New AV amp advice. £2k+ (ish)

[paulmwilliams]

I am looking to replace/upgrade my Amp. I currently run a Yamaha RX 2067 amp which is about 4 or 5 years old now. I have an LG OLED to (2016) model albeit will be moving this to another room later in the year and either buying a Panasonic EZ1002 or LG 2017 OLED or Sony A1. the Amp will need to match my Monitor Audio Apex, and BK XXL 400 sub. I have a Panasonic 900 4 k blu ray player.

i find the current set up does not have enough detail through the centre channel at low volume - a number of people have mentioned problems hearing dialogue at low volume. I have re-run the calibration settings several times and adjusted things manually but feel it may just be a feature of my Amp being 'warm'.

Anyway, given I am all set for 4K it is time to retire my old amp and replace. I will probably seek to add rear surrounds (in wall given the shape/room available behind the sofa and at least 2 height Atmos in ceiling speakers).

Budget is c. £2 - £3k. I have noticed a number of manufacturers have begun discounting models so I am wondering if I should wait another month or two in case 2017 models are released - it seems nothing at this level has come out since last summer? I'd appreciate views on:

Yamaha 3060 - my worry here is will this have the same issues as my current Amp?

Pioneer SCLX901

Onkyo TX RZ3100

Denon X6300H

Arcam AVR 390 or 550

Anthem MRX 1120 (I'd have to bust the budget!)

I am not worried about music as I have an Arcam hifi set up separately. All connections are hard wired (cat 6 etc) into a server hub room where all the devices are located (IR) remote hard wired from lounge.

So 2 questions -

1) do I wait for 2017 models? If so does anyone have a rough timetable for when manufactures normally cycle model replacements? (Clearly newer models might future proof me more - e.g. Dolby vision, HDMI 2.1, etc)?

2) if I jump - any views on the contenders above? Or any other models/options I should test drive.

i will try to get demos locally (I live in Bristol) but it is often hard to get side by side demos and I can't find a retailer that stocks all of the models above - hence the need to narrow down a bit.

i'd really appreciate any input.

thanks

Paul

 

[CnoEvil]

I would look at Arcam and Anthem, as I believe they have the best EQ...with Arcam's Dirac considered the best.

If you like the Arcam sound, it is a must listen imo.

 

[Q5]

I would look at Arcam and Anthem, as I believe they have the best EQ...with Arcam's Dirac considered the best.

If you like the Arcam sound, it is a must listen imo.

I would agree with CNO with the Arcam, although I do currently have a Pioneer LX85 with the Apex speakers and it does make a good combination. However not heard the latest Pioneer.

 

[bigboss]

Dialogue clarity has nothing to do with whether the amp is "warm" or "bright". In your 2067, make sure "adaptive DRC" is on and if that doesn't help, you can manually increase the volume of the centre speaker. Yamaha's Aventage range are a different beast altogether, and you certainly shouldn't ignore them. They're one of the best receivers in the market.

I've got Monitor Audio speakers (Trimless 200) which share the drivers with Apex. They pair beautifully with Marantz SR7009. My previous setup was Monitor Audio Radius HD with Yamaha RX-V1900 which again was an excellent combination (the Marantz is better).

In total, will you be having 9 speakers or 11? Choice of amp depends on that. If 11, are you willing to have 2 box solutions instead of a single amp driving all 11 channels? I'm asking this because there are very few receivers with 11 channel amplification in the market, and the power ratings of the amplifier are low. Also, users have been reporting lot of issues with Denon 6300H.

You said you're not worried about music. Based on that, I don't think Arcam is your best choice. Although they're good for movies too, others are better on the movies front (can't talk for Onkyo). The problem with Onkyo is its in-house EQ which isn't good. Pioneer is now made by Onkyo, so not sure how they are now. Denon 7200 is an amazing AVR which should be in your shortlist. Money no object, Anthem is the best AVR around for movies, but their ridiculous pricing policy means we pay twice that of our US counterparts. Of course, look at the Marantz too.

 

[hunnyy]

I changed from an Anthem AV amp to a Yamaha 3050, and - whilst it's always personal preference of course - I much prefer the sound of the Yamaha. More detailed and potent for movies, more musical for soundtracks, CDs, etc.,, a better spread of 5.1 sound - to my ears.

I also have a separate "lesser" AV system in another room, incorporating a Marantz AV amp. I very much enjoy the sound of the Marantz also; nicely musical.

 

[davidf]

I find Anthem and Yamaha quite opposite to each other with regards to tonal balance, and as such, will suit certain speaker packages. And just like stereo amplifiers reproducing a soundstage from two speakers, I find many AV receiver manufacturers produce a different sounding multi-channel soundfield. Then there's EQ preferences. All subjective

 

[Leeps]

It's rightly pointed out above that Arcam and Anthem tend to have the best room equalisation software, although I personally think that's less of a factor with MA Apex than full-size speaker arrays. Their size means there are a lot less speaker/room interaction issues in the first place. If Apexes sound bad in a room, you've really no hope at all.

Having owned MA Apex and Radius, I found the Apex a little softer and have a little less zing (can't think of a better descriptive word!) than the Radius, and very subjectively do better with a slightly forward exciting amp that'll get them going. Once they're given a good kick up the derrière they do know how to perform. So I'd really recommend the Pioneer house sound for Apex, providing Onkyo hasn't toned the recent models down too much, as I've not heard them. But music aside, I think Pioneer AVR's are awesome. From what I understand, the tonal balance of the latest Yamahas is a little more forward anyway, and I rate their power supplies highly. So for me Pioneer and Yamaha would be front runners, although the current prices of the Marantz SR7011 is hard to ignore.

 

[paulmwilliams]

Thanks for the advice bigboss, I will give the adjustments a go.

i'll p it the Yamaha on the shortlist for a demo then (I had broadly struck it off due to the old amp) but given several people are saying they would recommend it then I will listen.

i'll also add Marantz - I don't know too much about them in all honesty.

Arcam seems to be getting mixed views - good set up calibration but more focused on music? Since the amp is just for movies I wonder now if there are better options?

Has anyone actually heard the Anthem? Keen to understand if it is worth doubling the budget!?

Until last year I had always planned to buy a Pioneer 89 (or equivalent) as I liked the detailed and punchy sound but the current model seems to be getting mixed reviews? I haven't heard the Onkyo but I assume it will be very similar to the Pioneer?

does anyone have any idea when the 2017/2018 models might be on release as I see most of these amps are now getting price reductions which makes me wonder if new models are on the horizon? A chap on the Pioneer stand at the Bristol show told me for some reason Pioneer were skipping an updated model this year?

thanks again for everyone's input, I really do appreciate it.

Paul

 

[paulmwilliams]

Sorry forgot to say, I am only planning on 2 height channels so 9.1.

 

[bigboss]

1) Marantz and Denon belong to the same parent company.

2) I've heard the Anthem and it's very good, but 11.2 channel amp is an overkill (you'll be paying for 2 extra channels you won't use) and I don't think it's worth the premium commanded.

3) Onkyo and Pioneer are very different to each other. They use different calibration.

4) Demo the shortlist and see what you think. If I were in your place, my shortlist would be Denon AVR-X7200, Marantz SR7011, Pioneer SC-LX701 and Yamaha RX-A3060. Considering the price of these 4, I know what I would be tempted towards.

 

[CnoEvil]

Arcam seems to be getting mixed views - good set up calibration but more focused on music? Since the amp is just for movies I wonder now if there are better options?

It depends on how you like the presentation.

Have a listen to an Arcam and see what you think. Personally, if you like "Refined with Slam", then it's certainly worth considering.

IMO. All those measures that Arcam have taken to make it sound good for 2 channel, have a benefit when it comes to AV....eg. In the sound track and the portrayal of human voice.

I have heard the Pionoeer Susano from a few years back and the top Anthem from then as well....and for me Arcam is just more natural....but it is very subjective. For my taste, I find many AV amps wearing after an hour at high volume...and this doesn't happen with my AVR600.

 

[Native_bon]

Arcam seems to be getting mixed views - good set up calibration but more focused on music? Since the amp is just for movies I wonder now if there are better options?

It depends on how you like the presentation.

Have a listen to an Arcam and see what you think. Personally, if you like "Refined with Slam", then it's certainly worth considering.

IMO. All those measures that Arcam have taken to make it sound good for 2 channel, have a benefit when it comes to AV....eg. In the sound track and the portrayal of human voice.

I have heard the Pionoeer Susano from a few years back and the top Anthem from then as well....and for me Arcam is just more natural....but it is very subjective. For my taste, I find many AV amps wearing after an hour at high volume...and this doesn't happen with my AVR600.

 

Have to agree with you there Cno. When I demo'd other Av amps they just where not as composed at higher volume like Acram Av amps. Even at very high volume levels distortion is not introduced to the sound.

Again it's about listening, one man's meat.... Smile.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

If it were me, I would go for a modest but good 9.2 recevier like the Marantz 6011 or 7011 then add an Emotiva power amp.

The Emotiva XPA Gen3 is modular in design and can be expanded from an initial 2 to up to 7 channels. You use the receiver to power the last two channels (overheads or surround rears) or route the front left and front right through your hifi (or add another power amp, of course...).

The Emotiva XPA Gen3 provides a geniune 300 wpc RMS into both of two channels, dropping to 200 genuine watts RMS per channel into 7 channels, all at once.

Using a separate power amp (or amps) has the advantage that should (when?) the technology changes again, you only need to replace the receiver / decoder part of the setup.

 

[paulmwilliams]

Thank you all for the advice. I have Richer Sounds visiting this week to survey in order to look at wiring and speaker choice for Atmost overheads so next step is to finalise the shortlist and do some listening.

feels like Marantz and Denon are now on the list together with Yamaha, Pioneer and maybe Arcam. Strange hardly any Amps at this level have been put through a Group test by WHF magazine? Yamaha 3060 clearly won the big award last year but that feels like a while ago and I am surprised no-one seems to have brought out any 2017 models.

Thank you all for your input.

By the way, if anyone has any recommendations for a pair of in ceiling Atmos speakers (preferably ones with minimum sound leakage) - I am all ears. Also in wall rear surrounds (speaker budget is £1k-2k for all 4, given I have Monitor Audio Apex, I wonder if MA ought to be the starting point?

 

[bigboss]

I would highly recommend the Monitor Audio Trimless 200 or Controlled Performance series of speakers. I've got Trimless 200 wall and ceiling speakers, and they share drivers with the Apex. They're absolutely amazing! Significant discounts can be had if you shop around, or ask your dealer.

The range topping AV receivers generally come into the market in August / September.

 

[paulmwilliams]

Thanks big boss..... I'll take a look at those. What size did you opt for?

 

[bigboss]

I've got a 7.1.4 setup. For fronts and centre, I went for 8-inch in-wall speakers, for surrounds I went for 6.5-inch in-wall speakers and for Atmos, I went for 6.5-inch in-ceiling speakers.