go for one class lower standmounts e.g, KEF Q300, which I think is nice too. If sub, any recommendation for a good subwoofer?

Lastly any recommendation for a center speaker and rearspeakers? I think will go cheaper for rearspeakers....

Thanks for reading.

 

[Leeps]

In the room shape and size you describe I would recommend standmounts and sub. You'll have much more control over the bass within your room. One problem with demos in a shop is that the sound, particularly the bass, can be very different to listening to the same equipment in your home.

I have a rectangular room with the speakers firing across the shorter dimension and it's a very reflective acoustically difficult room. I find that the level of bass control offered on my AV receiver absolutely necessary. I have a full equalizer that I can tweak any part of the frequency range that's causing the problem (which is usually the bass), I have the AVR's room correction system, so I can hop in and out of Pure Direct (that just plays is straight) and Direct (which includes room correction and engages the sub for 2.0 channel) and finally I have the volume control on the sub itself. Also the amplifier in the subwoofer is much more powerful than my AVR, so it's just better at doing bass anyway than my AVR.

Although I've considered going back to straight stereo at times, I know that the lack of flexibility (and often the lack of any tone controls or bass management) would be a big problem in my room.

I was playing an album yesterday and was reading an equipment review that mentioned a particular track that the reviewer liked, so I selected the track on Tidal and was overwhelmed by the bass in the mix (the bass presence was just fine on the previous album, so it was just the way it was recorded). I was glad I had the flexibility to control it. Having said all that, I'm not a lover of too much bass, so you might want to up the bass rather than tame it, but at least a set-up like this offers that kind of flexibility.

For what it's worth, I know many people consider AVRs by Denon/Marantz, Arcam, Anthem and even Onkyo to be among the more musical AVR's but I find that for jazz (which accounts for a fair proportion of my music play time), that the Pioneer is spot-on. Piano timbre especially is perfect (I've had the greatest success with Piano timbre with Monitor Audio speakers that have the Gold tweeter; the Radius, Silver and Apex ranges).

And finally, for a room your size,, I'd take a serious look at the Monitor Audio Apex range. Don't be put off by their diminutive size. They're very capable speakers for music and movies. Their cabinets are beautifully inert, allowing the drivers to sing without any cabinet resonance or boxiness. They're not cheap, so you could start with a pair of A10's and a sub (the sub doesn't have to be the MA Apex) and grow your system as needed from there over time.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

I would take a high quaility sub and standmount over a floorstander (echoing leeps) You really do need a big room for floorstanders dosn't matter if the floorstander is small or not.

To get a good response your looking at 50cm-70cm away from all walls (some require even more 1m+) and even then it might not sound right. If you have a suppended floor i would defo recomend standmounts with heavy weight stand to stop the bass going through the floor. In turn bringing the relex port closer to ear level and improving the mids and definition of the sound.

I would even argue against getting a complete 5.1 Especaliy if it's open plan living. Which is one thinking i don't think you mention in your description above. Aim for speaker with a wide sound stage. like the kefs you mentioned.

But get the 2.1ch right and surround will just slide into place with out to much problem

Looks like your from the states?! have you thought about demoing the newer SVS ranges? as i understand it they offer a very good buy and exchange program in the states. And i think they have just released a new range of speaker that fall well with your budget.

And have you thought about any of the harman group speakers Revel, JBL and infinity Revel especaliy are supposed to be pretty good.

In regrads to whats first I would get the speaker right first before buying the amp. But sometimes it can be a chicken and egg situation.

In reagards to rear speakers get same speakers all the way round.... Kef LS50 have a surround package that you can buy and that sounds pretty impressive. What ever you do dont mix brands personally it looks and sounds jaring

best wishes

 

[bewater]

Thank you for the help.

Just to update you guys, I settled on an ATC SCM7 after a long search. Then I also bought a REL T5.

Some of the decision making was affected by my better half's concern over aesthetics and size (I would have have gotten and the SCM 11 and a bigger sub if not)

 

[gasolin]

Ever thought of active speakers like Yamah HS8 and a preamp (you don't ned a subwoofer with yamaha HS8)

For good bass minimum 6½" woofer

If you buy passive speakers make shure you get a good powerfull amp since it's easier to get good bass from midsized bookshelf speaker with a power full amp then a amp around 50 watt

If you don't wan't to go cracy (price) a pair of dali zensor 7 (have the bass the smaller ones might need for energeyic top) and one of the bigger nad amps like the C356BEE or mabye marantz PM8005