New Home Cinema System Advice

[Alec]

Another one for a friend this one. I've decided Im not up to the job as home cinema isnt really my thing as yet.

He wants to base a home cinema kit around either the Onkyo TXSR606 or the Onkyo TXSR506.

Now, he doesnt have much room in his posh cabinet, and doesnt want to replace it any time soon. The bigger of these amps is only just going to fit, with little room between the air vents at the shelf above - not even a fingers worth. For this reaon, plus budget (no more than £600 all in including speakers), he favours the 506.

About speakers - his couch is right up agains a wall, and this cant be changed. Also he has one side of the couch tight against the side wall, so speakers would havce to be wall mounted behind him. For this reason he was just going use a couple of budget floorstanders plus, in the future perhaps, a sub. However, he has seen the Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1s and wonders if these would do the job, and he could be persuaded by something a little more "style" based.

He has a PS3 and a panny 32" lcd to hook up to the amp.

Sorry, this could be more focused but im sure itll get that way with some help.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Anonymous]

NEVER tell anyone you're no good at anything. Inform them only when they ask. I told someone a few weeks ago I could build them a load of shelves and speaker mounts out of ÿ£800 worth of wood. I have no woodworking skills. (If my customer is reading this I'm sorry you got a bargain, don't complain).

 

[Alec]

Well are'nt you on hilarious form tonight - no really, laughed like a drain. My mate didnt tho!

Now, if anyone wants to give a serious opinion, feel free.

 

[Alec]

page 3 already? unashamed bump.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you thought about installing ventilation?

What is the clearance with the 606?ÿ

 

[Alec]

I'm not sure but to say a centimtre might even be generous.

 

[Anonymous]

Is it a closed cabinet?

 

[Alec]

yes, but theres quite a lot of ventilation at the back i think. so technically, i may mean "no". sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't really like to say without seeing it but these stories with the 875 don't affect the 606 because it doesn't run as hot (I'm sure someone will now disagree with me). If the air can circulate within the rack it will be OK.

 

[Alec]

Cheers!

If anyone has any speaker advice, baring in mind the budget...

As you can see from my op, theres a lot of persuadability there.

 

[professorhat]

What about the new Yamaha DSP-AX563 - about the same height and price as the 506 but, unlike the Onkyo, also accepts Multichannel PCM via the HDMI socket so this will allow your friend to enjoy all the new HD audio formats from Blu-Ray discs via his PS3. Definitely worth an audition.
As for speakers, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better home cinema speaker set up than the Q Acoustics 1010i package for the money.

 

[Alec]

Thanks proff! ill report all this back to him tommorow. im afraid he may take a lax attitude to auditions, but id liek to know whether the fancy audio formats are really noticeable, just out of interest. ill try talk hhim round.

 

[Alec]

p.s. just read the review of the yamaha. it reminded me that you also need hardware capable of sending out these formats too...

you see, this is why im no home cinema buff. yet. lol!

 

[professorhat]

You do indeed which is why the PS3 is perfect for the Yamaha. If he's thinking of upgrading his Blu-Ray player at some point and wants an amp which will decode these formats as well, then frankly he needs to up his budget I think!

 

[Alec]

Cheers. Up his budget by how much? Higher than the more pricey onkyo and the yamaha...?

 

[professorhat]

Nope, that's about right and then enough for some decent speakers to match it with e.g. with the Q Acoustics package and the Onkyo / Denon / Yamaha with onboard decoding, you're looking at approximately £800 - £850 I think. These of course include many other benefits (more HDMI in sockets, upscaling etc.).
Nothing wrong with getting the Yamaha I mentioned or indeed the Onkyo 506 as long as he's aware of the limitations in these systems i.e. Yamaha can only accept Multichannel PCM so he'd need a Blu-Ray player which could decode all the formats onboard like the PS3 and the Onkyo could only handle standard Dolby Digital / DTS. This may be all he needs / wants, just want to make sure it's an informed decision.

 

[Alec]

professorhat:just want to make sure it's an informed decision.

Absolutey, thanks proff. I'll have a chat with him later and come back about speakers if he really doesnt want to exceed 600, but i know he wants to get the amp right first and foremost.

Does the more expensive onkyo do it all, sound wise? EDIT - And does the ps3...?

How do people rate onkyo's own speakers...?

The more expensve onkyo plus th eq acoustics could be done for around 700 i rekon, so he may well go for it.

 

[professorhat]

The 606 will decode all the HD formats - the two main things going against is it doesn't include pre-outs (these would be necessary if he ever wanted to attach a stereo amp for music purposes) and also that WHF thought the Denon 1909 was better... (haven't actually heard either so can't comment personally). Given they're both 5 star products though, if he really likes the look of the Onk I wouldn't let the last point put you off and the Denon also has no pre-outs so...
The PS3 is unable to bitstream HD audio formats (i.e. send them in their native format) meaning it won't be using the more expensive Onkyo's decoding abilities. However, it can accept the Linear PCM signal from the PS3 making it a better bet than the 506.
Finally, if he's willing to buy in stages, this is where 5.1 packages like the Q Acoustics and even the Tannoy F1 Custom (even better than the Q Acoustics setup in my opinion) come into their own as all the speakers come separately so it's perfectly possible to just buy two fronts, then gradually add the sub, centre and rears as money allows.
My only concern on the larger Onkyo is the small amount of clearance for cooling. I'd really recommend getting it on a home demo from somewhere just to make sure he can run it without it overheating.

 

[Alec]

thanks again. i think his main attraction to the q acoustics is theyre relatively small as he needs to wall mount the rears. i think after them we may be looking at "style" packages. THpo even if he goes with the q acoustics, your point about buying in stages is a good one.

we need to sit and compare the specs of the 3 amps and see whats what with other features such as connections too i think. so far he shrugs when i mention sound formats, and, whereas my instinct tells me he would notice the difference, i dont actually know. plus it seems not to matter much as i dont think he has much intention of losing the ps3, and fitting another BR player in may be difficult, tho i will mention that to him.

Cheers.

 

[Alec]

hi prof et al - this is quite a tall order but i wonder if you could tell us how to connect his kit, assuming the q acoustics speakers - with each amp? Thing is, we have been comparing the specs of the amps, and he seems keen on the more expensive onk with the hdmi out - but we're not sure if thats what we think it is. So i thought this may be a good way to ask a few questions in one, even tho we are may not be sure what all those questions are yet lol!

I've not mentioned the tv model yet - its the panny tx 32lxd70.

 

[professorhat]

I think with most of them it should be the same i.e. speakers hook into the amp via standard speaker cable, PS3 hooks into the amp via HDMI in socket on the amp and amp hooks from the HDMI out on the amp into the TV's HDMI in. The only one that differs I think is the Onkyo 506 which would also need an optical cable going from the PS3 to the amp (as well as the above) since the 506 can't accept audio through it's HDMI in socket.

 

[Alec]

professorhat:I think with most of them it should be the same i.e. speakers hook into the amp via standard speaker cable, PS3 hooks into the amp via HDMI in socket on the amp and amp hooks from the HDMI out on the amp into the TV's HDMI in. The only one that differs I think is the Onkyo 506 which would also need an optical cable going from the PS3 to the amp (as well as the above) since the 506 can't accept audio through it's HDMI in socket.

So with the 506 ps3 - amp via hdmi.
then hdmi from amp to tv.
then optical cable from ps3 to amp...?

OR do we miss out that second stage? We're confused as we thought the 506 didnt have an hdmi out...?

EDIT - the spec on the review on this veritable site seems to suggest it should be hdmi alll the way, including audio with the cheaper onkyo amp...? confused again.

EDIT 2 - tho im probably being thick. the ps3 has just one hdmi thingy, and the things on the amp specify input and output. so does that mean theres no single connection on the amp that can take both the sound and vision from the one hdmi lead (which my friend says the hdmi does put out, and he reckons he's tried it)...?

As usual, i stand to be corrected.

 

[professorhat]

Sorry, been on a client site all day today. Okay...
The 506 does indeed have both HDMI inputs and one output, but it is unable to accept audio via this input, only video. So you can hook the PS3 to the 506 via one of the inputs, then hook the HDMI output on the 506 to the TV. This would give you video switching e.g. if you also had Sky HD, you can do the same so that when you switch the amp to the PS3's input, the picture also switches to the PS3's video source, and also when you switch the amp to the Sky HD input, the video also switches to the Sky video. Basically it saves you the step of switching the TV input as well as the Onkyo input as you'd always have this on the same one. Now if you only have one HDMI source (e.g. only the PS3), you might be better off hooking this straight up to the TV as this would save you buying two HDMI cables. It's only when you have more than one HDMI source (e.g. PS3, Xbox 360 Elite, DVD upscaler, Freeview box, Sky HD etc. etc.) that this becomes useful.
With the 506 therefore, since no audio is being accepted through the HDMI port, you would also have to connect the PS3 up via an optical cable to get sound to the amp. Through the Onkyo's menus, you could ensure that it knows that the video for the PS3 is being input via HDMI 1 (for example) and the sound for the PS3 was coming from Optical Input 1 - thus when you switch to PS3, both video and sound come out. You could then do the same for Sky HD e.g. plug Sky HD box into HDMI 2 and Sky's optical output into Optical Input 2 on the amp.
Now on the 606 and other amps, they will all accept sound via the HDMI port. So you can just hook the PS3 into the amp via one HDMI input and tell the amp that both sound and video are coming in here. When you then switch to this input, you will again get audio and video.
Hopefully the above makes sense!

 

[Alec]

i think we now understand! Thanks very much, thats much appreciated!

Now, what are fiery biscuits?

 

[professorhat]

Ah, for that, you would have to watch the Mighty Boosh.