naim question

[Blacksabbath25]

... so they would match the like's of marantz PM7007 Yamaha A--S801 , Arcam A19 or A38 which I think the A19 been discontinued .

The Arcam A38 was discontinued in favour of the A39. The A19 appears on their website as a current model.

There has never been a Marantz PM7007.

yep your correct I meant marantz PM7005 edit... the last time I went into richer sounds they told me the Arcam A19 was being discontinued but this was some time ago when I want to richer sounds maybe they mean they are not stocking it anymore .

as I did look my self on the Arcam website and your right they are still showing it on there website but not n the richer sounds site .

 

[chebby]

....the same happened with Arcam they used to make everything up the road from me now it's all made in China .

America.

Arcam's owners are head-quartered in Canada (JAM Industries) and manufacture a lot of the Arcam kit in JAM's facility in Rochester NY now.

Some of their cheap stuff is still made in China.

 

[nopiano]

I've never owned a Naim product, but I've heard a number of them ever since I was loaned an early NAC 12 and NAP 250. I think they were the numbers - a preamp with phono board and the original power amp. Probably made by Mr Vereker himself. Had terrible switch on thump, was sensitive to electrical switches around the house, hissed quite a lot, but sounded lively and enjoyable.

They still sound lively, and the PRAT thing was the way it was marketed. I get the idea, but since my references tend to be orchestras, singers and pianos, comparing obscure pop tracks wasn't my bag! From an engineering angle, I gather they use an inductor in the output stage that reduces the damping factor. That may give a 'boppy' bass, but I'd always thought low output impedance was worth striving for.

A few years ago I attended a Naim roadshow with the quite new streaming products and a new DAC. I'd almost convinced myself streaming and hi-def was the future, and their NDX seemed great and almost affordable. It sounded fine too. Then they plugged in the standalone DAC, in lieu of the built in one. It sounded much better. That did it for me: I'd be permanently dissatisfied! There would always be another few grand required to upgrade.

I still don't get why they need servicing regularly and I suspect it's about profits not good design or specs. But they are British and the backup support is great. Not for me though.

 

[CnoEvil]

@NP

I owned a 42/110/SNAPS back in the day. Combined with the LP12 of that time, it sounded great through some MA 852s....but I believe this was due to a special synergy that existed between Linn and Naim, where they offset each other's flaws.

When I sold the LP12, I hated the way the Karik/Numerik sound through the Naim....and wasn't that impressed with the way the LP12 sounded through Kairn/LK100.

I have not enjoyed current Naim amps...and in particular, I find the combination with Focal, not to my taste.

 

[Pedro]

It can go the other way too i.e.a amplifier that's over engineered both Yamaha & marantz have built amplifiers that have been well over engineered in the past so I do understand Naim's principle in how they build there stuff .

but in respect of the bottom end of there market on Naim separates I would of thought they would be a little more competitive in there prices so they would match the like's of marantz PM7007 Yamaha A--S801 , Arcam A19 or A38 which I think the A19 been discontinued .

but basically Naim would do well selling around the £500-£600 mark to give people on a budget a taste of Naim if that makes any sense .

I'm not an expert on marketing by any means, but I guess loads of people wouldn't take Naim seriously enough.

I reckon going after the 500-600 quid market would put them in a difficult spot as well, they would have to compete with brands that mass produce amps...

well it's a case of the China can knock out amplifiers cheaper then us here in the U.K. So I would of thought Naim would have larger over heads the same happened with Arcam they used to make everything up the road from me now it's all made in China .

not sure if the roskin stuff is made here still or if it's made in China but roskin is a U.K. Company

It would be the complete opposite of their (successful) business model....

 

[nopiano]

@NP

I owned a 42/110/SNAPS back in the day. Combined with the LP12 of that time, it sounded great through some MA 852s....but I believe this was due to a special synergy that existed between Linn and Naim, where they offset each other's flaws.

When I sold the LP12, I hated the way the Karik/Numerik sound through the Naim....and wasn't that impressed with the way the LP12 sounded through Kairn/LK100.

I have not enjoyed current Naim amps...and in particular, I find the combination with Focal, not to my taste.

Hi Cno, yes I agree about the lack of obvious synergy with Focal, though they are better than Naims own speakers which I never got on with.

Certain recent combinations have sounded fine, such as with PMCs and Guru Juniors, to recall two systems I've liked with Naim sources. But I still can't see myself owning Naim.

 

[Pedro]

@NP

I owned a 42/110/SNAPS back in the day. Combined with the LP12 of that time, it sounded great through some MA 852s....but I believe this was due to a special synergy that existed between Linn and Naim, where they offset each other's flaws.

When I sold the LP12, I hated the way the Karik/Numerik sound through the Naim....and wasn't that impressed with the way the LP12 sounded through Kairn/LK100.

I have not enjoyed current Naim amps...and in particular, I find the combination with Focal, not to my taste.

Hi Cno, yes I agree about the lack of obvious synergy with Focal, though they are better than Naims own speakers which I never got on with.

Certain recent combinations have sounded fine, such as with PMCs and Guru Juniors, to recall two systems I've liked with Naim sources. But I still can't see myself owning Naim.

I could see myself owning Naim (the company).

Oh btw and offtopic the sia2-150 in tandem with the SCM11s is just amazing. Hope you're enjoying the 40s!

 

[Vladimir]

David does a good job as a salesman. I'm outgunned as a mere substandard hobbyist. *drinks*

 

[davidf]

David does a good job as a salesman. I'm outgunned as a mere substandard hobbyist. *drinks*

You forget that this has been a hobby of mine since my father owned large Wharfedale speakers that were larger than me at the time. I'm not only in this industry just because I can't design commercial aircraft or supercars...

 

[nopiano]

@NP

I owned a 42/110/SNAPS back in the day. Combined with the LP12 of that time, it sounded great through some MA 852s....but I believe this was due to a special synergy that existed between Linn and Naim, where they offset each other's flaws.

When I sold the LP12, I hated the way the Karik/Numerik sound through the Naim....and wasn't that impressed with the way the LP12 sounded through Kairn/LK100.

I have not enjoyed current Naim amps...and in particular, I find the combination with Focal, not to my taste.

Hi Cno, yes I agree about the lack of obvious synergy with Focal, though they are better than Naims own speakers which I never got on with.

Certain recent combinations have sounded fine, such as with PMCs and Guru Juniors, to recall two systems I've liked with Naim sources. But I still can't see myself owning Naim.

I could see myself owning Naim (the company).

Oh btw and offtopic the sia2-150 in tandem with the SCM11s is just amazing. Hope you're enjoying the 40s!

Ha, yes, I meant a Naim! However pondering the commercial side of Hifi, which I don't often do, is nevertheless salutary. It's not big business like a supermarket or insurance company, though some on what I think of as 'on the margins', like Sonos, apparently do big bucks. Soundbars and wireless speakers seem to be big business. I suppose when I first got interested, it was the likes of Sony and Hitachi and JVC that had the money, partly thanks to colour TV money. Naim have done well to expand as they have with both higher-margin traditional gear, plus the higher volume Muso range.

I'm sure the ATC pairing is sensational! Enjoying mine enormously, thank you.

 

[manicm]

....the same happened with Arcam they used to make everything up the road from me now it's all made in China .

America.

Arcam's owners are head-quartered in Canada (JAM Industries) and manufacture a lot of the Arcam kit in JAM's facility in Rochester NY now.

Some of their cheap stuff is still made in China.

Depends what you mean by cheap. All their Solo stuff is made in China. Some of the FMJ stuff is made in Vietnam. I think it's only the 49 series that's made in the US.

 

[Paulq]

@Blacksabbath you ask some really good questions. I have tried Naim stuff before out of curiosity and, whilst it wasn't for me, it's definitely worth a listen so grab yourself a day out at some dealers even if it just satisfies your curiosity. *biggrin*

It is expensive, without doubt, but I'd contest the perhaps overly technical view that their internals are terrible. Naim have been making stuff for years, I know people who have owned the same kit for years and it's never let them down and continues to perform well. If it was as bad as some people make out they'd never sell any - people are not daft; despite what some may think. Naim have a cult following and some Naim owners are technically very knowledgeable.

Some good deals to be had on the previous gen Superuniti right now - with the right speakers that's a great piece of kit.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

@Blacksabbath you ask some really good questions. I have tried Naim stuff before out of curiosity and, whilst it wasn't for me, it's definitely worth a listen so grab yourself a day out at some dealers even if it just satisfies your curiosity. *biggrin*

It is expensive, without doubt, but I'd contest the perhaps overly technical view that their internals are terrible. Naim have been making stuff for years, I know people who have owned the same kit for years and it's never let them down and continues to perform well. If it was as bad as some people make out they'd never sell any - people are not daft; despite what some may think. Naim have a cult following and some Naim owners are technically very knowledgeable.

Some good deals to be had on the previous gen Superuniti right now - with the right speakers that's a great piece of kit.

yes its pure curiosity i am very happy with my yamaha A-S2100 and its matching cdplayer .

but you what its like there are so meany brands out there that you never look at or listen to as people seem to stick with brands they no and trust . Naim for some reason is a brand i would like to listen too or maybe own one day .

 

[macdiddy]

and thought it was over my budget but a couple of years ago after getting a bonus at work I managed to find a mint cd player on Ebay for about half the normal price which for me has replaced years of having to put up with budget cd spinners because i never had the budget for higher-end equipment.

*music2*

 

[tonky]

and thought it was over my budget but a couple of years ago after getting a bonus at work I managed to find a mint cd player on Ebay for about half the normal price which for me has replaced years of having to put up with budget cd spinners because i never had the budget for higher-end equipment.

*music2*

Nice one - hope the sound quality was a good jump up for you as well!

tonky

 

[drummerman]

I do like the modern Naim Sound. There is a limit how far up I'd go (or could afford to go) and their CD player swing doors and pucks are the coolest solution the format has to offer imho.

So their stuff can be expensive ... whats the problem? Made in the UK and re-sale values stay high.

You get a mostly iconic design from an iconic brand. Instantly recognizable if only by those 'who know'.

Its all relative.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I do like the modern Naim Sound. There is a limit how far up I'd go (or could afford to go) and their CD player swing doors and pucks are the coolest solution the format has to offer imho.

So their stuff can be expensive ... whats the problem? Made in the UK and re-sale values stay high.

You get a mostly iconic design from an iconic brand. Instantly recognizable if only by those 'who know'.

Its all relative.

I had a pioneer cdplayer in the 1990s that used to have the puck so that idea been around for quite sometime .

i did go to seven oaks hifi and have a look at a Naim cdplayer but at the time the price put me off as they wanted £2000 for a cdplayer I could not get a demo as the shop just moved to different shop and they only had them on the shelf so never had a chance to hear Naim then .

 

[stevebrock]

Well I think Naim gear sounds great

my mate has a Supernait 2 and on its own sounds excellent - when he adds a Hi Cap - it's just takes it onto another level with imaging & soundstage

I believe the Hi Cap supplies power to the pre & motorised volume control ?

It also has the DR technology that has trickled down from the 500 series.

im actually even tempted to get an SN2 myself, the gear looks superb built like a tank & you can get a used SN2 for a little over £2k

 

[nopiano]

Well I think Naim gear sounds great

my mate has a Supernait 2 and on its own sounds excellent - when he adds a Hi Cap - it's just takes it onto another level with imaging & soundstage

I believe the Hi Cap supplies power to the pre & motorised volume control ?

It also has the DR technology that has trickled down from the 500 series.

im actually even tempted to get an SN2 myself, the gear looks superb built like a tank & you can get a used SN2 for a little over £2k

It certainly can sound very enjoyable, but I'd definitely first try it in your system if taking the plunge. Maybe your mate can let you borrow or swap for a few days?

The Naim will doubtless be fun, but for my money/ears you have the more accurate device already.

 

[drummerman]

Well I think Naim gear sounds great 

my mate has a Supernait 2 and on its own sounds excellent - when he adds a Hi Cap - it's just takes it onto another level with imaging & soundstage 

I believe the Hi Cap supplies power to the pre & motorised volume control ?

It also has the DR technology that has trickled down from the 500 series.

im actually even tempted to get an SN2 myself, the gear looks superb built like a tank & you can get a used SN2 for a little over £2k 

It certainly can sound very enjoyable, but I'd definitely first try it in your system if taking the plunge.  Maybe your mate can let you borrow or swap for a few days?  

The Naim will doubtless be fun, but for my money/ears you have the more accurate device already. 

... and we all know that is the be all and end all of our hobby ...

 

[Blacksabbath25]

This is another thing I do not understand about Naim

take the Naim supernait 2 which has a power supply of 400va why add extra power supply's to the Naim supernait which it has a good one already and the fact that Naim offers 3 different kinds of power supply's to add to the Naim supernait 2 as a upgrade ..... I did read somewhere that the extra power supply runs the pre side of things as the Naim supernait has a proper pre section and power section .

and let's say I add a power amplifier to my Yamaha you would all say it would be a wasting my money but if you add a power amplifier to a Naim supernait 2 then that's a different matter why ?

I thought you do not gain nothing in using a power amplifier and it was better to buy one good amplifier instead .

 

[drummerman]

This is another thing I do not understand about Naim 

take the Naim supernait 2 which has a power supply of 400va why add extra power supply's to the Naim supernait which it has a good one already and the fact that Naim offers 3 different kinds of power supply's to add to the Naim supernait 2 as a upgrade ..... I did read somewhere that the extra power supply runs the pre side of things as the Naim supernait has a proper pre section and power section .

and let's say I add a power amplifier to my Yamaha you would all say it would be a wasting my money but if you add a power amplifier to a Naim supernait 2 then that's a different matter why ? 

I thought you do not gain nothing in using a power amplifier and it was better to buy one good amplifier instead .

Regulated external power supplies can make a substantial difference to sound as I can attest. Even properly designed integrated can benefit. How far do you want to go?

 

[nopiano]

Well I think Naim gear sounds great

my mate has a Supernait 2 and on its own sounds excellent - when he adds a Hi Cap - it's just takes it onto another level with imaging & soundstage

I believe the Hi Cap supplies power to the pre & motorised volume control ?

It also has the DR technology that has trickled down from the 500 series.

im actually even tempted to get an SN2 myself, the gear looks superb built like a tank & you can get a used SN2 for a little over £2k

It certainly can sound very enjoyable, but I'd definitely first try it in your system if taking the plunge. Maybe your mate can let you borrow or swap for a few days?

The Naim will doubtless be fun, but for my money/ears you have the more accurate device already.

... and we all know that is the be all and end all of our hobby ...

...our hobby being called high fidelity...!

 

[Blacksabbath25]

This is another thing I do not understand about Naim

take the Naim supernait 2 which has a power supply of 400va why add extra power supply's to the Naim supernait which it has a good one already and the fact that Naim offers 3 different kinds of power supply's to add to the Naim supernait 2 as a upgrade ..... I did read somewhere that the extra power supply runs the pre side of things as the Naim supernait has a proper pre section and power section .

and let's say I add a power amplifier to my Yamaha you would all say it would be a wasting my money but if you add a power amplifier to a Naim supernait 2 then that's a different matter why ?

I thought you do not gain nothing in using a power amplifier and it was better to buy one good amplifier instead .

Regulated external power supplies can make a substantial difference to sound as I can attest. Even properly designed integrated can benefit. How far do you want to go?

just understanding the product really and what benefits they give and if it's worth it .

what would I gain if I add a power amplifier to my Yamaha would there be a benefit or would this be pointless I've been here before with a marantz power amp but it never worked out of the box so never knew if back then if I would of gained anything or not .

 

[stevebrock]

Naim place great emphasis on the their power supplies - I was sceptical but even the £1250 Hi Cap DR made a siginifacant improvement to the SN2 - crazy init - Naim do know what they are doing.....music first