Need advice pls - Big speakers for 1000sq ft room!

[lindsayt]

Quote = lindsayt, Compared to the real thing: actual bass guitars, bass synths and bass drums the ADM 9's do not have a rich and deep sound.

This is a false statement. One of the strengths of AVI loudspeakers, noted very widely by many users, is their realism and fidelity.

Quote = lindsayt, On bass transients, the ADM 9's have far more distortion than the sort of speaker I recommended earlier in this thread.

This is again simply untrue. Most of the speakers you favour are 'big old legacy' designs from the past. Technology advances in driver designs have made big advances. Particularly in the reduction of distortion. AVI are noted for pursuing the advantages of leading edge designs in driver technology.

By now, literally thousands of users have made their choice by purchasing, and attesting to the excellence and realism of AVI speakers. To suggest that this is the opinion of a few 'paid shills', is ridiculous.

JC

JC with regard to low frequencies from bass guitars etc, the AVI website itself says that AVI ADM 9's are -6 db at 60 hz.

Now please look at this frequency spectrum chart: http://www.offbeat.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/eq-chart.pdf

You will note that bass guitars, pianos, tubas, synthesizers can all have significant frequency content well below 60hz. The fundamentals of male vocals can extend down to 60hz. The thump of kick drums is 60 to 80hz.

AVI ADM 9's start rolling off at 100 hz and are 6 dbs down at 60hz. In a large room at longer listening distances this roll-off effect will be even more pronounced due to bass frequencies being less directional and dispersing more with distance than upper frequencies.

In order to have a system with a genuinely rich and deep sound you need to have the lower frequencies in proportion to the higher frequencies at your listening position. If you start filtering out the lower frequencies you get a progressively thin and lean sound.

Oldric has already answered the point on bass transient distortion very well. Something I would add is compare 6.5" drivers in a small ported cabinet to the more purist design of two 12" drivers in a large sealed cabinet. The difference in bass transient distortion is easy to hear and would be apparent with the right labortory testing equipment.

If you JCBrum, or anyone else, enjoys the thin and lean sound of ADM 9's which becomes very thin and lean in a large room, and you enjoy the bass transient distortion of AVI ADM 9's then that is your prerogative. But for you to then go into complete denial that these exist, well that to me is just complete marketing poppycock. The sort of marketing poppycock that is annoying and is tantamount to miss-selling the product.

 

[chebby]

Don't think it's active speakers that people have a problem with - just AVI active speakers.

I don't think that's true either.

I don't think anyone has a problem with AVI active speakers in particular.

The problem is with the style and substance of AVI's PR and marketing.

Their products have always been received very favourably by both customers and press.

 

[GSB]

Somewhat of a sideway, I know (though less so than the latest 3 pages), but what about the opposite? When is a room too small for speakers with lots of bass? Has that to do with the distance of the speakers to the listening seat, or to the front wall? Or is it just the cubic metres of air that are 'pressurized' by the speakers' bass output?

I'd be very interested in reading thoughts in regard's to this

 

[jcbrum]

If you JCBrum, or anyone else, enjoys the thin and lean sound of ADM 9's which becomes very thin and lean in a large room, and you enjoy the bass transient distortion of AVI ADM 9's then that is your prerogative. But for you to then go into complete denial that these exist, well that to me is just complete marketing poppycock. The sort of marketing poppycock that is annoying and is tantamount to miss-selling the product.

Well lindsayt, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet, and some sort of axe to grind about this.

Your views are your invention, not supported by the reviews of AVI ADM9 speakers from Andrew Everard of Gramophone magazine, and indeed What Hi-Fi magazine who gave them a five star rating.

Frankly, your views are so far removed from reality, as confirmed by the thousands of satisfied users of AVI loudspeakers, many of whom report their findings on various media and websites, as to be the ramblings of deliberate prejudice, and a misguided psychology.

It is ridiculous to suggest that the excellence of AVI loudspeakers is a myth dependent merely on fictitious 'shills'.

Quite frankly, reading your drivel, is a waste of time.

All anyone has to do is simply listen to AVI speakers, and/or speak directly to people who own and use them.

Failing that, buy some and try them. They hold their value very well and re-sell easily. That alone suggests your above assessment is incorrect.

JC

 

[rick3763]

anything from adam audio in their tensor range should do the trick, or get a second hand pair of linn isobariks. :bounce:

:dance: cost alot of dough though do the tensors

 

[Craig M.]

If you are open to actives there are a few on the forums that have Event Opals.

They're probably not the most sympathetic looks wise (milled from ally), but they have the power.

I've not heard these myself yet, but they consistently get excellent reviews, think they're in the region of 2k in the UK

The room is nearly 32 ft x 32 ft, so maybe one of the owners on here could comment on how it might cope...........a possible for the shortlist though.

I've had mine in a much bigger room for a birthday party, I didn't get the tape measure out but would guess the room was around 30 x 50 feet. Obviously it wasn't the environment for 'critical listening' (really hate that phrase), but they had more than enough power for the space. Also, can't see why the ADMs plus sub couldn't cope either - 30 x 30 foot is big but not that big (my room is 28 feet long and 20 feet wide at its widest), and they go very loud. It's an avenue worth considering by the op.

 

[DocG]

I've had mine in a much bigger room for a birthday party, I didn't get the tape measure out but would guess the room was around 30 x 50 feet. Obviously it wasn't the environment for 'critical listening' (really hate that phrase), but they had more than enough power for the space. Also, can't see why the ADMs plus sub couldn't cope either - 30 x 30 foot is big but not that big (my room is 28 feet long and 20 feet wide at its widest), and they go very loud. It's an avenue worth considering by the op.

Yeah, except the OP would like his speakers veneered with real wood...

 

[DocG]

Somewhat of a sideway, I know (though less so than the latest 3 pages), but what about the opposite? When is a room too small for speakers with lots of bass? Has that to do with the distance of the speakers to the listening seat, or to the front wall? Or is it just the cubic metres of air that are 'pressurized' by the speakers' bass output?

I'd be very interested in reading thoughts in regard's to this

Hi GSB,

Let's wait until the war is over, and then ask again...

 

[GSB]

:cheers:

 

[Craig M.]

I've had mine in a much bigger room for a birthday party, I didn't get the tape measure out but would guess the room was around 30 x 50 feet. Obviously it wasn't the environment for 'critical listening' (really hate that phrase), but they had more than enough power for the space. Also, can't see why the ADMs plus sub couldn't cope either - 30 x 30 foot is big but not that big (my room is 28 feet long and 20 feet wide at its widest), and they go very loud. It's an avenue worth considering by the op.

Yeah, except the OP would like his speakers veneered with real wood...

You mean he isn't keen on black painted metal? Some people... :roll:

 

[chebby]

I've had mine in a much bigger room for a birthday party...

I know some people love their speakers, but giving them birthday parties ?

 

[skippy]

:rofl: Tee Hee

 

[relocated]

I've had mine in a much bigger room for a birthday party...

I know some people love their speakers, but giving them birthday parties ?

:rofl: Very good Chebby.

Now if only you could get over seeing owners of AVI ADMs recounting and recommending their speakers as 'marketing and advertising' you would sound pleasantly normal. Although as AVI bashing is so prevalent on here perhaps you would then become abnormal. :?

 

[relocated]

Somewhat of a sideway, I know (though less so than the latest 3 pages), but what about the opposite? When is a room too small for speakers with lots of bass? Has that to do with the distance of the speakers to the listening seat, or to the front wall? Or is it just the cubic metres of air that are 'pressurized' by the speakers' bass output?

I'd be very interested in reading thoughts in regard's to this

Hi GSB,

Let's wait until the war is over, and then ask again...

Perhaps I could throw a second curve-ball into this thread and suggest you start a new thread. :O

 

[chebby]

Now if only you could get over seeing owners of AVI ADMs recounting and recommending their speakers as 'marketing and advertising'

I was referring to the marketing and PR style chosen by AVI themselves and the way in which it's conducted by them.

The problem is with the style and substance of AVI's PR and marketing.

Name other UK hi-fi companies whose MD/CEO/owners conduct their own marketing and PR in person on hi-fi forums and who engage potential customers in discussions, arguments, attacks, insults against beliefs, insults against lifestyles, insults against chosen computer systems (unless Apple), insults against other hi-fi companies, insults against their taste... etc. and so on.

As I said before - quite a few times - it's not the technology or the products, it's the conduct of the MD.

What his followers do or say wouldn't be pertinent if he conducted himself like a responsible industry spokesman. (Can't blame a company for it's followers unless they are actively encouraged by the example of it's most senior person.)

 

[relocated]

It's your total inability to accept, let alone suggest, any other solution that is the problem.

Do you accept that there are better speakers than AVI?

I am really sorry, Lemon, that you are so challenged in the recall department.

You should be fully aware, because I have said it often enough generally and specifically to you, that. I do not recommend anything to anyone, if I do not own it or have not had a decent amount of time experiencing it.

Unlike many others I will not suggest kit that I have not owned or have had little experience of [yes that's repitition, hopefully that is helping you in case you have got confused again already]. It is not fair to OPs and others. There is enough miss-informed speculation and lies out there already and I have no wish to add to it. I merely pass on my experience of certain kit in the context of 40-odd years of listening to, selling and owning hifi.

I have no wish to speculate on, or search for, other speakers or other hifi kit. I have found what I have spent 40 years searching for. Very many have promised much and delivered less, but AVI has delivered and then some [well a great deal actually].

That, to my mind, is worth other people knowing about and OPs and others have the perfect right to ignore the advice I give. But at least I have passed on genuine knowledge and experience, not speculation or lies.

I don't decry other suggestions, I just make my own. Give it a try sometime, it might actually make you relevant once in a while.

 

[richardw42]

Chebby

i can sympathise with people who are not AVI owners or even potential ones. As it gets a bit overwhelming especially if an annoyance already exists.

Personally I really like the way Ashley communicates directly with the ownes on forum, email, by phone. Both pairs of my speakers were personally delivered and set up by Ashley.

Or we engage with large companies with many tiers of sales/management.

Is viral marketing of this kind (if it happens) any worse then a nationally regarded magazine throwing 5 star reviews at big advertisers.

And I have bought on WHF recommendations and been very happy.

 

[relocated]

Chebby, why on earth do you care what Ashley says or does not say?

He recognises that he rubs people up the wrong way. He is straight talking and doesn't stand on ceremony, but so what? He isn't doing it on here and as no-one, that I am aware of, who posts here in support of AVI products is in his pay or thrall; it is of no consequence whatsoever.

Everyone, in the UK at least, has the right to a reasonable level of free speech, to express themselves. If you don't agree with him, ignore it, what does it matter to you? Are you diminished by what he thinks? Does it make you lose sleep at night? Will it prevent you from eating or breathing or reaching a decent age?

The only thing anyone need be interested in, about AVI and the owner, is whether or not they make a decent product and in AVIs case at a fabulous price. Well in my experience they make wonderful products at seriously good prices, just like thousands of other people have found. That is how AVI should be judged, unless of course it is all done to destabilise the world and hurt lovely cuddly fluffy creatures. Then we should all rise up as one and cry, "no more Ashley you naughty person".

Yes, I'm being COMPLETELY over the top and ridiculous, just where your thoughts and comments have taken us. Ashley rubs you up the wrong way, get over it.

 

[jcbrum]

What his followers do or say wouldn't be pertinent if he conducted himself like a responsible industry spokesman. (Can't blame a company for it's followers unless they are actively encouraged by the example of it's most senior person.)

Hmmm, can't agree with any of that.

AVI followers are just as pertinent as any other followers. Or are you going to tell us that Naim/Linn/Cyrus followers are more pertinent.

It is understandable for any company to be encouraging to its followers.

Ashley, is entitled to run his company any way he sees fit.

Ashley isn't the most senior person in the company (except perhaps by date of birth). Martin Grindrod founded the company, - Ashley joined somewhat later. They are both senior directors of the company.

In true AVI ethos, it's important to be balanced and fair.

JC

 

[DocG]

Somewhat of a sideway, I know (though less so than the latest 3 pages), but what about the opposite? When is a room too small for speakers with lots of bass? Has that to do with the distance of the speakers to the listening seat, or to the front wall? Or is it just the cubic metres of air that are 'pressurized' by the speakers' bass output?

I'd be very interested in reading thoughts in regard's to this

Hi GSB,

Let's wait until the war is over, and then ask again...

Perhaps I could throw a second curve-ball into this thread and suggest you start a new thread. :O

You know what: I rephrase my question and drag it on topic! :type:

Does the distance from the speakers to the listening position play a role in determining what speakers you need in a big room, or is it just a question of air volume you need to fill with the speakers' bass output?

BTW, you are a laudable baseball player, Relocated! :cheers:

 

[chebby]

Or are you going to tell us that Naim/Linn/Cyrus followers are more pertinent.

I actually think the marketing engaged in by the founders of both Linn and Naim did a tremendous amount of damage to the image of the British hi-fi industry in the 1980s and beyond.

It was agressive and belligerent and called into question the very sanity of anyone (journalists, dealers, other manufacturers) who tried to argue against their bullying and hectoring.

It resulted in a hi-fi press that was disproportionately skewed towards Linn/Naim whether in support (mostly), or just because it seemed - because of all the fuss generated over the years - that everything in British hi-fi had become a debate with the philosophies of the two companies involved.

'Camps' and entrenchments followed. Your favourite magazine was either pro-Linn/Naim or against it. Your favourite dealer was either a Linn/Naim dealer (almost to the exclusion of other price equivalent gear) or 'out in the cold'.

It was a con of course, but a bloody good one that persisted for a long time. Two small (but very noisy) companies dominated the scene and had influence way beyond their size in the market.

That was all pre-internet (pre WWW anyway) but the same thing seems to be working here (and on other forums). A small manufacturer of niche hi-fi products getting a disproportionate amount of attention, over many years, and forcing almost every discussion of hi-fi to become a debate about AVI active speakers and the opinions of it's producers.

The MD of AVI has learnt well from the founders of Naim and Linn no matter what he says about them.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

What his followers do or say wouldn't be pertinent if he conducted himself like a responsible industry spokesman. (Can't blame a company for it's followers unless they are actively encouraged by the example of it's most senior person.)

Hmmm, can't agree with any of that.

AVI followers are just as pertinent as any other followers. Or are you going to tell us that Naim/Linn/Cyrus followers are more pertinent.

It is understandable for any company to be encouraging to its followers.

Ashley, is entitled to run his company any way he sees fit.

Ashley isn't the most senior person in the company (except perhaps by date of birth). Martin Grindrod founded the company, - Ashley joined somewhat later. They are both senior directors of the company.

In true AVI ethos, it's important to be balanced and fair.

JC

Couldn't agree more about fairness, well said.

Now, who was it who used a couple of user names on a forum and got caught out? Who has been banned on others for repeated shilling, along with his master on at least two or three forums? Who has some kind of often denied interest in AVI? That's precisely the type of things people are objecting too.

The Linn/Naim stuff I don't know so can't comment, but AVI I can. Also, consider: because two companies apparently used dubious tactics, does that justify another doing the same?

 

[John Duncan]

I guess all these accusations are pretty moot, since nobody can ever prove anything. Indeed, even if one of his 'followers' suddenly were to log in from an IP address emanating from somewhere near Stroud in Gloucestershire, that could always be explained away. On the other hand it might, if I were the suspicious type, or if there was some suggestion of prior form in this regard, make me wonder whether those followers are always who they appear to be.

 

[spiny norman]

Your views are your invention, not supported by the reviews of AVI ADM9 speakers from Andrew Everard of Gramophone magazine, and indeed What Hi-Fi magazine who gave them a five star rating.

Eventually people will realise Everard and his cronies are bringing the science of good hifi into disrepute.

 

[BenLaw]

Post deleted: makes no sense after spiny edited.