New vinyl, buying and surface noise

[marb67]

I have started buying some new vinyl of late, only the best quality and am really impressed by the sound of the heavier records. However, considering I pay almost £20 a go I am not impressed with some of the clicks and sctraces I hear from new on first play. I have given the record a clean with my new machine and I can still hear some noise here and there. The stylus is new and clean and I did see marks on the vinyl.

Has anyone actually taken an LP back because they are not happy with the quality ? I got this from HMV. It's probably going to be fine if I give it another couple of cleans but really you would expect clean out of the shrink wrap.

Also, does anyone know the absolute best, cheapest online or high street place to buy new vinyl, perhaps with buy so many and get a discount etc ?

Cheers.

 

[Al ears]

I have started buying some new vinyl of late, only the best quality and am really impressed by the sound of the heavier records. However, considering I pay almost £20 a go I am not impressed with some of the clicks and sctraces I hear from new on first play. I have given the record a clean with my new machine and I can still hear some noise here and there. The stylus is new and clean and I did see marks on the vinyl.

Has anyone actually taken an LP back because they are not happy with the quality ? I got this from HMV. It's probably going to be fine if I give it another couple of cleans but really you would expect clean out of the shrink wrap.

Also, does anyone know the absolute best, cheapest online or high street place to buy new vinyl, perhaps with buy so many and get a discount etc ?

Cheers.

Some vinyl can be noisy from new but not that many these days. Some have residues left on from pressing so I normally give mine a quick clean anyway. Actually the best thing for cleaning vinyl is the stylus itself. Give them a couple of plays and see what happens. If still very noisy take it back.

The cheapest method of buying new is online, just hoogl the album and see what crops up. Norman Records are good but avoid snvinyl like the plague. ;-)

 

[MajorFubar]

It's highly possible you're striving for the unattainable. You're always going to get the odd pop and click, and surface noise from the record itself. It's part of the 'experience', but if you've been brought up with CD players and other digital players that give you 'jet black' backgrounds, the sort of dark sludgy brown background you get from records, accompanied by the occasional pop and click, can be a culture shock.

 

[BigH]

What cartridge do you have? Some pick up surface noise more than others.

I've heard good things about Juno records but not used them myself.

 

[bigfish786]

Some carts are more susceptible to pops and clicks.

Static is an issue, I found using an acrylic mat reduced it

cheap viny can be had at :-

juno, Dodax, EMP, music magpie, Amazon, what records, to name a few.

Shop around, you can find good deals.

 

[thescarletpronster]

I've been having huge problems with new records. I must do a tot up, but it's probably approaching 50% of the records I've bought over the past few years which have been faulty or sub-standard, although I've not returned all of those. The main sources of problems have been US-pressed and coloured vinyl, although this isn't exclusive. I've identified three pressing plants which seem to be responsible for the best-pressed records I have, but a lot of the bad pressings don't have any identifying marks on them - wonder why!

I've been meaning for a while to try to resuscitate the old thread Praise & shame - rate your new vinyl here, which was to discuss just this, as I've had so many problems I'd like to discuss whether this is a shared experience. The owner of our local record shop says the majority of returns of vinyl records have been from just 4 people (including me), but I really don't believe I'm being over-fussy.

If there's any interest in discussing problems with new records, let's get that thread going again. I'd find it really helpful to be able to discuss this more widely. At times I feel like giving up and going back to CD.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Background noise will be governed mainly by two things - the state of the record, and the quality of the deck. Better quality decks produce less background noise. It's a fact. Very easy to demonstrate.

The deck can only be as good as the record. If the record isn't clean, you will get the odd crackle and pop, but I've heard many clean records where I've listened to track after track without a single pop, and some of those albums are decades old.

Give it time. You'll adjust to it, and you'll soon find you won't even notice little clicks and pops anyway. It's the same as watching a projector on a slatted wooden wall. The slats are blatantly obvious, but once you get immersed in the film, you find yourself momentarily forgetting they're there. Obviously that's a bit of an excessive comparison, as the slatted wall is there all the time.

If you find yourself listening for clicks and pops, put a CD on. If you're noticing them that much, you're not listening to the music.

To answer your question, if the noise is excessive, take it back. But factor in the deck you have first - if you're using something like a Crossley, you're going to become rather good friends with background noise

 

[thescarletpronster]

[deleted my own post as it was irrelevant]

 

[marb67]

I was certainly bought up on pops and clicks right back to the days of a radiogram so it's no revelation to me. However, having since upgraded my Technics SLD202 with an AT440MLB, with existing 22 year old Rotel 930 amp, JPW AP2 speakers, I have found (not initially as it wasn't bedded in) a stunning difference in sound quality. Even compared to CD versions side by side and heard the difference. Warmer, smoother, spaccious ,more 3 dimensional sound etc etc. So I know it is caipable of playing some of my albums, old and new, to an astonoshingly clean sound quality. I also invested in a rubber cork matt from Amazon which has eradicated static 100%. Coupled with anti-static sleeves, a record cleaning machine and I am sorted. I do wonder however, what would be the next step up that will improve the sound quality a few more notches.

Thanks for the links folks.

 

[thescarletpronster]

Background noise will be governed mainly by two things - the state of the record, and the quality of the deck. Better quality decks produce less background noise. ...

Give it time. You'll adjust to it, and you'll soon find you won't even notice little clicks and pops anyway. ...

The records I bought in the 1980s and 90s sound wonderful on my deck, even those which I have played hundreds of times. Many of the records I have bought in the past few years sound far less good. To me, the problem is in the quality of pressing at the moment, not in my inexperience listening to records or to a change in my expectations of what records should sound like.

It's no surprise that pressing quality should have suffered, as most of the expertise was lost in the gap between the early 90s and late 00s when barely any records were pressed and most plants closed down. Expertise, and equipment. Now there is a surge in record-buying, every pressing plant is apparently stretched to the limits pressing records on equipment most of which is past its useful life and being kept going on a kind of life-support, with no spare parts even available. And I assume that at the volumes at which they are trying to produce records, quality control has been reduced at many plants.

The fact that 49% of respondents in a recent survey of people who had bought a record in the past month said they hadn't even opened it suggests that for many people quality control isn't an issue as they are buying an object to possess and collect (or to invest in and sell on at a later date) rather than a medium for enjoying music.

The best plants I have identified are Optimal Media (Germany), MPO (France) and, to a slightly lesser extent, GZ Media (Czech Republic). Records pressed by these plants rarely have pressing faults, surface noise or scratches. There are some hints in the links how to identify pressings from these companies.

 

[marb67]

Playing it again and there is def some scratches in the vinyl that are audable. There is also a slight flaw in the vinyl with a dimple so it's going back. The trouble is, how do I prove I bought it from HMV as I only have a receipt. There is no identification on the record to link it to HMV. It's a strange one.

 

[BigH]

Playing it again and there is def some scratches in the vinyl that are audable. There is also a slight flaw in the vinyl with a dimple so it's going back. The trouble is, how do I prove I bought it from HMV as I only have a receipt. There is no identification on the record to link it to HMV. It's a strange one.

Receipt should be sufficent.

 

[marb67]

Funy enough I am looking at my brand new Magical Mystery Tour album my wife bought me from HMV as a Chrsitmas present and it looks as though it has smears and scuffs from being dragged accross a road surface. Thankfuly it plays ok but no amount of cleaning with the machine can remove these strange blemishes.

 

[marb67]

So I take the high quality 180grm Talk Talk back to HMV and they swap it for the only one in the store. On inspection it didn't look great with a light scratch mark but they said I could try it and bring it back. Tried it and it clicks more than Castanets. Not loud but loud enough to be annoying. Again, I can see a small dimple in the vinyl which smacks of inconsistency in quality. I think I will just give up on this album, lovely as it is musically and opt for the cd.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

So I take the high quality 180grm Talk Talk back to HMV and they swap it for the only one in the store. On inspection it didn't look great with a light scratch mark but they said I could try it and bring it back. Tried it and it clicks more than Castanets. Not loud but loud enough to be annoying. Again, I can see a small dimple in the vinyl which smacks of inconsistency in quality. I think I will just give up on this album, lovely as it is musically and opt for the cd.

Patience and tolerance is required. Pops and clicks can be annoying but it's all part of the vinyl experience I'm afraid. Try wet cleaning it with a Knosti or similar, plus new sleeve, it might work or not. Many of my albums have dimples in and they sound just fine, I've also got some badly rim-warped LP's and these play just fine too. If all this faffing around isn't for you then just stick to the silver discs instead.

 

[marb67]

It's more than pops and clicks. I have bought a few new vinyl that are very queit and clean, as well as old vinyl. I have a wet cleaner in the form of a new Project vacuum cleaning machine which does an excellent job but to no avail with this record.

 

[BigH]

Pressings vary quite a bit, so maybe try to get a different one. Try a different shop. The cd version is pretty good I gather or you can get a hi-res download for £14.

 

[thescarletpronster]

Why not buy an original copy? Unless it's Laughing Stock, which tends to be a bit pricey. You should be able to pick up an original of any other Talk Talk album in decent condition for the same price (Spirit of Eden) or less (earlier albums) as a new one.

 

[marb67]

AWhy not buy an original copy? Unless it's Laughing Stock, which tends to be a bit pricey. You should be able to pick up an original of any other Talk Talk album in decent condition for the same price (Spirit of Eden) or less (earlier albums) as a new one.

I have considered that but not sure if the fidelity would be as good as the new pressings. The first copy I bought in Liverpool HMV and the second I exchanged for was Warrington. Today it was taken back to Chester so it's travelled around.

the cd would be a good option as cheaper than a hi res download, and cd is better resolution.

 

[thescarletpronster]

I have considered that but not sure if the fidelity would be as good as the new pressings.

Why wouldn't it be? There's been no technological advance in mastering/pressing of records since the 1970s, as far as I'm aware, and there was a lot more expertise around in those days.

I meant to post this the other day, but didn't get around to it: I was listening to the Wolf Alice album, My Love Is Cool. There's a fair bit of annoying noise on my copy, but it was far less bad than the one I returned, so I'd decided to accept it. I thought to myself: 'Even though the pressing isn't perfect, at least the mastering is all right.' When that record finished I pulled out a record I haven't listened to for years: The Pop Group's For How Long Must We Tolerate Mass-Murder? I was stunned at the difference: the bass drum really kicked like a real bass drum does, and there was so much more separation. This was one of the first records ever released by Rough Trade, when it was little more than a DIY label attached to a record shop, so not a big outfit spending lots of money on recording, mastering and pressing. It was mastered and cut by Porky, natch. Just sounded fabulous and live in comparison with the Wolf Alice record I'd just played.

 

[marb67]

I take your point about older vinyl sounding far better. I think I will still continue to buy older copies of 60's and 70's, rather than the new masters if I can, and for a good price. The new Talk Talk pressing interested me because care has been taken with the new mastering and pressing "hi resolution audio transfer" by John Cope. Again, the mastering and quality are stunning but the materiel it is pressed on not so. There was a uniform click right through most of one side that was obviously a sctrach.

I have a Moody Blues 1968 pressing of "Threshold Of A Dream" which all round is a nice copy, especially the sleeve and booklet. The disc is good but I can see a few surface scratches. Considering how it looks it plays incredibly well and the sound has such a depth and three dimensional sound. Crystal clear. A lovely mastering. It's also nice to have a tangeable experience of something from that time. A bit like viewing colour slides becuase you know what you are holding was actually at that time and place and not just a digital copy.

Other new pressings I have that sound great Can "Tago Mago", Scott Walker 4 (a steal at £9.99 in hmv),Love "Forever Changes" ,Talking Heads "Remain In Light", Neu "75"

 

[Frank Harvey]

Random quality example.

A customer bought Back To Black by Amy Whinehouse and wanted to hear it on a system in the store. The only turntable set up apt the time was a Rega Planar 2 through a Brio-R and a pair of Rega speakers. Despite a few little bits that were on the record when I took it out of the sleeve, I payed the title track and the background was silent - no clicks, no pops. Quality-wise, hard for me to tell as I'm not familiar with the album, and the recording has a distinct 50's sound to it. Probably not the best album to show off vinyl's capabilities, but definitely a random example to dispell the myths about excessive descriptions of vinyl's "roar" and other massively exaggerated shortcomings.

 

[DizzyPenguin]

*pardon*

 

[nopiano]

Great cartoon. Funny how the era becomes obvious when records are called vinyl! Perhaps when cd makes a comback it will be polycarbonate? (Or whatever it is!)

 

[Al ears]

Great cartoon. Funny how the era becomes obvious when records are called vinyl! Perhaps when cd makes a comback it will be polycarbonate? (Or whatever it is!)

I'm quite happy with vinyl, as long as it never becomes vinyls. ;-)