New cartidge

[Al ears]

Benz micro gold that's 4 now *biggrin*

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but isn't the Benz a low output MC cart? Do you have an external MC stage or does your amp have both MC and MM stages?

It is, but there's the similar Benz Micro Silver, which is high output and can be used with an MM input.

You are correct however its £295 and, as far as I am aware also doesn't have a user replaceable stylus, so would not be considered if it was my money.

 

[grimharry]

Up north today for a family thing so probably start researching tomorrow plenty to choose from and still a minefield. I can use a high output mc but I think mm is a better option.

It seems that all the suggestions have there merits.

 

[Al ears]

Up north today for a family thing so probably start researching tomorrow plenty to choose from and still a minefield. I can use a high output mc but I think mm is a better option.

It seems that all the suggestions have there merits.

Enjoy your day away. They do indeed all have their merits so you have to think about what exactly do you want out of a new cartridge (i.e. does it have to have a user replaceable stylus, which can sometimes cost almost as much as a new cartridge ;-) ) and how much money you are prepared to commit.

This will shorten the current list even further.

Luckily enough nobody has yet suggested a cartridge that simply will not work well with your tonearm, so that's a plus.

 

[avole]

Benz micro gold that's 4 now *biggrin*

Can I just point out the Benz Micro Gold is a lowish output MC cartridge that doesn't have a user replaceable stylus and is likely to cost £325. At this price point MC's are not the way to go (in my humble opinion).

Apologies to DougK....just seen your post...

If you look carefully, you'll see I added the info in the Silver, which is high output.

I simply don't agree with your opinion, no matter how humble My MCs are several orders better than the MMs I've tried, one of which cost considerably more. I agree the need to replace the entire cartridge is a minus, but most companies will do retipping, and as you point out that exchange styluses for MMs are often only a couple of pounds cheaper than an entire new cartridge.

As to Nagaoka, who to believe? The maker of the cartridge, or an anonymous person on a small hifi forum? I'd add, though, that Clearaudio give a 2 year guarantee on their cartridges, which can equate to 800 hours + .

 

[Al ears]

Benz micro gold that's 4 now *biggrin*

Can I just point out the Benz Micro Gold is a lowish output MC cartridge that doesn't have a user replaceable stylus and is likely to cost £325. At this price point MC's are not the way to go (in my humble opinion).

Apologies to DougK....just seen your post...

If you look carefully, you'll see I added the info in the Silver, which is high output.

I simply don't agree with your opinion, no matter how humble My MCs are several orders better than the MMs I've tried, one of which cost considerably more. I agree the need to replace the entire cartridge is a minus, but most companies will do retipping, and as you point out that exchange styluses for MMs are often only a couple of pounds cheaper than an entire new cartridge.

As to Nagaoka, who to believe? The maker of the cartridge, or an anonymous person on a small hifi forum? I'd add, though, that Clearaudio give a 2 year guarantee on their cartridges, which can equate to 800 hours + .

And why do you think some manufacturers quote a low-hour lifespan for their stylii?

 

[plastic penguin]

Perhaps I am way off track, but given the OP's kit and table do you guys not think a Benz MC cart is an overkill?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Perhaps I am way off track, but given the OP's kit and table do you guys not think a Benz MC cart is an overkill?

Good point PP so lets throw it out there for others to comment.

Personally, I would have no issues mounting a cart on a turntable whose purchase price is 50% of that turntable, so in my case that would be a £750 cartridge on a £1500 turntable, (Marantz), which is almost where I am with the MP500. I have gone a bit stupid with the Pioneer as that has a 2M Black fitted on a £600 deck. Why? Because I can as the Black is surplus to my current requirements and would otherwise be sitting a drawer gathering dust. Are either of these uses a waste of money? Possibly. Could these carts sound infinitely better on a more expensive turntable? Probably.

My own take on this is that speakers and cartridges offer the most rewarding experience in tailoring a hi-fi to suit your personal tastes. I have changed amps and CD players over the years and been totally underwhelmed by their ability to not sound any different to their cheaper predecessors. The biggest rewards for me have come from speaker and cartridge upgrades to a point where I am now 'almost' completely content with system. *smile*

 

[Deleted member 108165]

For grimharry. Been trawling around the net looking for Ortofon reviews from actual users and came across a thread where they were discussing the specs of the 2M Silver. Many believe that the 2M Silver cartrdge is actually a Red stylus mounted on a slightly modified Bronze/Black cartridge body. Food for thought maybe.

 

[Al ears]

For grimharry. Been trawling around the net looking for Ortofon reviews from actual users and came across a thread where they were discussing the specs of the 2M Silver. Many believe that the 2M Silver cartrdge is actually a Red stylus mounted on a slightly modified Bronze/Black cartridge body. Food for thought maybe.

That's news.

 

[Al ears]

Perhaps I am way off track, but given the OP's kit and table do you guys not think a Benz MC cart is an overkill?

Not really, admittedly the cartridge is more expensive than the ones that I recommended, but the tonearm / cartridge should be suitably compatible. Perhaps you are referring to the costs of the various components. This should play no real part in the construction of an analogue front end. I know a friend who has for some time run a very expensive cartridge on a deck / tonearm combo that costs less than half what the cartridge retails at.

 

[plastic penguin]

I think the OP's Xpression is the newer version of mine, which retailed just over £600 IIRC. Based on Doug's logic, a £250-300 cart should fit the bill nicely. (Sorry Bill *wink*)

Unfortunately, I have a more pragmatic view: Every hi-fi component has its limits. I agree a better cartridge can improve the sound, but at what point to you apply the brakes? Surely every component will have its natural threshold, just adding more expense where the current product will be outclassed and won't yield extra SQ. (if that drivel makes sense).

 

[Al ears]

I think the OP's Xpression is the newer version of mine, which retailed just over £600 IIRC. Based on Doug's logic, a £250-300 cart should fit the bill nicely. (Sorry Bill *wink*)

Unfortunately, I have a more pragmatic view: Every hi-fi component has its limits. I agree a better cartridge can improve the sound, but at what point to you apply the brakes? Surely every component will have its natural threshold, just adding more expense where the current product will be outclassed and won't yield extra SQ. (if that drivel makes sense).

I can sort of see where you are coming from there but I think turntables are funny things and can become an exception to the rule.

Lets say, for example, you have a good wad of money and you purchase a very good turntable and tonearm. The turntable does an amazing job of spinning at 33.3RPM and the tonearm is a quality one that does it's job admirably.

Now you can attach a cartridge to that set-up that costs £100 and it will probably sound quite nice but you could also attach a £4000 Koetsu to it and it will sound much better....... and you could carry on up the cartridge scale without having to upgrade your basic package. However where the ideal price point for that 'basic package' lies I don't know.

Some, like my good friend would say it's whatever a Michell Gyro and SME IV tonearm costs these days but it's obvious that users with restrained budgets are going to find their own price point.

Does that make ant sense??

 

[brownz]

For grimharry. Been trawling around the net looking for Ortofon reviews from actual users and came across a thread where they were discussing the specs of the 2M Silver. Many believe that the 2M Silver cartrdge is actually a Red stylus mounted on a slightly modified Bronze/Black cartridge body. Food for thought maybe.

From Ortofon:
The 2M Silver phono cartridge is an OEM model that takes most of the characteristics of the 2M Red.
2M Silver's special feature is silver plated copper coils, the same coil wire material as in the 2M Bronze and Black models, with a reduced number of windings.
https://www.ortofon.com/stylus-2m-silver-p-396

 

[plastic penguin]

Totally understand that tables are more flexible in terms of cartridge upgrade, and yes you could spend £3-4k on a £100 table... would that £3-4k be justified? That's my total system cost, but to spend that amount on a cartridge?

Please educate me: If that's the case I'll stick with old Xpression and blow £500 - 1000 on a cartridge.

 

[Al ears]

Totally understand that tables are more flexible in terms of cartridge upgrade, and yes you could spend £3-4k on a £100 table... would that £3-4k be justified? That's my total system cost, but to spend that amount on a cartridge?

Please educate me: If that's the case I'll stick with old Xpression and blow £500 - 1000 on a cartridge.

I only mentioned it as this is what some people with a healthy 'disposible income' ( read 'single' ) have done. I believe it is indeed price dependent and that applying the same principle to cheaper decks / tonearms doesn't work.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

From Ortofon:The 2M Silver phono cartridge is an OEM model that takes most of the characteristics of the 2M Red.2M Silver's special feature is silver plated copper coils, the same coil wire material as in the 2M Bronze and Black models, with a reduced number of windings.https://www.ortofon.com/stylus-2m-silver-p-396

Thanks brownz. This says to me that the discussions on the thread I came across weren't far off the mark.

You sometimes come in for some flak on here because of your connection to a certain supplier but I think you're a great fella *smile*

 

[brownz]

Heh, I'm only here to help and proffer advice where I can on products that I deal with on a daily basis.

As mentioned - I'm not a sales person, just a fellow enthusiast. I'm a big beardy grown up - so I can take flak ;-)

 

[plastic penguin]

Don't take it personally. Some get the jitters when an employee of a hi-fi distributor or shop is a regular participant.

Our long standing member Matthewpiano used to work for the Sony Centre retail outlet for a few years, so I suspect he had similar issues.

 

[grimharry]

Seems to me that in my case you one of the better ones to ask advice from*good*

 

[plastic penguin]

(Drums chin with fingers)

 

[grimharry]

Hopefully will be going through this thread again later today and start researching reviews and costs. There is a few to choose from and no overwhelming common favourite.

 

[grimharry]

Looking through the thread and a little research my initial thoughts are;

Ortofon bronze stylus would fit the silver cartridge to give say 75% of the full bronze performance. Stylus £220 full cart £290. Downside replacement stylus price.

Goldring a popular choice as a good all rounder. Stylus £185 full cart £295.

Nagaoka mp 200 seems the best pick by the majority. Stylus £130 full cart £340.

Audio technica vm 740 quite new cartridge not many reviews. Stylus £195 full cart £300

Clear audio concept good reviews but will it be as good as pricier options? Stylus £130 full cart £150.

At first glance taking into consideration intitial cost and replacement stylus cost, also the the number of recommendations I think it's between the Nagaoka and the Goldring but that could still change.

 

[Al ears]

Looking through the thread and a little research my initial thoughts are;

Ortofon bronze stylus would fit the silver cartridge to give say 75% of the full bronze performance. Stylus £220 full cart £290. Downside replacement stylus price.

Goldring a popular choice as a good all rounder. Stylus £185 full cart £295.

Nagaoka mp 200 seems the best pick by the majority. Stylus £130 full cart £340.

Audio technica vm 740 quite new cartridge not many reviews. Stylus £195 full cart £300

Clear audio concept good reviews but will it be as good as pricier options? Stylus £130 full cart £150.

At first glance taking into consideration intitial cost and replacement stylus cost, also the the number of recommendations I think it's between the Nagaoka and the Goldring but that could still change.

I will not say I told you so... ;-)

No, seriously, irrespective of the replacement stylus cost I think you have come to the right conclusion. I would really check details regards that Bronze stylus to Silver body with Ortofon themselves though if you consider going down that route as there are rumours it would gain you nothing in that the cartridge is only a slightly different re-wiring of the Red body, I may be wrong, but that's a bit like adding super expensive tyres to your Ford Focus and expecting it to go faster...

If you're going to spend good money on a cartridge upgrade make sure you get a pedigree one that's designed as a 'unit' and not a mongrel.

 

[grimharry]

With regards to the bronze the Ortofon website says that the silver cartridge uses the same silver plated copper windings as the the bronze and black cartridges, but with fewer windings. Then it gets a little contradictory on how interchangeable they are, probably to stop bronze and silver to be mixed.

I have read on other forums that it has been done with some success, but for arguments sake at say a reduced level of 75% of the full bronze capability. Therefore I would think if I did folluw the bronze route I would be better off changing the whole cartridge.

Replacement stylus price I've taken into consideration as to be honest I'm not the luckiest person and as I have to let other family members use my stereo *nea* a simple slip could leave me couple of hundred quid out of pocket.

 

[Al ears]

With regards to the bronze the Ortofon website says that the silver cartridge uses the same silver plated copper windings as the the bronze and black cartridges, but with fewer windings. Then it gets a little contradictory on how interchangeable they are, probably to stop bronze and silver to be mixed.

I have read on other forums that it has been done with some success, but for arguments sake at say a reduced level of 75% of the full bronze capability. Therefore I would think if I did folluw the bronze route I would be better off changing the whole cartridge.

Replacement stylus price I've taken into consideration as to be honest I'm not the luckiest person and as I have to let other family members use my stereo *nea* a simple slip could leave me couple of hundred quid out of pocket.

I can quite understand your concerns about lucky and longevity of stylus. I have managed to trash my beloved Zyx cartidge in the past (a bit more expensive than the cartridges we are talking about here) and that did make me consider, for a moment, the use of Moving Coil cartridges... ;-)