New Nait System sounding rather bright and Harsh

[Frank Harvey]

so, you're saying that since you're not a doctor but a mere hi-fi salesman you can bable without reason all the time?

I was making the point that this isn't a life or death situation. If you don't like my advice, you don't have to listen to it, and you certainly don't have to spoil someone's thread trying to nit pick.

so, you're actually admitting that your hi-fi knowledge doesn't surpass those of an average forum poster and it's ok like that?

You know very well what I'm saying, you're just twisting things. Hmmmm, that reminds me of someone....

saying fairy tales about miraculous transformation of hi-fi during "bedding in" period verges on charlatanry. but if you wish your knowledge was based on pure superstition that's fine. you only shouldn't run about and shout that it's true because some people may actually believe you.

Excuse me, but I didn't claim any "miraculous transformation". I'm sure your last sentence makes sense to you, but it doesn't to me.

Interesting surname Oldric....

You don't pop up on any Google searches other than this forum, so I can only assume our paths have met before, but under a different pseudonym, or maybe you belong to 'another group'. As you say though, this pointless argument that you started isn't helping the OP, whereas I'm trying to, so if we can get back on topic, that'd be marvellous

 

[Sabby]

To quote from the WHF review of the Kef Q300’s:
“ Slightly thin high frequencies mean you must be sure to carefully system-match them”

Clearly then we are looking at a mismatch here, a lack of system synergy. So the answer would appear to be a change of either amp or speakers.

 

[Overdose]

I think the clue to the problem here is that the system sounded fine when in the demo room, but only appeared to sound harsh when the envirnment changed.

Maybe some room accoustic treatment as previously suggested.

Forget faffing with speaker cables, the harshness you have described seems to be an obvious trait and not some almost imperceptible nuance.

Also, as has been mentioned, look at different speakers. These will have the most dramatic effect on sound and may be easier to replace than rearranging your room or covering it in accoustic panels and the like. Expensive, maybe, but then if you don't like what you are hearing, the entire system is a waste of time and money until the problem is rectified.

 

[emptage]

It is difficult for me to do anything with the room acoustics, there is a carpet on the sold floor and we have big heavy curtains and a fabric suite.

Changing the amp is difficult as I bought it SH. I could try the shop I bought the speakers from but they don't have any other speakers below £1000. I think I will also try naim speaker cable if I can borrow some

 

[Ambrose]

Hi Emptage,

I can sympathise as I have had very similiar issue in the past. IE Nait 3 / CD5i and Totem Arrow speakers which sounded great at the shop but very fatiguing at home. Now I am no expert but have had a few systems over the years.

My lounge was very reflective, no curtains and wooden floor.

My solution was not perfect but allowed for me to enjoy music as follows.

I tried various different speaker cables and yes they made a noticable difference to the sound. However, not enough for me. Strangly I never tried the NACA5, not sure why.

I added rug and some sofa covers which helped a little.

I ended up changing speakers to Spendor S5/e however which made biggest difference. These being a lot more relaxed and smoother sounding. I have no idea what the Kefs sound like in comparision.

On speaker cables......... I ended up with Audioquest Bedrock (also used by a friend) and these worked for me giving very good bass, full sounding and not being harsh at the top. Yes expensive!!! Other cables tried were QED XT400 I think from memory = too harsh. Nordost flatline gold = pacey but not so full bodied. Chord Odyssey which were good, clean sounding but not so full bodied as Audioquest.

Anyway, just thought i'd share thoughts as the Naim pairing is my favourite and hope you can find a suitable solution.

As other person mentioned, if you do end up trying other speaker, do so at home! But might be worth to try other speaker cables although I can now recommend the NACA5 as this does work great with my Nait 5i.

Do let us know what you end up doing.

Ambrose

 

[Frank Harvey]

I think the clue to the problem here is that the system sounded fine when in the demo room, but only appeared to sound harsh when the envirnment changed.

Well this is the main reason I mentioned the possibility that the system (speakers mainly) may not be run in properly. If the system sounded fine in the demo room, then there's nothing inherently wrong with the system, which I can vouch for anyway as we've demo'd that system many times, and others have bought other models in the Q series to go with Naim too.

Emptage has since mentioned that his floor is carpeted, and that he has heavy curtains, and he's also tried moving the speakers further away from the side walls, to no effect.

As long as the speakers are in phase, everything seems to be fine. I would recommend that OP to get in touch with his dealer and make his situation known, if he hasn't already, and ask if he can either loan their demo Q300's which are run in, or a different pair of speakers in order to narrow down what the issue is.

 

[dannycanham]

I wouldn't bother trying cables with such an obvious trait. As your speakers have been tried run in, away from walls and you have reasonable carpeting/sofas?/curtains then that’s most of the room checked. Are you seated close the rear wall? Maybe moving the seating further away from rear reflections may help.

However I am not a fan of metal domed tweeters and despite many people happily buying them, there are also a number of people who find them difficult to cater for at home. I can’t for a start, and a good friend stopped using his hi-fi altogether after being sold on a system that included metal domed tweeters. They were great in his flat but cannot be tamed in the house he moved to. There are speakers like Dali’s and Spendor’s and I’m sure people can recommend many others that stay on the sweeter side in a greater range of situations.

 

[ashcorn]

I would also agree with leaving it on all the time. I also find it sounds better after about 30 mins of playing.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Intersting - turn mine off when not in use except if I forget, and can't say I notice any difference at all.

 

[Dan Turner]

Intersting - turn mine off when not in use except if I forget, and can't say I notice any difference at all.

Seriously, and I know that many will mock, leave it turned on continuously and see what you think after 5 days or so.

To the OP: I would advise the same as above. Plus experiment further with speaker positioning in the meantime. Generally the further from side walls the better, but try moving the speakers both further and nearer to the rear wall, plus experiment with the toe-in (or not). In both cases change by small increments. Also ensure the stands are as solid and inert as possible - fill them if they aren't already.

 

[emptage]

Thanks for all the helpful comments. Yesterday I spoke to the shop I bought the speakers from. They are also Naim dealers although I didn't buy my amp or cd there. The very helpful chap said to leave the amp and cd on permanently and continue running in the speakers by putting something through them continuously. I also tried using the speaker cable I used with my old system. This cable is 20-25 years old, it was cheap bog standard multistrand cable. The total thickness of all the copperstrands is about twice as thick as the chord silverscreen copper strands. The difference was remarkable, the harshness had gone but with it a lot of the detail and clarity that I like so much with the KEF's. I am surprised that the cable made so much difference. So now I am looking for a cable which will retain the clarity and detail but take of some of the harshness. My dealer has offered to lend me some Naim cable. Any other suggestions please but not very expensive stuff please.

 

[nopiano]

I suggest stick to choosing between your old multistrand, the Chord, and the Naim cables. That's quite enough for the moment!

You'll only get 10 different ideas which won't really help right now.

Keep us posted on the running in....

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi emptage

As i said earlier on i'll recommend that you should consider using standard 500 strand OFC speaker cables. These speaker cables cost very little money and importantly i've found they also work a treat with Naim amplification.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[chebby]

Hi emptage

As i said earlier on i'll recommend that you should consider using standard 500 strand OFC speaker cables. These speaker cables cost very little money and importantly i've found they also work a treat with Naim amplification.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

He has already tried something similar...

...it was cheap bog standard multistrand cable. The total thickness of all the copperstrands is about twice as thick as the chord silverscreen copper strands. The difference was remarkable, the harshness had gone but with it a lot of the detail and clarity that I like so much with the KEF's.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I normally don't like cables with too many strands. The more strands there are, generally the softer and warmer the sound is, which can hide a few sins on bright sounding systems, but remove leading edge detail on more accurate systems. I don't like softening the signal between electronic components - if you smooth out the signal between the CD and amp, the amp will be amplifying that softened signal. If you get my meaning.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Seriously, and I know that many will mock, leave it turned on continuously and see what you think after 5 days or so.

I did for a week, in error. Sounded exactly the same.

Maybe, now Naim's gone all French , it's linked up with EDF in some way?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi chebby

Unless the multi strand speaker cable which the OP has tried is 500 strand then i don't see any harm in recommending these to him. These speaker cables could give the OP what he's looking for and for very little money. Ime these cables work perfectly well with many amplifiers and speakers such as from Naim and KEF. Fwiw, i've also got clients who are happily using these cables with Naim amplification and KEF speakers.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Ambrose]

Hi Emptage,

Yes it is surprising the effect that speaker cable has, can be quite dramatic, although not readers would agree I suspect.

I would go along with nopiano, try and borrow the Naca5, a better chord cable (odyssey?) at least and try at home.

Best if cables are already run in as well!

Ambrose

 

[Anonymous]

Any updates on this?