New KEF Studio monitors - any good?

[Frank Harvey]

Why are you insinuating that anything i know, i've learned from another forum? Do you not think that i'm perfectly capable of using my own logic and intelligence to learn?

Why do you think that i'm fighting? David. I'm calmly responding, in a polite manner, to questions from yourself and others.

Answer the questions then instead of avoiding them! :doh:

 

[the record spot]

This is getting a little weird, guys :?

Yes Max, it is and I find it so that you feel the need to post and repost threads like these when you presumably are aware of what you're doing. EDITED stirring by any other name.

 

[paradiziac]

Thanks for that, I found it really informative. No doubt some people will dismiss it as 'having an agenda', but hopefully others will find it useful.

Indeed, it was an interesting read from John Dawson, thanks. Surprized he even bothered to join in considering the level of the debate.

Reading between the lines a little, he seems to be implying that actives don't make commercial sense because there would be insufficient demand for them at the prices the mainstream companies would have to charge in implementing a high quality product.

Makes sense. Although music is first for me, I still like tailoring my system and box swapping, even cable swapping sometimes! I suspect there are many like me. Cure my "upgraditis" with a set of actives? No thanks!

Looking forward to reading what a well-designed driver and cabinet can sound like...

 

[Frank Harvey]

There you go Max. Paradiziac is a perfect case in point as to an earlier point I was making. There are people that just aren't going to go the active route, for whatever reason. Why can't that be accepted? I accept that actives can sound better - why can't you accept that some people either don't want to go active, or prefer a passive set up?

I don't even know why I'm continuing to try and make any points....

 

[Anonymous]

Well, he's not trying to pass himself off as an authority, nor is he beating a drum, flogging a dead horse, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

I imagine my Onkyo, to answer your earlier question Max, would drive the LS50s comfortably.

Was i not simply being honest, RS? Why do you constantly feel the need to put your own spin on my honest, polite comments?

PS, answer that honestly and you might surprise yourself with the answer...

I doubt I will Max, you've posted here with comments that would suggest you know quite a bit about speaker design and you've continuously posted and reposted to the same effect subsequently. I think that covers off 1, 2 & 3 except that we know with 1, you're not a designer, merely adding posts based on what you've picked up off the former HDD now AVI Forum. The rest you might've googled, whatever.

Of course, if I'm wrong and you've recently started on the relevant courses that would eventually give you the kind of experience Martin Grindrod has, or Dr. Paul Mills at Tannoy, John Dawson from Arcam and so on, then I take it all back.

Lastly, you're right, not all passives sound better than separates, even cheap actives that some appeear to believe.

Certainly you heard the shortcomings of the Alesis M1 and the KRK's and having heard the latter, I am happy that my own setup outperforms those both in performance to my liking and the underlying functionality offered.

I've never once said or suggested that i know quite a bit about speaker design. And again, you're attatching an agenda to me that you're declaring i picked up from a forum that i only landed on having been banned from here, after questioning moderation, after a thread i started, about active speakers, was locked.

Now you're name dropping, people you know that work in your field, perhaps? Or people you've read about? Did you google them?

Why are you constantly attacking me? Am i not being honest, friendly and sincere in my exchanges with you? What's your issue with me?

But Max, here you are again, trying to turn the tables. You don't need to say it, you're behaviour on here and comments therein around actives posit you as implying so without statement.

And please don't try to play dumb; John Dawson you replied to and attempted to tell him about speaker design. I can only assume his silence is because he's gone back to night school. Martin Grindrod you know by name at least by your time on the AVI forum. Dr. Paul Mills is the Tannoy designer, or perhaps more accurately, the designer that Tannoy had design the speakers I use. I read up on my product and found his name mentioned. No more no less. The reasons why I posted their names were to highlight the point I made in my earlier post (of you passing yourself off as some kind of authority on the topic of actives).

And I don't have an issue with you Max. I have an issue with the manner in which you're posting on here.

Actually, RS, i'd hazard a guess that observers of this thread might take issue with the manner in which you're responding!!

This little tit for tat threesome started when i gave my honest and personal opinion, based on my experience, on active vs passive speakers, and you're so entrenched in your side of this silly thing that you completely fail to see that it's set you off, but others will :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

There you go Max. Paradiziac is a perfect case in point as to an earlier point I was making. There are people that just aren't going to go the active route, for whatever reason. Why can't that be accepted? I accept that actives can sound better - why can't you accept that some people either don't want to go active, or prefer a passive set up?

I don't even know why I'm continuing to try and make any points....

You're asking me to accept what i've said i always have accepted, you're losing it, seriously. You're prejudice is arguing with somebody who isn't, with respect, get a grip...

 

[Frank Harvey]

You're asking me to accept what i've said i always have accepted, you're losing it, seriously. You're prejudice is arguing with somebody who isn't, with respect, get a grip...

It's not working Max, so you can drop the table turning routine that you're trying on me and RS.

So you're not going to answer the relevant questions? If you don't want to answer questions about the subject, refrain from bringing it up in the first place. If you start it, see it through - its the decent thing to do.

 

[Anonymous]

This is getting a little weird, guys :?

Yes Max, it is and I find it so that you feel the need to post and repost threads like these when you presumably are aware of what you're doing. EDITED stirring by any other name.

Following a post by fr0g, David asked questions, i answered. That makes me a EDITED stirrer?

 

[the record spot]

Actually, RS, i'd hazard a guess that observers of this thread might take issue with the manner in which you're responding!!

This little tit for tat threesome started when i gave my honest and personal opinion, based on my experience, on active vs passive speakers, and you're so entrenched in your side of this silly thing that you completely fail to see that it's set you off, but others will :roll:

Would you Max? Really? And would that be your own guess or one you Googled. (Sorry, these are the jokes folks!) :-0

And happenchance observers might well think as you suggest. Then again, if they'd spent anytime reading through the history of the last few days, they might understand.

And what is "my side" Max? Hmmm? What exactly is my side? Do tell...oh, and please don't try the cod psychology with me. Doesn't work y'see.

 

[Anonymous]

You're asking me to accept what i've said i always have accepted, you're losing it, seriously. You're prejudice is arguing with somebody who isn't, with respect, get a grip...

It's not working Max, so you can drop the table turning routine that you're trying on me and RS.

So you're not going to answer the relevant questions? If you don't want to answer questions about the subject, refrain from bringing it up in the first place. If you start it, see it through - its the decent thing to do.

What on Earth are you talking about?

 

[the record spot]

This is getting a little weird, guys :?

Yes Max, it is and I find it so that you feel the need to post and repost threads like these when you presumably are aware of what you're doing. EDITED stirring by any other name.

Following a post by fr0g, David asked questions, i answered. That makes me a EDITED stirrer?

Your pattern of posting threads and the manner you've gone about it might suggest that. Are you Max?

 

[Frank Harvey]

I asked you a couple of relevant questions Max, but you're avoiding them for whatever reason. Are you going to answer them?

Do pro places sell passive speakers and electronics? Or are they just walls of active speakers?

And are you in favour of active speakers over passive, or just accurate sounding speakers?

They're very simple questions Max - a 12 year old can answer them.

 

[Anonymous]

This is getting a little weird, guys :?

Yes Max, it is and I find it so that you feel the need to post and repost threads like these when you presumably are aware of what you're doing. EDITED stirring by any other name.

Following a post by fr0g, David asked questions, i answered. That makes me a EDITED stirrer?

Your pattern of posting threads and the manner you've gone about it might suggest that. Are you Max?

No, RS. You've got the issue here, you don't want to see these type of threads (i didn't start this one, btw), and You need to explain why they bother you so much...

Why, RS? Why are you continually trying to bring these kind of threads to an end with you're regular, late night sermons? Be honest with yourself???

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

we should all sell our speakers and go buy some quad or similar electrostatics, no crossovers, distortion levels lower than any cone/dome based speaker can dream of.

And getting on for 50 odd year old design.

Stick that in your active/passive pipe and smoke it!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce:

good point! and that's my idea too. ESLs have their limitations too, however. most notably lowish dynamic range. but in case of level of distortion few can compete (not even the best active dynamic speakers). 8)

 

[Anonymous]

I asked you a couple of relevant questions Max, but you're avoiding them for whatever reason. Are you going to answer them?

Do pro places sell passive speakers and electronics? Or are they just walls of active speakers?

And are you in favour of active speakers over passive, or just accurate sounding speakers?

They're very simple questions Max - a 12 year old can answer them.

Why would i answer those questions? After the barrage of abuse the last ones i answered caused. And why do you care if i answer them? Seriously, my opinions don't seem to fit with the answers you need for you to remain friendly, now do they?

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'll ask some 12 year olds tomorrow, they'll understand, and answer.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, i sincerely hope the mods don't remove all these posts since i answered the questions asked of me, because to answer just one more, what makes me determined to prove a point? Maybe start a thread? One thing above all else, it's to get fairness, fairness and openness to discuss something, even if it goes against an agenda, and i hope that this little interaction stays for others to see, i think that is only fair that it does, because it proves far more than data sheets and demoes do,IMO.

Thanks...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Well, enough of this circular tattle/reverse psychology, I'm off to bed. I've got rubbish passive speakers to audition tomorrow. If I hear "horrendous distortions", I'll be sure to pop on and set your mind at rest Max. In the meantime, take your time with those questions - you can answer in your own time

If you're going to join up to a forum and be so vocal about a subject or product, you have to be prepared to be questioned about it. Reluctance to answer is only going to reflect upon yourself.

 

[fr0g]

It's all about the money.

And there was me beginning to think you were being nice about it. They're £800, and they'll cost no more than £800 to someone who already has an amp and speakers. They'll cost more to someone starting out for the first time or to someone moving back to passive from active.

Stop with the stupid, petty nitpicking.

Ok. Yes, I got the price wrong. I was reading about them on a US site silly me. But I am not nitpicking.

The point (if I remember rightly) was that one (if not 'the') reason for the sparcity of actives is an economics one as there is less money in it in both the short and long term.

But I imagine these baby Kefs will fit in perfectly with some systems. I personally like their look and would love to maybe see an active version of them too...

 

[the record spot]

No, RS. You've got the issue here, you don't want to see these type of threads (i didn't start this one, btw), and You need to explain why they bother you so much...

Why, RS? Why are you continually trying to bring these kind of threads to an end with you're regular, late night sermons? Be honest with yourself???

I've no issue with these threads Max, it was a question about KEF's new speaker, but it's yet another thread that's been derailed into active v. passive which you've played a handsome part in. Matthewpiano was bang on and it helps no-one. We don't need these things being dripfed in about which is the more technically preferable. That's not always what people want, nor is it the driving force for every purchase. Life ain't that black and white Max.

LOL @ the comment re: "my late night sermons"...cod psychology week seems to be flourishing in your part of the world Max.

 

[Bobbyhifi]

Wow, this really did cause some debate!

I didn't mean to start all this off really! Last year I came to this site for some advice on my home cinema system and there was a lot of useful information on here helping me make my decisions. In the end I went for a system based on what I heard for myself after making a shortlist based on that.

Because of this advice I came back to look for help with some monitors for my admittedly small and low-tech home studio, on the main page I saw talk of these new Kef monitor speakers, looked at their website where there some nice stories about the design and bold claims about the performance. I figured they must be good so asked for opinion on them, not realising that only a couple of people seem to have actually heard them yet.

On good advice from earlier in the thread I decided it was best to go and actually listen to some monitors for myself, I gave my opinion on this process which seems to have ignited more debate, I didn't mean my findings to cause an argument - I'm not part of some great active vs passive speaker debate, I use passive speakers in my cinema system and from discussion on "pro" forums and with the shop it seems that active speakers are just the accepted norm for the monitoring role.

In my demo I preferred active speakers for monitoring as well, sadly I couldn't try the Kef's and there wasn't a great range of passive speakers to really compare against, with the one passive vs active comparison from the same manufacturer that was available I much preferred the active. To me it sounded more accurate and natural, this is just my opinion, I'm not an expert so no offence to anyone who disagrees, I am not able to test all active vs passive speakers sadly so I have to base my view on that demo with that gear. I trust my own opinion over anyone elses when it comes to my choices.

I am not making my purchase for the next couple of weeks so I may well get to listen to the Kef's at a dealer somewhere, however I haven't had the best experiences with Hi-Fi dealers before, being fairly pushy about me listening to what they wanted me to, not in the friendly advice way like the pro shop but a "we're right, you're wrong" kind of way as I said. I understand that not all dealers are like this but in no other place I've purchased anything were reviews and ratings quoted at me as fact that must be obeyed! This was similar at two dealers I went to so not a large sample group admittedly.

On the pro forums I've looked at no-one is mentioning these Kef speakers, no-one really talks much about passive speakers in general, not that they're right or wrong, it's just how it is. This is why I went off my own topic, when I came in I knew little about the current market but have since done more research of my own and spoken to people in that area. Frank said the Kef speakers won't be going to Pro shops which seems a strange choice as a Pro product to me but what do I know! As much as it will be interesting to hear his thoughts on them later I doubt it will be anything but a glowing review as I saw in another thread he was one of Kef's biggest dealers. This is not to say he is anything but honest and I mean no offence but I highly doubt he'd bite the hand that feeds him. Again thank you for the advice but I'll make up my own mind if I get the chance to hear them, though it's a shame I won't be able to do so against similar product directly.

As it stands I'm happy with the choice I've made but if I can get a demo of the Kef's I'll try to go back and listen to the Acoustic Energy's on the same day with the same material, that's if the shop let me after taking up a whole afternoon of theirs already!

In looking through this forum this week it seems to me that there is a lot of argument and generally unfriendly behaviour from quite a few people, I'm not sure why, it's just a forum about Hi-Fi, it's not life or death. It's almost like there are gangs and bullying going on as if it were a School playground! People should relax a little! Have a look around Pro forums and see what the atmosphere is like there, people are opinionated of course but it's taken as just that and no-one takes offence or gives it for that matter. I'm sorry if I'm out of line in saying this, it's just how it looks to me!

So once again, thank you all for the great advice where it's been given and thank you for the contributions from some fairly important people, it's all been useful to me in one way or another! I expect I'll pop back in and update nearer the time and if I have a demo of the Kef speakers. As I do with most of my free evenings I'm going to have a nice home cinema session tonight and if I may be so bold I'd suggest a lot of people here try that too, it'll help you unwind! That's why you buy this gear after all!! :rofl:

Thanks again,

Rob.

 

[John Duncan]

Well it all appears to have gone a bit Pete Tong, doesn't it...?