New cartidge

[grimharry]

Hi all

ive got a project I xpression carbon tt with an ortofon silver cartridge, I feel that I could get more out of the tt by upgrading the cartridge and I would like some suggestions on which cartridges to try.

 

[Al ears]

Hi all

ive got a project I xpression carbon tt with an ortofon silver cartridge, I feel that I could get more out of the tt by upgrading the cartridge and I would like some suggestions on which cartridges to try.

You might be interested in the Clearaudio that plastic penguin uses on his Xpression.

Did you have a budget in mind? Presumably you would stick with a moving magnet type?

 

[grimharry]

Thanks for replying and yes I'm really looking at mm cart as I'm using the creek sequel 3 card which is mm or high output mc. As for budget it's more of a case that I'll wait tilll the right deal comes up as I'm in no immediate rush. With regards to Plastic Penguins cart I would be interested which one it is and how he finds it

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for replying and yes I'm really looking at mm cart as I'm using the creek sequel 3 card which is mm or high output mc. As for budget it's more of a case that I'll wait tilll the right deal comes up as I'm in no immediate rush. With regards to Plastic Penguins cart I would be interested which one it is and how he finds it

Hopefully he will be along later to comment.

I am not sure that 'right deals' come along that often when it comes to cartridges, you normally have to define a budget and then find the best cartridge for that budget.

Presumably you will be going for a more expensive one than your current Ortofon Silver?

 

[grimharry]

I am looking for a more expensive cartridge and it's more cart quality than price saying that I have to be realistic about the guality of the tt. So I don't think spending £500 would be sensible, but then again that's why I need help.

 

[Al ears]

I am looking for a more expensive cartridge and it's more cart quality than price saying that I have to be realistic about the guality of the tt. So I don't think spending £500 would be sensible, but then again that's why I need help.

Quite agree you don't need to spend that much to better the one you currently have. I believe PP uses a Clearaudio Concept MM but I could be wrong... these are similar in price to your Silver which retails for around £169 so not exactly cheap itself.

I guess your next step up, and by a considerable margin, would be to cartridges around the £270 mark.

 

[grimharry]

I'm not averse to spending £270 or more if it's worthwhile.

 

[Al ears]

I'm not averse to spending £270 or more if it's worthwhile.

OK. If you are looking to upgrade what you already have then it is around this price point that you get the best value for money. After this improvement is on a shallower incline and cartridges to be looking at here are the Nagaoka MP150, Audio Technica VM540ML and Goldring 1042. Out of those I would say the Goldring is the best value sonically.

 

[grimharry]

Ok, thanks for your help and I'll keep in mind your recommendations. *good*

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Personally I've found that you have to spend significantly more in order to appreciate any gain, so maybe a 2M Bronze would fit the bill if you like the Orto sound. Others to consider would be Audio Technica and Nagaoka, though these are now not the bargains they used to be. I will all depend on what presentation you prefer and the size of your wallet. So many to choose from in this price range.

 

[grimharry]

Reading Nopianos thread about the ortofon tour and the red 2m I'm inclined to agee with the cupped hands. I've considered the bronze cart and also just changing the the stylus as I've read a on another site it has been done with some success, possibly because the silver cart uses silver plated copper windings as per the bronze and black carts only with less windings.

As you say the problem is there is such a large range to choose from and with my lack of knowledge. I feel like a child in a sweet shop with enough money for a quarter and a thousand jars to choose from.

 

[grimharry]

Sorry meant to say about the sq I would prefer a more neutral detailed sound. *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[Al ears]

Reading Nopianos thread about the ortofon tour and the red 2m I'm inclined to agee with the cupped hands. I've considered the bronze cart and also just changing the the stylus as I've read a on another site it has been done with some success, possibly because the silver cart uses silver plated copper windings as per the bronze and black carts only with less windings.

As you say the problem is there is such a large range to choose from and with my lack of knowledge. I feel like a child in a sweet shop with enough money for a quarter and a thousand jars to choose from.

Something to bear in mind regards changing stylus is that the Silver is basically an internally uprated Red so, as far as I know, the only other stylus you can fit is the Blue. You cannot upgrade any further from what I understand, perhaps someone will correct me here if I am wrong.

Your problem regards choice is pretty much universal as it is extremely difficult to get an audition of different cartridges at a dealers. My advice is to read as many reviews as you can and heed the advice of people on this forum and elsewhere. This at least helps you make an educated guess as to what is and what isn't likely to be a suitable upgrade.

If you crave the Ortofon sound then the 2M Bronze is a good step up although it is a little dearer than the cartridges I have suggested.

 

[grimharry]

I will spend some time reading reviews and other forums, chew thingsover for a while and then make a decision. Other than that it's eeny meeny *biggrin*

 

[Deleted member 108165]

If I was still using Ortofon then the Bronze would be my favourite; I'm not an admirer of the Black... picks up too much surface noise for my liking. Al is the man for carts as he's had far more expeience than I, I've only owned Ortofon, Nagaoka and AT. When you get in this price range the carts are all detailed but with a slightly different flavour of presentation. Personally I've found the AT's to be wonderfully detailed though a little too bright for my ear, Ortofon are excellent too but a little too forward for me, so I have settled for the slightly mellower presentation of Nagaoka.

You can mount a Bronze on your Silver cart and yield approx. 75% of it's true potential so this cheaper and easier option is open to you. The wonderful thing about carts is the ability to tweak the reproduction to suit your individual taste, however, getting an audition of respective carts is a non-starter which can make mistakes very expensive indeed! If you like the the Ortofon sound signature then give the Bronze a whirl, if you're looking for a change in presentation then be prepared for a journey that will easily empty your bank acount *biggrin* Been there, done that!

So keep asking questions and I'm sure the good people on here will assist with the best possible candidate for you.

 

[grimharry]

I've just been playing dark side of the moon and now I'm playing Joshua tree to reassess things. I think that the silver needs to open up more and give more detail and clarity. Also I feel that it can be a little bright. So I suppose I'm looking for more clarity/detail and a slightly mellower sound. If that makes any sense.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Makes perfect sense. Always found Ortofon a little shouty in presentation, (Bronze is the least shouty). When I was looking to move away from Ortofon I asked similar questions here and Nagaoka was the recommendation. My guess is either Goldring or Nagaoka would fit your requirements; I've never heard a Goldring so I'm just basing this on reviews only, maybe others will be able to assist you more in this area. Nagaoka have a loyal following on here, I'm one of them, but this doesn't stop me wanting to try a Goldring at some stage.

Two factors to consider are: will you be able to fit and set-up the new cart yourself or will you pass this over to a retailer? If Nagaoka takes your fancy then the Japanese market can offer savings over the EU/UK marketplace. The MP200 seems to be the place to start with Nagaoka, but prices have gone through the roof over the last two years.

 

[grimharry]

Probably fit it my self or with help from my wife with the extra fiddly bits if needed, I'm used to changing pcbs etc but am missing right thumb tip, well all the nail area really so extra fiddly is fiddly even though I'm left handed. I have read some reviews that claim the goldring to be rounded off and can sound muddled so I might lean towards nagaoka.

 

[Al ears]

Probably fit it my self or with help from my wife with the extra fiddly bits if needed, I'm used to changing pcbs etc but am missing right thumb tip, well all the nail area really so extra fiddly is fiddly even though I'm left handed. I have read some reviews that claim the goldring to be rounded off and can sound muddled so I might lean towards nagaoka.

Not sure where you read that about the Goldring, certainly not my findings at all and certainly not the 1042 which, from you discussions, would seem to be the ideal choice for you. The MP200 from a UK dealer is likely to cost around £340.

Doug is right about the Nagaokas though the MP200 would have been my go-to cartridge until price hike sent them way up. Now you can only get the lesser MP150 for what the MP200 used to cost. You can save a bit by buying direct from Japan if you don't mind a bit of a wait.

 

[grimharry]

I read about the goldring 1042 on other forums. I basically typed in goldring 1042 reviews into the search engine and went from there. And I don't wish to sound sycophantic but have read you posts for a while now and others and do trust your opinions so am to a certain extent in your hands ( promise no recriminations) so which would be best goldring or nagaoka 150 or 200 or any others to think about.

 

[grimharry]

I read about the goldring 1042 on other forums. I basically typed in goldring 1042 reviews into the search engine and went from there. And I don't wish to sound sycophantic but have read you posts for a while now and others and do trust your opinions so am to a certain extent in your hands ( promise no recriminations) so which would be best goldring or nagaoka 150 or 200 or any others to think about.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Push the boat out and get an MP200 *biggrin*

Looks like you've 'currently' narrowed it down to: Goldring 1042 @ £280; Nagaoka MP200 @ £340; or maybe Ortofon 2M Bronze @ £265.

Not sure if this of assistance to you but if you live anywhere near Essex I'd have no problem helping you fit the cart.

 

[nopiano]

Glad you found my write up useful, and pleased to see others recognise some of the descriptions.

When I read your post, my first thought was the Blue stylus. What was fascinating during the two hours or so of listening was each cartridge sounded pretty decent in its own right, until we heard the next one or two up in performance. Then what was missing previously really was highlighted. (Mind you they should sound decent in a system that probably retails for approaching £20k!)

A slightly different take would be the Denon DL110, a high output MC. Should be available for under £200 if you shop around. Lastly, completely different again, and nearer £100 is the Shure M97xe.

 

[grimharry]

So now I'm looking at nagaoka mp200, goldring 1042, demon dl110, and sure 97. The choice doesn't seem to be getting any easier. So if it was up to each of you which would you pick if it was your tt? Remember no come back just your own pick *diablo*

 

[Al ears]

So now I'm looking at nagaoka mp200, goldring 1042, demon dl110, and sure 97. The choice doesn't seem to be getting any easier. So if it was up to each of you which would you pick if it was your tt? Remember no come back just your own pick *diablo*

The Shure mentioned is probably best value for money if you only want to spend £100 but you might consider this a downgrade knowing the price of the one you already have.

The Goldring is the best all rounder for £275 and the MP200 is best of the bunch but no longer the bargain it use to be.

If it was me, and I had the extra funds, it would be the Nagaoka

If you can get one cheaper from Japan then it certainly becomes the best all-rounder for the money that it used to be.

If you end up buying from the UK don't, until you have spoken to Ian Harrison (cheapest supplier here).

I will forward his contact details if you require them.

P.S.: He's got a nice Benz Micro Glider SL reserved for me at a price that is about 3/4 of best price I could find elsewhere. ;-)