New KEF Studio monitors - any good?

[Frank Harvey]

I'll be interested to see if anyone is interested in answering my previous questions....

This is a thread about studio monitors, that are claimed by KEF to be the most accurate on the planet, so it was kind of inevitable that comparisons with active studio monitors would come into it.

Yeah, but people are making comparisons based on the fact that they're passive, and making huge assumptions about how they will, and how they won't, sound. Surely, at this point, we should wait and see what people think who have actually heard the speakers rather than judging them before they even hit the stores. It's like saying Prometheus is going to be crap.

And again, i don't see anyone saying all actives are better or actives are the be all and end all, so why do some people keep insisting that others are saying exactly that? When they're not.

Can you not see why?

 

[the record spot]

And again, i don't see anyone saying all actives are better or actives are the be all and end all, so why do some people keep insisting that others are saying exactly that? When they're not.

Indeed.

 

[gregvet]

If the Hi-fi stores stocked Brand A's speakers in passive and active, assuming they were well implemented, it wouldn't matter which amp they tried with the passive, as the active would be better, and probably cheaper. So less sales. Not to mention the diminished likelihood of upgraditis further down the line.

See I just don't buy this argument. Joe blogs may go in to the shop wanting speaker a (passive version) plus amp b, or with a budget of x, but any good salesman is going to be able to not only show joe speaker a (active version) at less overall cost than x, but an even better active speaker that ends up costing joe his budget of x and gets him an even better overall system. The same total sale price so the shop is no worse off. Anyone into Hifi is going to struggle to spend less than their budget to get the second best system they have heard IMO.

Im sure you will then go on to tell me that the profit margins are lower as the charitable active speaker makers don't like anyone making any profit, but that's just speculation and IMO BS (unless anyone can demonstrate comparative retailer profit margins passive vs active).

In the mean time if active joe wants to upgrade he has to buy a whole new system and can't change any individual part of it, effectively buying a whole new system, not just a single item upgrade. If the active speaker replaces some combination of dac, pre amp, power amp, integrated amp, speaker cable, and speakers, then joe can upgrade an aspect of his passive system approx four times for the equivalent of one active upgrade. Several active lovers on here are on their fourth active system, that the equivalent of 16 individual component changes. I've never even bought 16 individual components and I have two separate systems!

 

[jiggyjoe]

we should all sell our speakers and go buy some quad or similar electrostatics, no crossovers, distortion levels lower than any cone/dome based speaker can dream of.

And getting on for 50 odd year old design.

Stick that in your active/passive pipe and smoke it!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce:

 

[fr0g]

Sorry, it needed that. Either way. I doubt it. If the Hi-fi stores stocked Brand A's speakers in passive and active, assuming they were well implemented, it wouldn't matter which amp they tried with the passive, as the active would be better, and probably cheaper. So less sales. Not to mention the diminished likelihood of upgraditis further down the line.

I don't think so. As has been mentioned numerous times, and something which the active brigade can't seem to let sink into their brains, is that not everyone wants an active solution! A lot of people are happy with separates as they can choose what they want, tailor their system, and choose speakers that they like the look of (yes,mthat is important to people nowadays!).

You are right of course, I am arguing from a "high fidelity audio" standpoint, not a fancy furniture one. And I agree, not everyone wants the same thing. And at the moment there is little in the way of actives to choose from in that department. I am certain these KEFs will be awesome passives. They will probably sing like nightingales in Spring on the end of a high quality amp. Total cost in the region of 2 to 3 grand.

It's all about the money.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll be interested to see if anyone is interested in answering my previous questions....

This is a thread about studio monitors, that are claimed by KEF to be the most accurate on the planet, so it was kind of inevitable that comparisons with active studio monitors would come into it.

Yeah, but people are making comparisons based on the fact that they're passive, and making huge assumptions about how they will, and how they won't, sound. Surely, at this point, we should wait and see what people think who have actually heard the speakers rather than judging them before they even hit the stores. It's like saying Prometheus is going to be crap.

And again, i don't see anyone saying all actives are better or actives are the be all and end all, so why do some people keep insisting that others are saying exactly that? When they're not.

Can you not see why?

I think i know why, but do the people saying so know why?

As to why are some people supporting actives? Strange choice of words, i personally don't support them, i think that even cheap, flawed active speakers are better than most Passive speakers i've owned, and that high quality actives like mine are much better than any passive speakers i've owned or heard, perhaps others would disagree if they demoed them against everything i've heard.

I also believe, based on my own experience and what i've read, that good active speakers are more accurate sounding and have greater clarity and balance, than good passive speakers, because of the benefits an active crossover.

Now that's a pretty clear, personal analysis.

Does it read like i'm declaring that all active speakers are better than all passives? Or that i'm declaring that active speakers are "the be all and end all"? Or does it seem obvious that my poor little mind has been brainwashed by some nasty active spindoctor?

 

[Frank Harvey]

It's all about the money.

And there was me beginning to think you were being nice about it. They're £800, and they'll cost no more than £800 to someone who already has an amp and speakers. They'll cost more to someone starting out for the first time or to someone moving back to passive from active.

Stop with the stupid, petty nitpicking.

 

[Anonymous]

It's all about the money.

And there was me beginning to think you were being nice about it. They're £800, and they'll cost no more than £800 to someone who already has an amp and speakers. They'll cost more to someone starting out for the first time or to someone moving back to passive from active.

Stop with the stupid, petty nitpicking.

So David, what price bracket of amp will be the minimum required for them? And what price bracket of amp will be needed so that all that Sterling really grips them?

 

[chebby]

You missed Paul's wedding music thread Max.

Last time I looked at it, no-one was talking about active speakers!

 

[Frank Harvey]

As to why are some people supporting actives? Strange choice of words, i personally don't support them, i think that even cheap, flawed active speakers are better than most Passive speakers i've owned, and that high quality actives like mine are much better than any passive speakers i've owned or heard, perhaps others would disagree if they demoed them against everything i've heard.

Did you read that back before posting it? You've basically slagged off most passives in favour of even crap actives.

I also believe, based on my own experience and what i've read, that good active speakers are more accurate sounding and have greater clarity and balance, than good passive speakers, because of the benefits an active crossover.

Now that's a pretty clear, personal analysis.

Does it read like i'm declaring that all active speakers are better than all passives?

Yup, read your paragraph above.

Or that i'm declaring that active speakers are "the be all and end all"? Or does it seem obvious that my poor little mind has been brainwashed by some nasty active spindoctor?

Well you do spout the same ****, almost word for word.

 

[Anonymous]

You missed Paul's wedding music thread Max.

Last time I looked at it, no-one was talking about active speakers!

You know the difference now, Chebby?

 

[Frank Harvey]

So David, what price bracket of amp will be the minimum required for them?

I don't know as I haven't heard them yet. All I can do is guess, but guessing would be a pretty stupid thing to do, wouldn't it?

 

[Frank Harvey]

You missed Paul's wedding music thread Max.

Last time I looked at it, no-one was talking about active speakers!

Once he starts in there, it'll be your fault

 

[Anonymous]

As to why are some people supporting actives? Strange choice of words, i personally don't support them, i think that even cheap, flawed active speakers are better than most Passive speakers i've owned, and that high quality actives like mine are much better than any passive speakers i've owned or heard, perhaps others would disagree if they demoed them against everything i've heard.

Did you read that back before posting it? You've basically slagged off most passives in favour of even crap actives.

I also believe, based on my own experience and what i've read, that good active speakers are more accurate sounding and have greater clarity and balance, than good passive speakers, because of the benefits an active crossover.

Now that's a pretty clear, personal analysis.

Does it read like i'm declaring that all active speakers are better than all passives?

Yup, read your paragraph above.

Or that i'm declaring that active speakers are "the be all and end all"? Or does it seem obvious that my poor little mind has been brainwashed by some nasty active spindoctor?

Well you do spout the same ****, almost word for word.

That's me giving my honest, personal opinions, based on my personal experience, David. I suspect that your inate, subconscious prejudices are typing, you may want to take control of that.

 

[the record spot]

Well, he's not trying to pass himself off as an authority, nor is he beating a drum, flogging a dead horse, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

I imagine my Onkyo, to answer your earlier question Max, would drive the LS50s comfortably.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, he's not trying to pass himself off as an authority, nor is he beating a drum, flogging a dead horse, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

I imagine my Onkyo, to answer your earlier question Max, would drive the LS50s comfortably.

Was i not simply being honest, RS? Why do you constantly feel the need to put your own spin on my honest, polite comments?

PS, answer that honestly and you might surprise yourself with the answer...

 

[chebby]

You missed Paul's wedding music thread Max.

Last time I looked at it, no-one was talking about active speakers!

You know the difference now, Chebby?

Maybe you should teach us all again just to make absolutely sure.

Just give us a while to get some eggs to suck.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That's me giving my honest, personal opinions, based on my personal experience, David. I suspect that your inate, subconscious prejudices are typing, you may want to take control of that.

Thats you, banging the active drum, which is all you've done ever since they've let you back on here.

So as well as an audio expert, youre now a therapist? Hmmm.

There's nothing subconscious or prejudiced about what I'm typing to you Max. It's coming from the heart.

 

[Anonymous]

That's me giving my honest, personal opinions, based on my personal experience, David. I suspect that your inate, subconscious prejudices are typing, you may want to take control of that.

Thats you, banging the active drum, which is all you've done ever since they've let you back on here.

So as well as an audio expeet, youre now a therapist? Hmmm.

There's nothing subconscious or prejudiced about what I'm typing to you Max. It's coming from the heart.

That's me giving my own, personal experiences, David, your not comfortable with them, and try to deny them their legitimacy. Why is this? David..

 

[the record spot]

Well, he's not trying to pass himself off as an authority, nor is he beating a drum, flogging a dead horse, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

I imagine my Onkyo, to answer your earlier question Max, would drive the LS50s comfortably.

Was i not simply being honest, RS? Why do you constantly feel the need to put your own spin on my honest, polite comments?

PS, answer that honestly and you might surprise yourself with the answer...

I doubt I will Max, you've posted here with comments that would suggest you know quite a bit about speaker design and you've continuously posted and reposted to the same effect subsequently. I think that covers off 1, 2 & 3 except that we know with 1, you're not a designer, merely adding posts based on what you've picked up off the former HDD now AVI Forum. The rest you might've googled, whatever.

Of course, if I'm wrong and you've recently started on the relevant courses that would eventually give you the kind of experience Martin Grindrod has, or Dr. Paul Mills at Tannoy, John Dawson from Arcam and so on, then I take it all back.

Lastly, you're right, not all passives sound better than separates, even cheap actives that some appeear to believe.

Certainly you heard the shortcomings of the Alesis M1 and the KRK's and having heard the latter, I am happy that my own setup outperforms those both in performance to my liking and the underlying functionality offered.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, he's not trying to pass himself off as an authority, nor is he beating a drum, flogging a dead horse, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

I imagine my Onkyo, to answer your earlier question Max, would drive the LS50s comfortably.

Was i not simply being honest, RS? Why do you constantly feel the need to put your own spin on my honest, polite comments?

PS, answer that honestly and you might surprise yourself with the answer...

I doubt I will Max, you've posted here with comments that would suggest you know quite a bit about speaker design and you've continuously posted and reposted to the same effect subsequently. I think that covers off 1, 2 & 3 except that we know with 1, you're not a designer, merely adding posts based on what you've picked up off the former HDD now AVI Forum. The rest you might've googled, whatever.

Of course, if I'm wrong and you've recently started on the relevant courses that would eventually give you the kind of experience Martin Grindrod has, or Dr. Paul Mills at Tannoy, John Dawson from Arcam and so on, then I take it all back.

Lastly, you're right, not all passives sound better than separates, even cheap actives that some appeear to believe.

Certainly you heard the shortcomings of the Alesis M1 and the KRK's and having heard the latter, I am happy that my own setup outperforms those both in performance to my liking and the underlying functionality offered.

I've never once said or suggested that i know quite a bit about speaker design. And again, you're attatching an agenda to me that you're declaring i picked up from a forum that i only landed on having been banned from here, after questioning moderation, after a thread i started, about active speakers, was locked.

Now you're name dropping, people you know that work in your field, perhaps? Or people you've read about? Did you google them?

Why are you constantly attacking me? Am i not being honest, friendly and sincere in my exchanges with you? What's your issue with me?

 

[the record spot]

That's me giving my honest, personal opinions, based on my personal experience, David. I suspect that your inate, subconscious prejudices are typing, you may want to take control of that.

Thats you, banging the active drum, which is all you've done ever since they've let you back on here.

So as well as an audio expeet, youre now a therapist? Hmmm.

There's nothing subconscious or prejudiced about what I'm typing to you Max. It's coming from the heart.

That's me giving my own, personal experiences, David, your not comfortable with them, and try to deny them their legitimacy. Why is this? David..

Yes Max, but it's more and more obvious that with more of these kinds of posts, you're not really here to add anything to the body of this forum, just disrupt it. It's part of your MO.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That's me giving my own, personal experiences, David, your not comfortable with them, and try to deny them their legitimacy. Why is this? David..

Like I said, is this Max The Therapist coming out now? Which forum did you learn that from?

Ive come across this avoiding, table turning tactic before Max, and I don't pamper to it any more.

As I mentioned earlier, which you didn't really answer - is it active speakers you're fighting for or is it accurate speakers in general?

And do pro places keep a range of active speakers and electronics? Or is it just a wall of active speakers?

 

[Anonymous]

That's me giving my own, personal experiences, David, your not comfortable with them, and try to deny them their legitimacy. Why is this? David..

Like I said, is this Max The Therapist coming out now? Which forum did you learn that from?

Ive come across this avoiding, table turning tactic before Max, and I don't pamper to it any more.

As I mentioned earlier, which you didn't really answer - is it active speakers you're fighting for or is it accurate speakers in general?

And do pro places keep a range of assize speakers and electronics? Or is it just a wall of active speakers?

Why are you insinuating that anything i know, i've learned from another forum? Do you not think that i'm perfectly capable of using my own logic and intelligence to learn?

Why do you think that i'm fighting? David. I'm calmly responding, in a polite manner, to questions from yourself and others.

This is getting a little weird, guys :?

 

[the record spot]

Well, he's not trying to pass himself off as an authority, nor is he beating a drum, flogging a dead horse, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

I imagine my Onkyo, to answer your earlier question Max, would drive the LS50s comfortably.

Was i not simply being honest, RS? Why do you constantly feel the need to put your own spin on my honest, polite comments?

PS, answer that honestly and you might surprise yourself with the answer...

I doubt I will Max, you've posted here with comments that would suggest you know quite a bit about speaker design and you've continuously posted and reposted to the same effect subsequently. I think that covers off 1, 2 & 3 except that we know with 1, you're not a designer, merely adding posts based on what you've picked up off the former HDD now AVI Forum. The rest you might've googled, whatever.

Of course, if I'm wrong and you've recently started on the relevant courses that would eventually give you the kind of experience Martin Grindrod has, or Dr. Paul Mills at Tannoy, John Dawson from Arcam and so on, then I take it all back.

Lastly, you're right, not all passives sound better than separates, even cheap actives that some appeear to believe.

Certainly you heard the shortcomings of the Alesis M1 and the KRK's and having heard the latter, I am happy that my own setup outperforms those both in performance to my liking and the underlying functionality offered.

I've never once said or suggested that i know quite a bit about speaker design. And again, you're attatching an agenda to me that you're declaring i picked up from a forum that i only landed on having been banned from here, after questioning moderation, after a thread i started, about active speakers, was locked.

Now you're name dropping, people you know that work in your field, perhaps? Or people you've read about? Did you google them?

Why are you constantly attacking me? Am i not being honest, friendly and sincere in my exchanges with you? What's your issue with me?

But Max, here you are again, trying to turn the tables. You don't need to say it, you're behaviour on here and comments therein around actives posit you as implying so without statement.

And please don't try to play dumb; John Dawson you replied to and attempted to tell him about speaker design. I can only assume his silence is because he's gone back to night school. Martin Grindrod you know by name at least by your time on the AVI forum. Dr. Paul Mills is the Tannoy designer, or perhaps more accurately, the designer that Tannoy had design the speakers I use. I read up on my product and found his name mentioned. No more no less. The reasons why I posted their names were to highlight the point I made in my earlier post (of you passing yourself off as some kind of authority on the topic of actives).

And I don't have an issue with you Max. I have an issue with the manner in which you're posting on here.