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New system for electronic music?

donGarcia

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Jan 12, 2014
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Hi guys!

I will like to have some advice, I have listened to a few speakers as I do really believe that it is your own ears who tells you wich is the best system, looks obvious but, sometimes we forget about it.

So my listening room is 4 metres long 3.5 high and 5.5 aprox wide, quite a lot of furniture. souds quite good with my current sony str 1040 and monitor audio bx2 5.0. I am looking for a stereo amp as I tried once the cambridge audio dac 100/arcam a19, unfortunately I needed aswell a projector and I choose at the the end to invest the money on this last one.

Now, I recover financially and I have got around 1800 £ to spend. So far I listened to the arcam as mentioned and to the cambridge audio cx60 with sonos connect, spootify and the tannoy 6xtf and the monitor audio silver, my dealer states I should wait to listen to the opticon 6. My findings where this, I was impresed but not sure if I could get something better,the monitor audio sounds a bit por spacious than the tannoys in the mids, and the vocals a bit better aswell but the bass is not engaging is just loud, while the tannoys the bass sounds more compact and tight, I like electronic music in a 60-70 % no hard techno, just house, indie pop-electronic music, type MGMT and that stuff. Ohh, I tried the kefs LS50 and I thought that the vocals where amazing but the bass was not impresive, I like kistening loud but I do not like the BOOM or distorsion a like bass, agile, precise and compact.

I was thinking the rega elex-r, just because is theorically a step up from the cambridge audio, now I will need a dac aswell and speakers acordingly, any suggestion taking in account size of room, music I like, sources and budget?

Many thanks in advance
 

MajorFubar

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Mar 3, 2010
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By electronic music I'm assuming you mean EDM or dubstep as opposed to ambient. I agree a decent amp will help but you can pair a meaty amp with a tinny pair of speakers and you'll still get a tinny sound (let's say 'bass shy' rather than tinny, sounds less critical). Either way they are destined to leave you feeling underwhelmed and lacking the (controlled) muscle you crave. Have you listened to any large floorstanding speakers, or standmounts with a sub? I think either of those is the way to go if you have the room, and the money you're about to throw at the problem should be ample enough unless you want nightclub-levels of volume.
 

Gazzip

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Jan 15, 2011
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MajorFubar said:
By electronic music I'm assuming you mean EDM or dubstep as opposed to ambient. I agree a decent amp will help but you can pair a meaty amp with a tinny pair of speakers and you'll still get a tinny sound (let's say 'bass shy' rather than tinny, sounds less critical). Either way they are destined to leave you feeling underwhelmed and lacking the (controlled) muscle you crave. Have you listened to any large floorstanding speakers, or standmounts with a sub? I think either of those is the way to go if you have the room, and the money you're about to throw at the problem should be ample enough unless you want nightclub-levels of volume.
Go on Major... Recommend them... I dare you... *biggrin*
 

Gazzip

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Jan 15, 2011
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MajorFubar said:
By electronic music I'm assuming you mean EDM or dubstep as opposed to ambient. I agree a decent amp will help but you can pair a meaty amp with a tinny pair of speakers and you'll still get a tinny sound (let's say 'bass shy' rather than tinny, sounds less critical). Either way they are destined to leave you feeling underwhelmed and lacking the (controlled) muscle you crave. Have you listened to any large floorstanding speakers, or standmounts with a sub? I think either of those is the way to go if you have the room, and the money you're about to throw at the problem should be ample enough unless you want nightclub-levels of volume.
They are within his budget and you know you want to...
 

Gazzip

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MajorFubar said:
To be honest if he's wanting bass-dominant music, certainly my actives would probably not meet his brief unless he paired them with a sub and just whacked it up and b*gger to balance and integration. A local pro-music shop may well stock other models in-budget which do, but I'd definitely recommend trying to listen to some larger standmounters at a HiFi dealer, mated to a meaty amp.

See...a balanced answer :)
Balanced indeed! Good work!
 

MajorFubar

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Mar 3, 2010
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To be honest if he's wanting bass-dominant music, certainly my actives would probably not meet his brief unless he paired them with a sub and just whacked it up and b*gger to balance and integration. A local pro-music shop may well stock other models in-budget which do, but I'd definitely recommend also trying to listen to some larger floor-standing passives at a HiFi dealer, mated to a meaty amp. £1800 should be plenty to get the sound he craves.

See...a balanced answer :)
 

Macspur

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May 3, 2010
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In terms of speakers, I would highly recommend ATC... sound amazing with electronica.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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MajorFubar said:
Not floorstanders, but the Adam A8x are £1200-1300 pr, add a Yamaha WXC 50, some stands and cables and yoy still have enough left from your budget for a few beers down the pub.

For the kind of music being played, I would find it hard to suggest anything better.
 

shadders

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Nov 19, 2009
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davedotco said:
MajorFubar said:
Not floorstanders, but the Adam A8x are £1200-1300 pr, add a Yamaha WXC 50, some stands and cables and yoy still have enough left from your budget for a few beers down the pub.

For the kind of music being played, I would find it hard to suggest anything better.
Hi,

So for a different type of music you would suggest a G&T?

Regards,

Shadders.
 

MajorFubar

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davedotco said:
MajorFubar said:
just the man...was it Adams or Yamahas which you listened to but found them a bit bass-heavy? If he could find a local stockist they could well be what he's after, or at least be a starter for ten to which he can compare other alternatives.

EDIT: Ah you edited your reply :)
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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MajorFubar said:
davedotco said:
MajorFubar said:
Ah just the man...was it Adams or Yamahas which you listened to but found them a bit bass-heavy? If he could find a local stockist they could well be what he's after, or at least be a starter for ten to which he can compare other alternatives.
The A8x are very potent, could be an issue in some circumstances but they have shelving controls in the bass that cover most eventualities. We do not know the what the OPs reation to this sort of performance will be but from the post, it should be positive.

Plenty of alternatives at this sort of money, Quested S7R, Eve SC208 and other Adams for example or even the ultimate party animal, the Mackie HR824. If you choose the latter, be sure to warn the neighbours.

FWIW. The big Yamaha HS8 is a fine budget alternative but at less than £500 they have limits, most noticeably some low frequency cabinet resonance at high volumes.
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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shadders said:
davedotco said:
MajorFubar said:
Not floorstanders, but the Adam A8x are £1200-1300 pr, add a Yamaha WXC 50, some stands and cables and yoy still have enough left from your budget for a few beers down the pub.

For the kind of music being played, I would find it hard to suggest anything better.
Hi,

So for a different type of music you would suggest a G&T?

Regards,

Shadders.
Reflecting my own rather plebian tastes, I'm afraid.

Though for our last visit to the Wigmore Hall, a nice bottle of prosecco went nicely with the Handel.

For EDM and the like, my real suggestion might be inappropriate for a public forum.
 

donGarcia

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Jan 12, 2014
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Many thanks for the comments guys! I tried several floorstanders with the cambridge audio/sonos connect/spootify, particulary one song, flutes from hot chip. My impresions:

-Monitor audio silver floorstanders: nice midrange and great vocals, heavy bass but, difuse,good for opera I guess. Sounds like a home cinema

-dymaudio around 900£ I don't remnber the model, sound almost the same as the monitor audio silver but heavier, like they were more solid, overall good. But still difuse bass. Sounds like a home cinema

-tannoy maybe compared to the previous ones there is not as much space between vocals and midrange but bass is great, very tight, clinical and precise, love it.

Is the rega going to improve the sound of this models?in what way?other options in dac/amplifier?naim?roksan?arcam29?subwoofer??I never thought about this one as the bx2 were good enough, I am thinking more of floorstanders cause they have capacity to get better mid/low frecuencies in theory.

I listen to EDM & CHILL..pretty much.

I am going to check the ones all you mentioned, but I think you got something wrong, I don't like to listen to EDM like in a disco with shacking bass, or overpowered, the bx2 5.0 with the str1040 fulls my room in any party without a problem, it has got 100watts per channel,but when I am alone I miss my hours of listening in a proper stereo like the arcam,I I am looking for something more balanced, I guess, more audiophile I supouse but, without a compromise in the bass, agile and precise but, with presence because at the end, most of the time i listen ti EDM.
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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Not just volume.

As you are discovering, EDM has a very specific set of requirements to sound as you want. Good weighty bass, that remains fast, agile and detailed is, generally, more difficult than people think.

Whilst such a performance can be obtained from conventional passive systems, it is often hard to get them to do what you want. Positioning floorstanders can be very difficult, they will interact with the room unless precisely placed, often this means in a domestically unacceptable position. They will require plenty of control from the amplifier so I would think of budgeting rather more for this and, if necessary, less on the speakers.

It is not that easy making suggestions to someone with quite specific requirements, but the Naim Nait is known for it's speed and rhythmic ability so might be a solution, ask the (Naim) dealer for speaker recomendations, look outside the usual mass market suspects and if it is at all possible, consider standmounts too.

It is always difficult when the brand or product you prefer does not really do what you want, I have always found the A19 to be faintly disappointing in dems so if you can rethink your ideas a little, maybe look to the Arcam A39 (or the Nait) with less expensive standmount speakers. You may be surprised how good decent standmounts can sound when properly driven.

All that said, I still think the Adam A7x or A8x will give you what you want at a very reasonable price, in terms of sound quality at least. It all depends on your other priorities.
 

ID.

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Feb 22, 2010
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davedotco said:
Not just volume.

As you are discovering, EDM has a very specific set of requirements to sound as you want. Good weighty bass, that remains fast, agile and detailed is, generally, more difficult than people think.

Whilst such a performance can be obtained from conventional passive systems, it is often hard to get them to do what you want. Positioning floorstanders can be very difficult, they will interact with the room unless precisely placed, often this means in a domestically unacceptable position. They will require plenty of control from the amplifier so I would think of budgeting rather more for this and, if necessary, less on the speakers.

It is not that easy making suggestions to someone with quite specific requirements, but the Naim Nait is known for it's speed and rhythmic ability so might be a solution, ask the (Naim) dealer for speaker recomendations, look outside the usual mass market suspects and if it is at all possible, consider standmounts too.

It is always difficult when the brand or product you prefer does not really do what you want, I have always found the A19 to be faintly disappointing in dems so if you can rethink your ideas a little, maybe look to the Arcam A39 (or the Nait) with less expensive standmount speakers. You may be surprised how good decent standmounts can sound when properly driven.

All that said, I still think the Adam A7x or A8x will give you what you want at a very reasonable price, in terms of sound quality at least. It all depends on your other priorities.
Arcam fanboy here - I've quite liked the open sound of their amps with electronic music of all kinds, but they can be a bit loose in the bass, so you might need to audition extensively to find the right match. As mentioned, stand mount speakers may give the better result. Also, the higher up the range your budget will let you go the better.

As for the suggestion of Adams, as you can see from my signature I'm a fan of the A7X. The bass and other controls even let me use them in a very cramped space at the moment.

They work well for everything in my collection, which is good. Having said that, my collection is mainly electronic from ambient through to heavy stuff and everything in between.
 

drummerman

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Jan 18, 2008
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I'd forget about anything active made purely for studios unless you want your teeth stripped of their enamel. The quoted Adams may be good but a) they look like they belong in a bunker and b) are voiced for neutrality ie. mastering. That may look impressive on paper but may not be very nice to live with long term. - Adam also make domestic actives and passives which both look nicer and are probably voiced slightly more 'domestically harmonic'.

Dynaudio's Focus range, active and passive, have full and ample bass, even at volume. I find some they have a slightly harsh lower treble which spoilt the enjoyment. Most likely break up modes of the mid/bass driver.

Fully go with the Naim suggestion as long as high efficiency speakers are used or as long as night club levels are not required.
 

donGarcia

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Jan 12, 2014
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thanks, any suggestions for the NAIM? stanmount or floorstanders, I have a richersounds and a superfi near by.
 

donGarcia

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Jan 12, 2014
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I totally agree with you about the bass, many people think that because it is EDM, you are just looking for a BOOM effect, while maybe some are looking for it, most have to use good quality headphones becasue otherwise you loose a lot of the subtle within the bass and when you listen though a "hifi" product, you discover all the subtle the artist intended to produce, with diffuse bass even if it is punchy and with great scale, you loose that subtle that my ears personally enjoy and make me smile.

Now, I searched for the ADAMS, fantastic reviews, ugly in my opinion compared to the one's posted but, I will not care if they are the solution. In terms of positioning currently I am using the bx2's on supports well positioned, any speakers will go there, but they are front ported so, they are easy for that. I have near by a superfi and a richersounds, maybe I can get them from AmazonUk as they are at 655£ and if I don't like them I can return them;

Naim is difficult to audition where I live, that is the main problem, I heard wonders from the ATC but, still difficult to audition them. Dynaudio 3/7 I auditioned them, sound like if they weight a lot but, did not make me have the wow experience.

I don't mind reconsidering the standmounts, the bx2's are great and they cost 250£, I guess if you spend 700-1000£ I could find gems, as passive speakers, what standmounters will you think to match the Naim or Arcam?
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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drummerman said:
I'd forget about anything active made purely for studios unless you want your teeth stripped of their enamel. The quoted Adams may be good but a) they look like they belong in a bunker and b) are voiced for neutrality ie. mastering. That may look impressive on paper but may not be very nice to live with long term. - Adam also make domestic actives and passives which both look nicer and are probably voiced slightly more 'domestically harmonic'.

Dynaudio's Focus range, active and passive, have full and ample bass, even at volume. I find some they have a slightly harsh lower treble which spoilt the enjoyment. Most likely break up modes of the mid/bass driver.

Fully go with the Naim suggestion as long as high efficiency speakers are used or as long as night club levels are not required.
You really should make it clear when you are posting that these are your personal opinions and that other's views are quite to the contrary. I have had, in my home, both 'studio' types, A5x and A7x and the more domesticated Artist series (I currently own Artist 6s) and their is no discernable difference in voicing

The A7x are, in my view, pretty stunning in this sort of application, as indeed is the A8x if you want higher levels. Their big plus is their speed and agility in the bass, something the OP seems quite keen on. At under £900 a pair they are remarkable value.

The hi frequencies are in reality smooth and sweet and have the advantage of both shelving and HF energy controls should you room need them. Similarly the bass shelving can help immensly with positioning, something few, if any passive speakers offer.

These were offered as an option, along with some views on conventional systems, the OP needs to try some of this stuff for himself.
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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Q acoustics 2050i or 3050 resonable price,good sensitivity and sounds good

If you like the sound of the Yamah HS8 you get a pair that is sooo loud and so much bass you would only need someting louder if you had an old heavy metal band who is half deaf over for a visit to play some loud music
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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gasolin said:
Q acoustics 2050i or 3050 resonable price,good sensitivity and sounds good

If you like the sound of the Yamah HS8 you get a pair that is sooo loud and so much bass you would only need someting louder if you had an old heavy metal band who is half deaf over for a visit to play some loud music
I rather liked the 2050i when I heard them, though I have not heard the latest version.

All you say is true except that, in my experience, they need a lot of space around them to keep the bass under control. They are also not the fastest or most articulate in the bass either, fine for a lot of material, but I would question their suitability for EDM.

That said, the OP is after floorstanders, the Adams are not, not ideal, and with a seriously grippy amp like the Nait or batter Arcam, the 2050i may work fine.
 

donGarcia

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Jan 12, 2014
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As I gift I bought the concept 20 with their stands/dacmagic100/rotelRa11 for my parents, the concept 20's sound great, like how compact they are with the doble cabinet but the trebe, sounded a bit bright/harsh.The dealer did not even offered me to listen tp them but, I should try the 3050's, maybe there are worth the try.
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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donGarcia said:
As I gift I bought the concept 20 with their stands/dacmagic100/rotelRa11 for my parents, the concept 20's sound great, like how compact they are with the doble cabinet but the trebe, sounded a bit bright/harsh.The dealer did not even offered me to listen tp them but, I should try the 3050's, maybe there are worth the try.
Is a very nice speaker indeed, more refined than the floorstanders. A more 'organic' sounding amp than the Rotel would probably suit tham well. If you decide to go down the Arcam route then maybe an A29 would be a good choice. Well within budget.

There is plenty of good product out there so there lots of pairings to try. Though I re-emphasise the point I made earlier, if you want fast, tight bass with a bit of punch, spend more on the amplifier.
 

donGarcia

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Jan 12, 2014
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Thanks, rotel is great for tuntables and that was the main thing for my parents, I have seem an offer: a rega elex-r for 700£, new is 900£,2 months old from a retailer. Will be connected to the sonos zp80 (now connect) bought for 95£.(original price 259£)and the 2 speakers, currently bx2, I will give it a chance and then see how it sounds with the tannoys, which I was impressed by its bass or the opticon, if I like them when I audition them. Just cause, they have good reviews and are close to be listen as a demo. Maybe in future upgrade to a better dac like the mojo/m-dac/RegaDac/irdac. If that does not work, will try the arcam a29, naim if I can listen to it and the adams 7x(the 8x seem to be too powerful). To sumarise 700£ in amp,100£ in sonos connect/dac, 700£ speakers (1500£). Let's see...
 

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