New turntable time.

[Nemo]

I have decided to upgrade my turntable, and the funding is approved by my team leader!

My present project carbon is good enough, but I do have minor niggles with it, the fiddly anti skate, the lack of a speed switch, and the peculiar habit of occasionally starting to revolve the wrong way on switch on! And so I feel like moving up a notch or three.

I have in mind the German built clearaudio entry level at £995, it’s plug and play, and receives rave reviews.

then there is rega. Could easily afford the 3, could cope with the 6.

there is the project xperience sb that ticks the boxes too, speed controller and clamp and lid included.

The technics hasn’t escaped my line of sight either, but at £1299 without cartridge is maybe overpriced?

would my Yamaha amp struggle with any of the above?

Basically, should I think amp upgrade before turntable, or turntable before amp?

I love my Dali sensor 6’s though, and all I listen to is vinyl.

 

[iceman16]

I have decided to upgrade my turntable, and the funding is approved by my team leader!

My present project carbon is good enough, but I do have minor niggles with it, the fiddly anti skate, the lack of a speed switch, and the peculiar habit of occasionally starting to revolve the wrong way on switch on! And so I feel like moving up a notch or three.

I have in mind the German built clearaudio entry level at £995, it’s plug and play, and receives rave reviews.

then there is rega. Could easily afford the 3, could cope with the 6.

there is the project xperience sb that ticks the boxes too, speed controller and clamp and lid included.

The technics hasn’t escaped my line of sight either, but at £1299 without cartridge is maybe overpriced?

would my Yamaha amp struggle with any of the above?

Basically, should I think amp upgrade before turntable, or turntable before amp?

I love my Dali sensor 6’s though, and all I listen to is vinyl.

I suggest upgrading your amp first but depends how much you like to spend

 

[Al ears]

I confess I know nothing about the phono stage within that amp but assume it's adequate if not the best.

Regards the turntables it's pretty much whichever you feel you can live with. The Rega doesn't have a speed control as standard I believe so my opinion would be buy with enough money in the bank to get a decent cartridge and don't just rely on one with the standard fit.

 

[davidf]

I have in mind the German built clearaudio entry level at £995, it’s plug and play, and receives rave reviews.

One Of the best sounding £1,000 turntables around, in my opinion. The price of the standard finish should be higher than it currently is.

The technics hasn’t escaped my line of sight either, but at £1299 without cartridge is maybe overpriced?

The earlier 1200s and 1210s were crazy value for money - nothing else at their price point (or even twice the price) had anywhere near the same build quality. The new ones have been improved over the old Mk5 ones too. They’re more than competing with similarly priced competition.

would my Yamaha amp struggle with any of the above?

Basically, should I think amp upgrade before turntable, or turntable before amp?

With any analogue based system, the quality is reliant on the source - rubbish in, rubbish out. Even though the integral phono stage of the Yamaha may not do these decks justice, you’d still be able to appreciate their superiority over £500 turntables, for example. I’d still upgrade it, before or after the turntable.

 

[good_enough]

Don't know that amp but the phono stage can make a huge difference. It may be worth auditioning stuff with that quality (Roksan always good, I guess Rega amps would have good phono stages or what's the point?).

If what you have is merely average on the input, you'll be amazed at the extra transparency a good amp can bring.

If sound quality rather than those build issues is the priority, the cartridge would be the next place to look. I guess you might still be running the standard 2M Red? That's pretty low end and again you'd be delighted by what an upgrade can do. I personally found the Denon DL110 a revelation in 'bangs per buck'. Nothing wasted as you can transfer a cart to your new table if you like it.

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm going to dem the Pro-ject Classic and ClearAudio Concept MM tables. I'll try and blag one for a home dem.

If I was in the OP's position I would look at the Xpression and the Classic as a starting point. At least these will give him room for a amp upgrade as and when.

There are many other worthy tables, but the names are virtually endless (current and older models).

 

[chebby]

The Rega doesn't have a speed control as standard I believe ...

The Planar 6 does. (The price includes the Neo PSU with electronic speed change.)

 

[brownz]

I have decided to upgrade my turntable, and the funding is approved by my team leader!

My present project carbon is good enough, but I do have minor niggles with it, the fiddly anti skate, the lack of a speed switch, and the peculiar habit of occasionally starting to revolve the wrong way on switch on! And so I feel like moving up a notch or three.

There is the option of resolving the issues with the Debut Carbon, with motor spin up issue - that's going to cost you a motor or a speed control PCB at the most - both under £50. Depending whether it's an AC (Power Cord) or DC (Wall Wart) version an external speed box is available. This gives you a whole chunk of foldy stuff to spend on a 2M Bronze (or a cartridge of your choice), a nice acrylic platter, and buy a nice new amp or Phono Stage.

Talking from personal experience (having owned one for two years now), the 2-Xperience SB is a lovely bit of kit and plays well above it's price point. Looks best in Walnut in my opinion ;-)

The clearaudio stuff does tick a lot of boxes - and I did look at them - and they sound wonderful, I just couldn't get over the styling of the plinth as it looked like a Sky HD box to me ! A TT to me has got to look like it's just been hewn from a tree trunk.

Have fun auditioning.

 

[Al ears]

The Rega doesn't have a speed control as standard I believe ...

The Planar 6 does. (The price includes the Neo PSU with electronic speed change.)

Thanks chebby, I knew the 3 didn't wasn't sure about the 6.

 

[Nemo]

(pun intended!) laid low with man flu at the moment, so won’t be shopping for a couple of weeks.

A day trip to a highly regarded dealer will be arranged soon, before funding is withdrawn.

need to get this right first time, so will be taking it slowly.

 

[plastic penguin]

"Talking from personal experience (having owned one for two years now), the 2-Xperience SB is a lovely bit of kit and plays well above it's price point. Looks best in Walnut in my opinion"

Have you compared the 2-Xperience with the Classic? If so, how does it stack up? I heard it briefly, albeit not with my amp and speakers, and I was a little disappointed.

I like Pro-ject stuff, however Ortofon carts, IMHO, are below par, compared to ClearAudios Classic Wood and Concept carts - and price compatible Goldring.

 

[bigfish786]

would be the Technics, at this price. Just need a half decent cart on there and you are ready to go.

nagaoka MP110 would be my choice.

http://petertyson.co.uk/index.php/technics-sl-1200gr.html?gcpc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhYHWm5rO2AIV4b3tCh2NhQUdEAQYASABEgIpzPD_BwE

 

[Al ears]

would be the Technics, at this price. Just need a half decent cart on there and you are ready to go.

nagaoka MP110 would be my choice.

http://petertyson.co.uk/index.php/technics-sl-1200gr.html?gcpc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhYHWm5rO2AIV4b3tCh2NhQUdEAQYASABEgIpzPD_BwE

It is a good price but, for me, their tonearm doesn't come up to the same standard as the rest of the turntable.

 

[brownz]

"Talking from personal experience (having owned one for two years now), the 2-Xperience SB is a lovely bit of kit and plays well above it's price point. Looks best in Walnut in my opinion"

Have you compared the 2-Xperience with the Classic? If so, how does it stack up? I heard it briefly, albeit not with my amp and speakers, and I was a little disappointed.

I like Pro-ject stuff, however Ortofon carts, IMHO, are below par, compared to ClearAudios Classic Wood and Concept carts - and price compatible Goldring.

Hi PP,

I haven't tried them side by side in a shoot out stylie. But I've had both hooked up to my test rig at some point, and have heard both on different setups.

(But now you've mentioned it I might set something up in the showroom or the demo room!!)

I love the sound of the 2XPSB, but then again at home I'm running it with a Quintet Black via a Lehmann Black Cube SE into a Onkyo AV and out through some aging B&W S2s. It's a nice balance of warmth and detail. I find the Black Cube almost tube like in the way it handles music. Again this probably suits my listening tastes as well, I don't listen to any classical, and stick mainly to modern stuff - indie / dance / rock etc - pretty much everyting bar classical !

The XPSP2 feels like it's from the stable of the more expsnsive TTs, being a one piece thick slab of wood with a tonearm. It's a very simple and elegant solution which tickles the engineering background in me. No chrome, no bling, no furry dice, nothing there that doesn't need to be there. The Classic looks nice, but personally it's not the styling I would go for, if I want a retro TT I'll go out and buy one. I know a couple of people who have Classics and they rave about them, so they can't be all that bad though.

Obvs I don't get to listen to many other carts so can't really offer any opinion on that. Though I have heard a few Naks and was impressed by a Benz Micro Glider S I fitted for a customer a couple of years ago. I've always been happy with Ortofon, again I think this is a personal taste thing, I like the sound - it suits my ears = I'm happy !

 

[Al ears]

"Talking from personal experience (having owned one for two years now), the 2-Xperience SB is a lovely bit of kit and plays well above it's price point. Looks best in Walnut in my opinion"

Have you compared the 2-Xperience with the Classic? If so, how does it stack up? I heard it briefly, albeit not with my amp and speakers, and I was a little disappointed.

I like Pro-ject stuff, however Ortofon carts, IMHO, are below par, compared to ClearAudios Classic Wood and Concept carts - and price compatible Goldring.

Hi PP,

I haven't tried them side by side in a shoot out stylie. But I've had both hooked up to my test rig at some point, and have heard both on different setups.

(But now you've mentioned it I might set something up in the showroom or the demo room!!)

I love the sound of the 2XPSB, but then again at home I'm running it with a Quintet Black via a Lehmann Black Cube SE into a Onkyo AV and out through some aging B&W S2s. It's a nice balance of warmth and detail. I find the Black Cube almost tube like in the way it handles music. Again this probably suits my listening tastes as well, I don't listen to any classical, and stick mainly to modern stuff - indie / dance / rock etc - pretty much everyting bar classical !

The XPSP2 feels like it's from the stable of the more expsnsive TTs, being a one piece thick slab of wood with a tonearm. It's a very simple and elegant solution which tickles the engineering background in me. No chrome, no bling, no furry dice, nothing there that doesn't need to be there. The Classic looks nice, but personally it's not the styling I would go for, if I want a retro TT I'll go out and buy one. I know a couple of people who have Classics and they rave about them, so they can't be all that bad though.

Obvs I don't get to listen to many other carts so can't really offer any opinion on that. Though I have heard a few Naks and was impressed by a Benz Micro Glider S I fitted for a customer a couple of years ago. I've always been happy with Ortofon, again I think this is a personal taste thing, I like the sound - it suits my ears = I'm happy !

Nice to hear someone else rates the Benz Micro cartridges, I recently acquired the Glider SL, best value for money MC around at the moment in my opinion.

 

[plastic penguin]

"Talking from personal experience (having owned one for two years now), the 2-Xperience SB is a lovely bit of kit and plays well above it's price point. Looks best in Walnut in my opinion"

Have you compared the 2-Xperience with the Classic? If so, how does it stack up? I heard it briefly, albeit not with my amp and speakers, and I was a little disappointed.

I like Pro-ject stuff, however Ortofon carts, IMHO, are below par, compared to ClearAudios Classic Wood and Concept carts - and price compatible Goldring.

Hi PP,

I haven't tried them side by side in a shoot out stylie. But I've had both hooked up to my test rig at some point, and have heard both on different setups.

(But now you've mentioned it I might set something up in the showroom or the demo room!!)

I love the sound of the 2XPSB, but then again at home I'm running it with a Quintet Black via a Lehmann Black Cube SE into a Onkyo AV and out through some aging B&W S2s. It's a nice balance of warmth and detail. I find the Black Cube almost tube like in the way it handles music. Again this probably suits my listening tastes as well, I don't listen to any classical, and stick mainly to modern stuff - indie / dance / rock etc - pretty much everyting bar classical !

The XPSP2 feels like it's from the stable of the more expsnsive TTs, being a one piece thick slab of wood with a tonearm. It's a very simple and elegant solution which tickles the engineering background in me. No chrome, no bling, no furry dice, nothing there that doesn't need to be there. The Classic looks nice, but personally it's not the styling I would go for, if I want a retro TT I'll go out and buy one. I know a couple of people who have Classics and they rave about them, so they can't be all that bad though.

Obvs I don't get to listen to many other carts so can't really offer any opinion on that. Though I have heard a few Naks and was impressed by a Benz Micro Glider S I fitted for a customer a couple of years ago. I've always been happy with Ortofon, again I think this is a personal taste thing, I like the sound - it suits my ears = I'm happy !

*good*

 

[emcc_3]

I had the as500 with the debut. I would assume the phono stage is similar if not the same as the 501.

I noticed a marked increase in quality with the Roksan phono stage.

Though some have suggested an amp upgrade there is always the option of a external phono stage instead.

 

[Nemo]

Well, I got a call to audition three turntables, and spent a good time in the audition room with the project Classic, xpression sb, and the technics.

I know beauty is skin deep, but looks, to an extent do colour your ( or at least my) judgement.

In the end, the xpression stood out as my number one choice.

the technics looks like a dj turntable although I could happily live with one, but would I need the slider speed control? I think not.

The classic, is it just a Linn Sondek wannabe? Sounded almost harsh, aggressive even, which could be the Yamaha amp, I know.

sio it’s the xpression sb. In walnut, and the icing? A £200 discount! Enough for a cart upgrade if the ortofon silver doesn’t rock it for me when the TT comes home next week.

Already plotting an amplifier upgrade to complete my system. Hope this cures my upgradeitus!

 

[Al ears]

Well, I got a call to audition three turntables, and spent a good time in the audition room with the project Classic, xpression sb, and the technics.

I know beauty is skin deep, but looks, to an extent do colour your ( or at least my) judgement.

In the end, the xpression stood out as my number one choice.

the technics looks like a dj turntable although I could happily live with one, but would I need the slider speed control? I think not.

The classic, is it just a Linn Sondek wannabe? Sounded almost harsh, aggressive even, which could be the Yamaha amp, I know.

sio it’s the xpression sb. In walnut, and the icing? A £200 discount! Enough for a cart upgrade if the ortofon silver doesn’t rock it for me when the TT comes home next week.

Already plotting an amplifier upgrade to complete my system. Hope this cures my upgradeitus!

Hope you enjoy your new deck.

 

[Nemo]

On my way!

 

[Nemo]

Not as strait forward as I would have liked it to be.

Men don’t read manuals but it would be a foolish man who didn’t read it with a £1K piece of kit, the most I have ever spent on a single piece of hi fi.

I carefully unpacked everything, laying it all out and checking it all against the manual. All there.

The cartridge is factory fitted and alingned I trust. Fitting the feet is simple, and i spent a while adjusting them for level. So far, so good. Balance the arm, after fitting the counterweight is easy enough.

so, onto the anti skate device. Hmmm.... there is a brass pin, with a single collar groove, screwed to the back of the gimbal, and in a little plastic bag, is the ( lead?) weight fixed on fishing line, with a tiny loop tied into it, the same as used on my previous carbon. Also another small brass screw, threaded at one end, and the three notches at the other. Unfortunately the manual does not make it clear where this screw is to be fitted. I spent ages trying to figure this out and was totally baffled. I have to be honest and admit that bafflement comes easily to me. I tried the internet, which wasn’t helpful, My local hi fi dealers turntable guy was on leave, but promised to call Henley’s for advice. In the meantime, I did manage to find a photo on the internet of the rear of the deck, that showed where the pin was to go. So, assembly took about five hours of my time.

So the question is, why is the pin not fitted in the factory, the second non adjustable one is why not both?

 

[brownz]

Not as strait forward as I would have liked it to be.

Men don’t read manuals but it would be a foolish man who didn’t read it with a £1K piece of kit, the most I have ever spent on a single piece of hi fi.

I carefully unpacked everything, laying it all out and checking it all against the manual. All there.

The cartridge is factory fitted and alingned I trust. Fitting the feet is simple, and i spent a while adjusting them for level. So far, so good. Balance the arm, after fitting the counterweight is easy enough.

so, onto the anti skate device. Hmmm.... there is a brass pin, with a single collar groove, screwed to the back of the gimbal, and in a little plastic bag, is the ( lead?) weight fixed on fishing line, with a tiny loop tied into it, the same as used on my previous carbon. Also another small brass screw, threaded at one end, and the three notches at the other. Unfortunately the manual does not make it clear where this screw is to be fitted. I spent ages trying to figure this out and was totally baffled. I have to be honest and admit that bafflement comes easily to me. I tried the internet, which wasn’t helpful, My local hi fi dealers turntable guy was on leave, but promised to call Henley’s for advice. In the meantime, I did manage to find a photo on the internet of the rear of the deck, that showed where the pin was to go. So, assembly took about five hours of my time.

So the question is, why is the pin not fitted in the factory, the second non adjustable one is why not both?

Hi,

There was feedback from customers who were unable to loop the ASW loop over it when it was pre-fitted. (It's tapered and knurled at one end). So it's left off so the loop can be put over the front and then screwed into the tonearm.

It should be clearer in the manual though - agreed ! I'll feed this back.

 

[brownz]

We're adding a little Service Note I've put together on our website where that tonearm is used.

I've also fed this back to Pro-Ject for them to review the manuals.

 

[Al ears]

We're adding a little Service Note I've put together on our website where that tonearm is used.

I've also fed this back to Pro-Ject for them to review the manuals.

Nice one.

 

[Nemo]

putting the wire loop over the brass rod before fitting.

But I did use tweezers to fit the loop onto the brass rod.