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New system for electronic music?

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MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
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drummerman said:
I'd forget about anything active made purely for studios unless you want your teeth stripped of their enamel.
It's difficult to know what you meant by that, but if you mean all 'studio grade' speakers are too lean and shrill, then I'm not sure that could be more of a misleading generalisation. Even the ubiquitous bedroom producers' favourites, KRK Rokits, don't sound like that, in fact one reason I've never really been a fan of them is the models I auditioned were too bass heavy.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
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MajorFubar said:
drummerman said:
I'd forget about anything active made purely for studios unless you want your teeth stripped of their enamel.
It's difficult to know what you meant by that, but if you mean all 'studio grade' speakers are too lean and shrill, then I'm not sure that could be more of a misleading generalisation. Even the ubiquitous bedroom producers' favourites, KRK Rokits, don't sound like that, in fact one reason I've never really been a fan of them is the models I auditioned were too bass heavy.
KRK Rokit's are not studio speakers. They are cheap boxes for bedroom DJ'S and sound quite frankly ... terrible. That much I remember.

Good, accurate studio monitors don't sound 'shrill' unless the recording is that way but are made for the sound engineer to hear if someone kicks a mic stand or audibly turns a page and such like. They are made to hear inaccuracies. (As stated by the chief sound engineer at air studios).

Now, if that is your aim, go ahead. It might give you a headache most of the time but hey, we all like different things.

Many, many things will sound shite on such a transducer but if you limit yourself to audiophile recordings you will probably enjoy the result.

@ Davedotco ... that is not just my opinion but again, Air Studios Chief Sound Engineer was quite clear that he understood that the majority of folks do not want to listen to music like that (I think the 2 or 3 page interview/tour of the AS's was featured in Hifi Choice or HifiNews & RR).

You pays your money.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
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0
drummerman said:
MajorFubar said:
drummerman said:
I'd forget about anything active made purely for studios unless you want your teeth stripped of their enamel.
It's difficult to know what you meant by that, but if you mean all 'studio grade' speakers are too lean and shrill, then I'm not sure that could be more of a misleading generalisation. Even the ubiquitous bedroom producers' favourites, KRK Rokits, don't sound like that, in fact one reason I've never really been a fan of them is the models I auditioned were too bass heavy.
KRK Rokit's are not studio speakers. They are cheap boxes for bedroom DJ'S and sound quite frankly ... terrible. That much I remember.

Good, accurate studio monitors don't sound 'shrill' unless the recording is that way but are made for the sound engineer to hear if someone kicks a mic stand or audibly turns a page and such like. They are made to hear inaccuracies. (As stated by the chief sound engineer at air studios).

Now, if that is your aim, go ahead. It might give you a headache most of the time but hey, we all like different things.

Many, many things will sound shite on such a transducer but if you limit yourself to audiophile recordings you will probably enjoy the result.

@ Davedotco ... that is not just my opinion but gain, Air Studios Chief Sound Engineer was quite clear that he understood that the majority of folks do not want to listen to music like that.

You pays your money.
Have you ever been in Air studios?

I have, I helped to install a pair of main monitors. A few years later I did some programming work on one of their Fairlight CMI-3.

However, more importantly I am interested to know how a recording engineer can work for hours (and hours) on end with "studio monitors" that give the poor little hi-fi enthusiast a headache.

Your understanding of what studio monitors do and how they are used is, I am afraid quite laughable. I have found that studio engineers, and I have met several truly great ones, have no more understanding of what hi-fi users want than you have about what goes on in a recording studio.

Sorry DM.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
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davedotco said:
drummerman said:
MajorFubar said:
drummerman said:
I'd forget about anything active made purely for studios unless you want your teeth stripped of their enamel.
It's difficult to know what you meant by that, but if you mean all 'studio grade' speakers are too lean and shrill, then I'm not sure that could be more of a misleading generalisation. Even the ubiquitous bedroom producers' favourites, KRK Rokits, don't sound like that, in fact one reason I've never really been a fan of them is the models I auditioned were too bass heavy.
KRK Rokit's are not studio speakers. They are cheap boxes for bedroom DJ'S and sound quite frankly ... terrible. That much I remember.

Good, accurate studio monitors don't sound 'shrill' unless the recording is that way but are made for the sound engineer to hear if someone kicks a mic stand or audibly turns a page and such like. They are made to hear inaccuracies. (As stated by the chief sound engineer at air studios).

Now, if that is your aim, go ahead. It might give you a headache most of the time but hey, we all like different things.

Many, many things will sound shite on such a transducer but if you limit yourself to audiophile recordings you will probably enjoy the result.

@ Davedotco ... that is not just my opinion but gain, Air Studios Chief Sound Engineer was quite clear that he understood that the majority of folks do not want to listen to music like that.

You pays your money.
Have you ever been in Air studios?

I have, I helped to install a pair of main monitors. A few years later I did some programming work on one of their Fairlight CMI-3.

However, more importantly I am interested to know how a recording engineer can work for hours (and hours) on end with "studio monitors" that give the poor little hi-fi enthusiast a headache.

Your understanding of what studio monitors do and how they are used is, I am afraid quite laughable. I have found that studio engineers, and I have met several truly great ones, have no more understanding of what hi-fi users want than you have about what goes on in a recording studio.

Sorry DM.
I had a feeling you might bring the 'I've worked for ... ' up. This may be true but I for one would certainly like to know if you have any proof of that which could be verified?
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
Ah, forget it. Its not going to change my life nor am I really that interested.

Its also not going to change what I have heard over the years even if you have listened to, installed, and owned hundreds of the things whether in your imagination or real.

The simple fact that a brief of a (good, read reasonably expensive) studio monitor is to be accurate and ultra revealing will make it a problem proposition. Add to this that they are supposed to be used in accoustically 'correct' (treated) rooms and it makes the whole suggestion of a studio monitor for the home potentially very tricky.

If you excuse me I'll go back to my 'acoustically incorrect' room and system and enjoy some music :)
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
789
128
19,070
davedotco said:
gasolin said:
Q acoustics 2050i or 3050 resonable price,good sensitivity and sounds good

If you like the sound of the Yamah HS8 you get a pair that is sooo loud and so much bass you would only need someting louder if you had an old heavy metal band who is half deaf over for a visit to play some loud music
I rather liked the 2050i when I heard them, though I have not heard the latest version.

All you say is true except that, in my experience, they need a lot of space around them to keep the bass under control. They are also not the fastest or most articulate in the bass either, fine for a lot of material, but I would question their suitability for EDM.

That said, the OP is after floorstanders, the Adams are not, not ideal, and with a seriously grippy amp like the Nait or batter Arcam, the 2050i may work fine.
Good stands, mabye isoacoustics stands, feet which i recommend all the time because they are sooo good

I do have the 2010i and 3020...... with my 2010i i use a small nad amp, i do somehow find the bass to be bigger on the 2010i's compared to my 3020 that i use with a Marantz PM8005

I feel the 2010i doesn't sound to bright, they are also burn in and i use them most of the time for tv, for the size very good bass, i won't say better than the 3020 just give them 5 stars for the bass compared to there size

3020 is a bit brighter and less bass (but still good), to me they can sound like a clear open sounding studio monitor with no boomy bass

We don't what OP prefers mabye the 2050i's and he will save alot of money compared to the 3050
 

donGarcia

New member
Jan 12, 2014
12
0
0
Well, you have engaged yourselves in a interesting conversation, A bit rough or condescent by the way but, I understand that happends when you are pasionate about some particular stuff, I learned about this: adams ax7/ax8 a worth an audition at my own home, I guess the acoustics of it might be good or bad, only trying we know. At the end, that it is what it matters I guess regardless, how are the specs on paper.

By the way, just tried the sonos connect with dezzer elite and listen to Alive 2007 of daft punk, flac version, not a huge difference from spootify through airplay but it has softened or balanced my sony str1040 to the point that it made me smile. Little moments of joy in live. Enjoy your systems boys!
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
16
2
0
davedotco said:
Have you ever been in Air studios?

I have, I helped to install a pair of main monitors. A few years later I did some programming work on one of their Fairlight CMI-3.

However, more importantly I am interested to know how a recording engineer can work for hours (and hours) on end with "studio monitors" that give the poor little hi-fi enthusiast a headache.

Your understanding of what studio monitors do and how they are used is, I am afraid quite laughable. I have found that studio engineers, and I have met several truly great ones, have no more understanding of what hi-fi users want than you have about what goes on in a recording studio.

Sorry DM.
Drugs or alcohol or both.

From reading Peter Hook's Substance.

I'm with Drummerman on this.

What speakers are marketed as and what they actually are can be 2 very different things.

There some speakers that have been marketed as "studio monitors" that I like a lot. And there are many that I don't like - ranging from "Good, but not for me" to "Bad".
 

donGarcia

New member
Jan 12, 2014
12
0
0
Lost the oportunity with the rega elex, gone when I asked, found atc for 800£ V2, but will need a big ammount of power As I read, meanwhile I found a lot of praise for the Avi Dm5 Dm10, 1500£ dm10 sounds a wird choice compare to for example, that money spend on 2 tannoys x6 tf floorstanders and maybe the elex rega r or nait si5. Doubts come to me now
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
donGarcia said:
Lost the oportunity with the rega elex, gone when I asked, found atc for 800£ V2, but will need a big ammount of power As I read, meanwhile I found a lot of praise for the Avi Dm5 Dm10, 1500£ dm10 sounds a wird choice compare to for example, that money spend on 2 tannoys x6 tf floorstanders and maybe the elex rega r or nait si5. Doubts come to me now
There are always many options, sometimes you simply have to make some decisions and reduce them to a manageable number.

As the well known saying about opinions goes, .....everybody has one.

For example, I would not give budget Tannoys house room, and I find Rega amplifiers to sound 'squeaky', but other people clearly hear things very differently, what can I say...*unknw*

I still think that a pair of A7xs, a WXC 50 with stands and cables at around £1200-1300 all in would be outstanding value, but you might think otherwise. For that budget that would probably be my choice sound wise, though for domestic acceptability I currently use Artist 6s, small and very elegant floorstanders.
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
16
2
0
luckylion100 said:
More for the comedy value than discovering the true definition of mediocre.
luckylion100, did you publish a libel about me on this forum and then refuse to apologise for it for the "comedy value"?

luckylion100, you are welcome to do your own bake-offs and report the results on here if you are unsatisfied with the bake-off reports from other members.
 

donGarcia

New member
Jan 12, 2014
12
0
0
I never listened to active speakers apart from partys, I guess just cheap powerful ones, I find the actives like buying a notebook or a cpu, if a part brokes you have to change all over or either you can not update a part with a nice component, but obviously is worth the try. i will have a go with the atc and maybe try to audition the actives and compare. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
donGarcia said:
I never listened to active speakers apart from partys, I guess just cheap powerful ones, I find the actives like buying a notebook or a cpu, if a part brokes you have to change all over or either you can not update a part with a nice component, but obviously is worth the try. i will have a go with the atc and maybe try to audition the actives and compare. Thanks for the suggestion.
Most affordable actives are made for the 'pro' market. I do not subscribe to the view that this makes them somehow 'clinical' or 'flat' or 'too honest', good speakers are good speakers, irrespective of their design philosophy.

The real problem is that you can not pop down to your local hi-fi store and hear a few pairs, you can try music/pro dealers but their dem facilities and demonstration style is often very difficult from what hi-fi enthusiasts are used to.

If you are a serial 'box swapper' or 'tweeker', actives will limit your options, so maybe not for you? I have not found reliability to be an issue, they are built to handle more than most hi-fi components in the same price range.
 

donGarcia

New member
Jan 12, 2014
12
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0
Fair point, I enjoy getting things together and see what you can get but, you put yourself at risk of getting deep in this hifi crazy world of spending thoushands of bucks to get a minimal change, I have an AV amp of 500£ and spent 700£ in speakers and now I see myself in the 1000-2000£ range just to one component, it is scary and you can not stop thinking at times is a complete nonsense when you can be travelling for a month in thailand with that money, to put an example. In this case active speakers, helps to keep fit in earth. As "the job is donne" and I have no doubts some will fit me but, as you say is difficult to access them.
 

avole

New member
Jul 15, 2016
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Beats HiFi hands down!

Also, having re-thought the argument a la lindsayt, I think you'd be far better off with three way speakers featuring large bass drivers than you would small midwoofer actives. Forget the claims, cabinet design and speaker size do make the biggest difference. I'm intending to audition Klipsch and JBL amongst others for just that reason when the renovated house is finished in March.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
425
178
19,070
donGarcia said:
Lost the oportunity with the rega elex, gone when I asked, found atc for 800£ V2, but will need a big ammount of power As I read, meanwhile I found a lot of praise for the Avi Dm5 Dm10, 1500£ dm10 sounds a wird choice compare to for example, that money spend on 2 tannoys x6 tf floorstanders and maybe the elex rega r or nait si5. Doubts come to me now
Good for you, that was a trap, not an opportunity :)))

Try Naim. Maybe with Focal Aria 926.

BTW, atc are very power hungry.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
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0
If you can not get the bass right in your room and you can not change the room, you need to change the speakers.

As a general rule, the bigger the speakers, the further they need to be from the walls, their extra bass power may well 'excite' the room causing the "reflections" (resonance) that you are getting.

A better amp with more control will help, but the change to the CXA80 is likely to be insufficient to make a real difference, and the speakers may simply be too big for the room anyway. This is a common problem brought about by the current trend of buying big speakers and less capable amplifiers, as I advised earlier, you would have done much better by reversing the amounts spent on your amp and speakers.

Spending £1000 on, say, a Naim Nait and £600 on good standmounts (+ stands) like the Epos K1 or the new Dynaudio M10/20 would give far more control and an overall better sound.
 

donGarcia

New member
Jan 12, 2014
12
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0
Hi guys!I finally have a system working at home.

I went for a demo of the dali opticon 6, combined with the cambridge audio cxa60 and the sonos connect via flac files from dezzer. I only needed a few seconds to know I was listening to a beast, the bass is so heavy a dense that it feels like melting in your mouth. We tried afterwards the tannoys and I agree with what hifi that they have a touch more refine with vocals, but that is it, in terms of midrange and bass the dali's Are in a complete different league. Now my problem is that at home the lows are so low/powerful that I get reflections, I managed to place them better but, that reflections are not allowing me to enjoy them as I know they will be able to, I can not change the accoutics of the house for several reasons so, I will like to know if with a different amp they will be any chance to improve that low end or either get more transparency with lower volumes as I see the reflections almost dissapear turning the volume down but you loose what it makes them special.it's worth trying as they are the most impressive speakers I ever tried. Thinking about the cxa80, just because I read more watts a better for this speakers, my. Budget for the amp will be around £800. Dac inclusive otherwise I will have to use the sonos and that will be a bottle neck I supouse.
 

donGarcia

New member
Jan 12, 2014
12
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The volume of air available is not the problem 4.5 x 6m wide x3.5 high...I am quite sure it is the floor, it os wood but, stands over 2-4 cm from the floor, when the low ends come ro shine the floor makes a rebound effect, still maybe standmounts are solution as they are over the floor, it is a pitty because it sounds great until, I have been listening to classical music...that is how good they are. I will try with the tannoys 6xf just because is easy and the lack of that low end and good vocals maybe, make them shine better, the only problem with the system fou suggest is that the nait hasn't got a dac, so I will have to use the sonos then, wich does not look like a good match to a 1000£ amp.
 

Macspur

Well-known member
May 3, 2010
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18,540
That's a real shame... ATC would not have that affect... a closed box design, you just hear whatever base is in the recording, paired with a Naim Supernait perhaps?

I don't normally recommend ATC, much preferring Harbeth, but with Electronica they really do excell.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net
 

donGarcia

New member
Jan 12, 2014
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Yes but we are talking them, of increasing my budget to 1200£ the atc plus the supernait that is...3000£? That is way up my budget, the one I have at my home cost 1400£ with 300£ discount from RS, new items, I will let you know how is it with the tannoys and if that does not work I will have to go to standmount speakers.

Update: inserting the cover of the speakers inside the lower reat port, takes out a bit of the boom effect, tried also with 2 granite choptables below, I don't think then is that much the floor, must be the reaonance of the walls
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
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donGarcia said:
Yes but we are talking them, of increasing my budget to 1200£ the atc plus the supernait that is...3000£? That is way up my budget, the one I have at my home cost 1400£ with 300£ discount from RS, new items, I will let you know how is it with the tannoys and if that does not work I will have to go to standmount speakers.

Update: inserting the cover of the speakers inside the lower reat port, takes out a bit of the boom effect, tried also with 2 granite choptables below, I don't think then is that much the floor, must be the reaonance of the walls
As has been said previously, you are exciting 'room modes', i.e. resonances/standing waves that are a function of room dimensions and the speakers actual position within the room. Just to experiment, try this. Set up the speakers so that they are firing down the length of the room, place them so that they are 1/3rd of the way into the room and reasonably clear of the sidewalls. Set your listening position 2/3rds of the way down the room. This may be impractical as a permanent arrangement but may give you an idea of the speakers real capabilities.
 

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