Naim UnitiServe - review request for WHF team

[Dan Turner]

Hi WHF team - I'm expecting that you'll review the new Naim Uniti as soon as you can, and when you do I'd like to request that at the same time you take the opportunity to cover some of the hot topics that frequently arise on the forums here.

I'm very interested in the UnitiServe, but at £2k it seems very expensive for what it is - essentially a rip-NAS with integrated streaming interface built and spdif output. The HDX is reputed to be a cracking machine, but it's an integrated player so assuming that it can take a perfect rip then the quality of it's DAC and analogue parts is going to define it's overall performance. The UnitiServe is a lot more exposed as it's going to bear direct comparison to any computer based solution feeding an external DAC.

Interesting questions to be answered:

1. Whether the rips taken by the UnitiServe are any more accurate than rips taken by a computer or any other rip-NAS (how can they be, a computer has to be able to rip a disc perfectly, or nothing would ever work?!)

2. Whether the sound quality of a file replayed on the UnitiServe is any better than an identical file replayed from a computer via spdif output (if the rip is perfect in both cases how could they possibly be any different - other than jitter introduced maybe?)

3. Whilst we're at it why don't we have some listening comparisons on uncompressed and lossless files for what's best when storage space is of no concern (always a lively debate between those who can hear a difference and those who believe a difference is impossible so would be useful to have the experts render a verdict)

I think that the UnitiServe is a nice (and convenient) looking product, but at £2k it's going to have to represent a significant improvement in performance to tempt me away from my MacBook playing Apple Lossless files, and on the face of it, I'm unconvinced as to how it can be any better.

Thanks.

 

[chebby]

Dan Turner:Interesting questions to be answered:
1. Whether the rips taken by the UnitiServe are any more accurate than rips taken by a computer or any other rip-NAS (how can they be, a computer has to be able to rip a disc perfectly, or nothing would ever work?!)

2. Whether the sound quality of a file replayed on the UnitiServe is any better than an identical file replayed from a computer via spdif output (if the rip is perfect in both cases how could they possibly be any different - other than jitter introduced maybe?)

3. Whilst we're at it why don't we have some listening comparisons on uncompressed and lossless files for what's best when storage space is of no concern (always a lively debate between those who can hear a difference and those who believe a difference is impossible so would be useful to have the experts render a verdict)

I think that the UnitiServe is a nice (and convenient) looking product, but at £2k it's going to have to represent a significant improvement in performance to tempt me away from my MacBook playing Apple Lossless files, and on the face of it, I'm unconvinced as to how it can be any better.

You appear to have already pre-judged a product that has not been launched yet.

What is more you seem to have made up your mind about all the questions WHF's review team would otherwise miss.

 

[Andrew Everard]

It read more like review commands than requests to me, but since the OP seems to have made decisions already, hardly seems any point in reviewing it now, does there...?

 

[Craig M.]

i think he's hit the nail on the head, when it comes to what a potential buyer would like to know. it's what i'd want to know. and he's only pre-judged the outcome to q.1, which seems like a sensible assumption to make. and given the logical likelihood of q1. being correct, then it would be interesting to know if something else is at play, as q2. hints at.

i think if it offers no more then a pc, in sq terms, then the review should make it clear that you are paying for ease of use/setup/whatever.

not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, it's a product i could maybe be interested in, but for the review to be thorough (for me) i need to know how it compares to a mac/itunes (for example).

 

[Dan Turner]

Well, you're kind of right - I'll readily admit to having a few preconceptions about the product - but i'm asking for them to challenged and proven right or wrong. I think that they are questions that plenty of other people would be wondering about too, judging by a lot of the threads I've seen on the 'computer based music' forum.

Certainly didn't mean it to come across like a list of demands - sorry if it did.

 

[Dan Turner]

Craig M.:
i think he's hit the nail on the head, when it comes to what a potential buyer would like to know. it's what i'd want to know. and he's only pre-judged the outcome to q.1, which seems like a sensible assumption to make. and given the logical likelihood of q1. being correct, then it would be interesting to know if something else is at play, as q2. hints at.

i think if it offers no more then a pc, in sq terms, then the review should make it clear that you are paying for ease of use/setup/whatever.

not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, it's a product i could maybe be interested in, but for the review to be thorough (for me) i need to know how it compares to a mac/itunes (for example).

Thanks Craig - you got my intentions spot on.

 

[Alec]

OK, you're in melon twisting territory now Chebby.

And I pretty much agree with Craig.

 

[chebby]

No just bored at the prospect of the same old regurgitated HDX type arguments that are going to happen when the UnitiServ is launched.

Debates that 99 percent of UnitiServ customers will never read because they won't ever go within a Wiltshire mile of a hifi website or magazine, and will only interest people who (a) can't afford it anyway, or (b) people who have already made their minds up that it is a rip-off.

All I know is that (rip-off or not) my local Naim dealer was joking about installing a conveyor belt when the HDX was launched because he was taking so many orders for them. Mostly from people who had not even heard them! (I dropped in once and saw him and his staff checking four of them before shipping to customers the same day.) Same happened with the XS, the naimuniti and now their £2K DAC.

I have a hunch none got returned for the reasons that came up in the HDX debates at the time.

 

[Dan Turner]

chebby:
No just bored at the prospect of the same old regurgitated HDX type arguments that are going to happen when the UnitiServ is launched.

Debates that 99 percent of UnitiServ customers will never read because they won't ever go within a Wiltshire mile of a hifi website or magazine, and will only interest people who (a) can't afford it anyway, or (b) people who have already made their minds up that it is a rip-off.

But this is what interests me and the fact that the debate has happened 1000 times on this and other forums is the very reason why I think it would be great for the experts to take a look at this whole issue - and i thought combining it with the review of the UnitiServe would be perfect because as a product, purely in sound quality terms, it would be a like-for-like comparison to any other computer-based music server-type system with a digital output.

I'll readily admit to being sceptical as to how it can justify it's price tag, but far from having made up my mind I'd like to hear if from the experts. Frankly if WHF review it an say it's amazing, then I'll be saving up and demoing one at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd be impressed if one could run spreadsheets on the Naim box and also access fine forums such as this one from the server.

Otherwise it rips, it stores, it serves, and offers option of an SSD for primary storage, all in one Naim-sized box. 24 bit DAC just like everyone else. Nice for Naim fans, may irritate others it seems by it's very existence, but so what? Just don't buy one.

It is tough for the Hi fi industry venturing into IT space but the two worlds are converging so there is little choice.

This looks an 'interesting product'.

 

[Ajani]

I think there are two questions to be asked about the UnitiServe:

1) Does it sound better than using some sort of computer/streamer as digital ripper, storage and transport?

2) Is it more convenient than using a computer/streamer?

I suspect that only a small number of potential customers for this product are truly interested in the first question. However I also suspect that many die-hard Naim fans, wanting to venture into Music Servers, will gobble this product up because it is a Naim and the answer to question 2 is likely a yes....

I know a number of audiophiles who don't trust computers as a music source (regardless of what any reviewer says), but would trust a "computer" built by their favourite HiFi brand...

Also, the UnitiServe is undoubtedly expensive for what it is, but then again many audiophiles pay as much (or more) for a regular CD Transport....

 

[Audioholic]

The basic answer, it's a NAS with a Naim badge slapped on it and at a 800% premium what you'd usually pay for a computer piece of a equipment that does exactly the same thing.

 

[Andrew Everard]

That's a very basic answer: presumably you're not itching for a review, given that you've already made up your mind without seeing or hearing it?

 

[AlmaataKZ]

I am with the OP, Craig et al on that.

I do not see it as pre-judging a product before it is released or heard/tested. This is understanding a product and it's design and therefore comparing 'what it is' part with alternatives like e.g. a computer. This is especially valid for many recent music products that employ parts used in computers - cd/dvd drives, network/wireless modules, DACs etc.

I think it is absolutely normal to try to challenge a new product by trying to understand what it actually is and what it does to the signal before the 'hands and ears on' part starts. And the proof of consumer interst in that part is in the furums.

 

[manicm]

Well I am patently not with the OP. You can assume all you want, but until you've heard the thing you cannot pass judgement.

If the HDX and this thing is so expensive, so redundant, well why haven't other makers made similar products at lesser price points? (Arcam and CA did have similar products but they came nowhere near the HDX in terms of audio reproduction).

Just maybe they can't guarantee the quality of rips that Naim can?

Likewise no-one has yet produced the true equivalent of a Linn DS yet - well maybe with Marantz's new streamer.

And I'm not a Naim or Linn owner or fanboy, and do not necessarily aspire to owning their products based on their brand or prestige.

 

[AL13N]

simonclayt:It is tough for the Hi fi industry venturing into IT space but the two worlds are converging so there is little choice.
Audioholic:The basic answer, it's a NAS with a Naim badge slapped on it and at a 800% premium what you'd usually pay for a computer piece of a equipment that does exactly the same thing.
I think herein lies the problem. The IT world has become used to cutthroat pricing/competition over the years. Many buying cheap components themselves and building their own systems.

Now they are being introduced to the world of Hi-Fi pricing and are becoming irrate, frustrated, angry.

Why though, I haven't a clue. I have many friends and family in the IT world - project managers, programmers, those that build computers for a hobby. All of them laughed when reading about this product online. None of them became angry or irrate.

If you're fortunate enough to possess knowledge regarding the value of a product and believe it to be under or over priced, then either snap it up or leave it alone.

 

[Craig M.]

i think the problem is they'd quite like one (me too), it's got a naim badge on it, looks quite cool, will have some pride of ownership, etc. then they see the price, and are angry because they'd quite like one but have a good idea how much it likely cost to make, and that making it won't involve any witchcraft. the idea that only naim know how to correctly rip a cd is laughable.

 

[manicm]

Craig M.:the idea that only naim know how to correctly rip a cd is laughable.

Nobody stated this but yourself. But I guarantee you it's much better than you could possibly think.

 

[Craig M.]

manicm:
Just maybe they can't guarantee the quality of rips that Naim can?

i have heard a hdx as a transport quite recently, it wasn't at my house, but it didn't seem any different to me compared to the nas that was also used. i can see why some people will be happy to pay for one, but i honestly don't think it offers anything above competence regards sound quality when used as a transport.

don't see what's so good about the ds either, sounds alright but hopeless user interface, even the dealer was cursing it.

 

[malthus80]

Dan Turner:chebby:

No just bored at the prospect of the same old regurgitated HDX type arguments that are going to happen when the UnitiServ is launched.

Debates that 99 percent of UnitiServ customers will never read because they won't ever go within a Wiltshire mile of a hifi website or magazine, and will only interest people who (a) can't afford it anyway, or (b) people who have already made their minds up that it is a rip-off.

But this is what interests me and the fact that the debate has happened 1000 times on this and other forums is the very reason why I think it would be great for the experts to take a look at this whole issue - and i thought combining it with the review of the UnitiServe would be perfect because as a product, purely in sound quality terms, it would be a like-for-like comparison to any other computer-based music server-type system with a digital output.

I'll readily admit to being sceptical as to how it can justify it's price tag, but far from having made up my mind I'd like to hear if from the experts. Frankly if WHF review it an say it's amazing, then I'll be saving up and demoing one at the earliest opportunity.

Spot on. I think this issue needs to be resolved. Its certainly an area which interests me as i own a pc with terabyte drive but as a hifi purist im not convinced it could ever act as a hifi source but would like to know one way or the other.

 

[AL13N]

manicm:Craig M.:the idea that only naim know how to correctly rip a cd is laughable.Nobody stated this but yourself. But I guarantee you it's much better than you could possibly think.
Um, care to expand on that?

All I know, from Naim themselves, is: "This new product extracts the data from CDs using unique, in-house developed techniques and algorithms to ensure that the ripped data represents a faultless replica of the CD".

I haven't a clue how this compares to say free software that verifies ripped tracks against an Internet database, making sure they are error free.

Have you compared various ripping software? What were your results?

 

[AL13N]

Craig M.:i have heard a hdx as a transport quite recently ... don't see what's so good about the ds either
To be fair to both those products, they do feature analogue circuitry and DACs which can effect the sound quality. Whether you think that quality is worth the asking price is upto the individual.

The UnitiServe has neither.

 

[Craig M.]

it was more in response to manicm re. the hdx (if i understood his post correctly), i recently heard one at a clients house, the guy had a lavry dac and naim pre power with neat standmounts, i asked him if it was better off the hdd then the cd and he said it was, and he volunteered that in his opinion the hdx and the nas sounded the same, after hearing a little bit of music from both, i'd have to agree with him. incidently, it's the first time i've heard naim outside a dealers demo room, where i've never been that impressed, and it sounded really good.

and back to the unitiserve...

 

[Anonymous]

An interesting thread, and I would be really interested in a comparison of software - say dbPowerAmp rips and the Naim UnitiServe. Ive just started re-ripping my CDs into FLAC rather than Apple Lossless (both lossless, but an error when ripping by iTunes is generally skipped, whereas dbPowerAmp offers bit accurate FLAC rips).

There is bound to be something interesting in the way that CDs can be ripped between the computer route and the dedicated hi-fi hardware route. There could also be something interesting in how the CD as a whole is stored - as I noticed that the check-sum alters according to the file offset used when ripping a CD using dbPOwerAmp. Not sure what effect that would have, but it leaves technical wizzardry wriggle room.

Happy to write the review if someone lends me a UnitiServe....

 

[chebby]

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