naim question

[Blacksabbath25]

I've got a question and it's been bugging me for a long time now I am not after a new amplifier here just to find out why Naim stuff is so expensive for not a lot of electronics inside .

now I understand they are made in the U.K. Which is a good thing but when you look inside a Naim supernait 2 which I think is Naim's flagship amplifier there not really much inside to honor the very large price tag apart from the large power supply .

forgive me to those people who own one or any Naim stuff a specially Mark as I am sure he will be a long in a minute to tell me off . I do not want to slate the brand just interested to find out what makes this brand so good for the money .

 

[Andrewjvt]

I've got a question and it's been bugging me for a long time now I am not after a new amplifier here just to find out why Naim stuff is so expensive for not a lot of electronics inside .

now I understand they are made in the U.K. Which is a good thing but when you look inside a Naim supernait 2 which I think is Naim's flagship amplifier there not really much inside to honor the very large price tag apart from the large power supply .

forgive me to those people who own one or any Naim stuff a specially Mark as I am sure he will be a long in a minute to tell me off . I do not want to slate the brand just interested to find out what makes this brand so good for the money .

I think youve answered your own question

 

[tonky]

I've got a question and it's been bugging me for a long time now I am not after a new amplifier here just to find out why Naim stuff is so expensive for not a lot of electronics inside .

now I understand they are made in the U.K. Which is a good thing but when you look inside a Naim supernait 2 which I think is Naim's flagship amplifier there not really much inside to honor the very large price tag apart from the large power supply .

forgive me to those people who own one or any Naim stuff a specially Mark as I am sure he will be a long in a minute to tell me off . I do not want to slate the brand just interested to find out what makes this brand so good for the money .

People listen to music - good demonstrations at home etc - they see the price - compare products etc.

Then they make their own minds up and whatever they choose is up to them - the consumer decides if it's value for money. Whether it's Naim, Marantz, Abrahammson, Yamaha, NAD Hegel etc. I very much doubt they will want to look inside and "cost it up". Have you listened to any Naim equipment? If people don't think it's value for money - don't buy it. And that applies to any other brand I suppose.

They seem to be popular with many people tho - their money - their choice.

I personally haven't heard that much - I used to be a Naim sceptic until I had a good home demo of an ex demo Unitilite.

I liked it - I bought it. Don't know what it looks like inside - not too bothered either - I like the way music sounds tho.

tonky

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

forgive me to those people who own one or any Naim stuff a specially Mark as I am sure he will be a long in a minute to tell me off . .

https://youtu.be/xPfdERaAdNc

Hi Sabbath....tell you off.lol.no not at all,everyone's entitled to their own views.but check out the link above to see what naim are all about,there's plenty other amps I'd love to hear but today tell you the truth I also love how my xs sounds...the brands ethos is fundamentally based on PRAT...pace,rhythm and timing within the music and tend to steer away from over anylitacal products.The Supernait 2 is naims flagship integrated but their pre/power combos can be some of the most expensive amplification you'll find....check out Statement

.I haven't got a clue what's inside my xs but it sounds good and better than my previous arcam /Cambridge audio /marantz kit.....if you're so intrigued..go have a listen...it's free.lol.oh and I don't think my links worked as I'm on my phone..but it's a vintage naim factory video from 1989.

 

[plastic penguin]

No idea about Naim's internals. I do know, however, with the right speakers and source they sound impressive. Easy to see why people gravitate to the brand.

They are not expensive in basic form, it's only when you start adding power sources and suchlike that the prices rack up.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I must confess I've never listened to a Naim hifi yet

what I was getting at is when you compare my amplifier with Naim's flagship amplifier there is loads more going on in my Yamaha electronically with components then the flagship Naim .

all you see in the Naim is a large power supply and large pots and a heat sink with a board that it for £3000 .

mine as a custom power supply , a fully balanced XLR board , double heat sinks , large pots , separate pre -amp if you want to and so much more for less money .

i get that it's about how it sounds that's why people buy them and not bothered what's inside but for £3000 I would of thought the Naim flagship amplifier would be packed with technology up to the roof for that kind of money .

 

[jjbomber]

what I was getting at is when you compare my amplifier with Naim's flagship amplifier there is loads more going on in my Yamaha electronically with components then the flagship Naim .

Compare a lump of coal to a diamond. There's your answer.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Electronically speaking isn't a case of less is more.

Naim try and keep signal paths to a minimum and don't faf about with tone controls.....also naim have their own 5pin din/snaic cables that negates the need for balanced xlr connections within a full naim system,and they're great believers in keeping the pre/power section and pre/psu section separate . it's all tiny increments of improvement at a cost of course....

 

[andyjm]

Electronic components cost very little. Fancy aluminium cases, large transformers cost more. R&D is extremely expensive.

For the sake of argument, lets say Denon and Naim both spend £1M on designing a new amp.

Denon sell 100,000, Naim sell 1000.

Irrespective of the cost of the innards, the Naim need to charge at least £1000 to cover their development costs, Denon £10.

Naim may have slightly better potentiometers and connectors, but most of the components will be made in Shenzhen along with all the other electronic components used in the world. Even fancy high spec caps and resistors cost very litte.

The real driver of price difference is volume, and the economies of scale.

 

[Pedro]

I'll just add that Naim makes realiable products and they service their kit at Salisbury for as long as there are parts available. Many companies just sell you a product and if it breaks down tough luck.

 

[Electro]

I have never liked the Naim sound or understood what P.R.A.T. is when listening to music .

I have listened to live music hundreds of times and never heard PRAT it so I would guess it is a marketing buzz word.

The only bit of naim kit I have owned personally is the Nat o2 tuner and that was a big dissapointment that was totally outclassed by a Sony 777ES tuner.

Some people love the Naim sound but to me the fact that it has a Naim sound rules it out for me.

As to value and the amount of bits in the box it is a well know fact that you have to buy multiple extra boxes and power supplies to make it sound good, I don't understand why they just don't fit them with a big enough power supply in the first place .

All in my opinion of course. *biggrin*

 

[lindsayt]

If Naim spend were to spend £1 million designing and developing a stereo amplifer then they would be incompetent. I don't think they're incompetent. I merely think they have a pricing structure that's not as lean as other sources of amplifiers.

People like Colin Wonfor and Tim de Paravicini can design amplifiers in their heads. Good amplifiers too. They would never need a £1 million budget to design a state of the art stereo amplifier.

I think that Blacksabbath has hit the nail on the head. In terms of component and manufacturing costs, Naim products are relatively over-priced new and second hand. From NAP250 level upwards their amps sound good. They make good sounding CD players too. But there are alternatives that sound equally good or better for less money, sometimes far less money - like about 10 times less.

There's the infamous images of Naim Flatcaps:

£879 for this Flatcap 2.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

The onboard power supplies are ample for the amps it's just that they have offered the option to add a external unit to power the pre amp section to enhance performance as they believe that the units perform better in this way it is the naim philosophy but they sound rather good out of the box without them....it's not as if you have to buy them although I do believe one or two of the upper end pre amps might need the napsc to function but I think that they are supplied with the unit in the first place.I very much doubt I'll get that far up the naim ladder.lol.

 

[Vladimir]

If BlackSabbath is currious why we were praising Leema and Naim so highly in the Amp recommend thread, I asure him I used every drop of sarcasm and facetiousness in my body.

 

[chebby]

There's the infamous images of Naim Flatcaps:

£879 for this Flatcap 2.

I don't get it. There is plenty of space to get a decent power and pre-amp in there. Waste of space and money and raw materials.

Is it just so that Naim users (naim-userties?) can have the longest groups of acronyms when describing their set-ups? ...

"Well I have a 2 x NAXO (+ PAXO) - SNAC-PAC + NAP-SAC + NIC-NAC + FLAT-PAC system."

 

[macdiddy]

I think this link should answer your questions regarding the amount of space inside naim equipment.

https://www.naimaudio.com/why-naim

*boredom*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I think this link should answer your questions regarding the amount of space inside naim equipment.

https://www.naimaudio.com/why-naim

*boredom*

I've looked at the link Naim says We give each of the critical components their own environment, omitting outside or ‘toxic’ interference, which means no compromise on the purity of sound.

What's toxic about your living room ? It's advertising rubbish

i get that people like The Naim stuff because it sounds really good to them and the fact it's British built but what I do not get is why is there stuff so over priced ?

 

[Pedro]

I think this link should answer your questions regarding the amount of space inside naim equipment.

https://www.naimaudio.com/why-naim

*boredom*

https://www.naimaudio.com/infinite-curiosity

I own a Naim streamer. If I had seen this prior to buying one...

 

[Pedro]

It's not only Naim. There's a world of mysticism out there. It seems people call them audiophiles.

http://www.rutherfordaudio.com/products/burmester-948-power-conditioner/

Burmester takes one of the prizes.

We could start a cable thread, a cable burn in thread, the Prat thread, the musical amp thread, the mystical kettle mais lead thread. Or the golden ear thread.

 

[lindsayt]

1. Space

We give each of the critical components their own environment, omitting outside or ‘toxic’ interference, which means no compromise on the purity of sound.

As you go to the top of the range you get less air inside the cases and more components.

This is like Goldilocks and the 3 bears. Towards the bottom of the range there aren't enough components inside the box. At the top there are too many. Somewhere in the middle is the component count just right?

 

[tonky]

I must confess I've never listened to a Naim hifi yet

what I was getting at is when you compare my amplifier with Naim's flagship amplifier there is loads more going on in my Yamaha electronically with components then the flagship Naim .

all you see in the Naim is a large power supply and large pots and a heat sink with a board that it for £3000 .

mine as a custom power supply , a fully balanced XLR board , double heat sinks , large pots , separate pre -amp if you want to and so much more for less money .

i get that it's about how it sounds that's why people buy them and not bothered what's inside but for £3000 I would of thought the Naim flagship amplifier would be packed with technology up to the roof for that kind of money .

BS Did you buy your Yamaha because the internal components looked so impressive compared to other amps ?- it's a very objective way of buying an amp - if we all thought that way manufacturers would find it easy to impress the gullible.

Maybe the way music is presented as sound has something to do with it? I don't know Naim's pricing strategy and much of their stuff is v pricey. I am sure people who buy it listen mostly and compare it with other component stuffed equipment. - Before making an informed choice.

You pays your money etc - Personally tho I'd find it very difficult to criticise a manufacturer if I hadn't listened to ANY of their equipment.

tonky

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I must confess I've never listened to a Naim hifi yet

what I was getting at is when you compare my amplifier with Naim's flagship amplifier there is loads more going on in my Yamaha electronically with components then the flagship Naim .

all you see in the Naim is a large power supply and large pots and a heat sink with a board that it for £3000 .

mine as a custom power supply , a fully balanced XLR board , double heat sinks , large pots , separate pre -amp if you want to and so much more for less money .

i get that it's about how it sounds that's why people buy them and not bothered what's inside but for £3000 I would of thought the Naim flagship amplifier would be packed with technology up to the roof for that kind of money .

BS Did you buy your Yamaha because the internal components looked so impressive compared to other amps ?- it's a very objective way of buying an amp - if we all thought that way manufacturers would find it easy to impress the gullible.

Maybe the way music is presented as sound has something to do with it? I don't know Naim's pricing strategy and much of their stuff is v pricey. I am sure people who buy it listen mostly and compare it with other component stuffed equipment. - Before making an informed choice.

You pays your money etc - Personally tho I'd find it very difficult to criticise a manufacturer if I hadn't listened to ANY of their equipment.

tonky

I did say right from the start that this thread was not about slating anyone's Naim gear I was interested to find what people liked about Naim and if they thought it was worth the high price Naim sells there stuff for .

no I never brought the Yamaha for what it looked or what was inside only what it sounded like and I was only using what I have to compare with the Naim flagship amplifier and what you get for the money so when I see some picture of the flagship Naim amplifier I thought for £3000 you do not get much under the hood like I have with the Yamaha .

but completely understand that the Naim amplifier would sound pretty good and Naim have been around for lots of years which is a good thing and the bonus is it's made in the U.K.

 

[jjbomber]

I must confess I've never listened to a Naim hifi yet

BS Did you buy your Yamaha because the internal components looked so impressive compared to other amps ?

It sounds like it. He went to the dealers and sat in the demo room. Then he took out a screwdriver and took the casing off a few amps. He bought the one that looked the fullest.

But .... did he take the cover off the Cyrus kit? That is a full box as it's only half size. So is that a good thing or a bad thing? We need to know. And if you upgrade the screwdriver to a thicker one, does it affect the outcome? Ummm

 

[Blacksabbath25]

My nait xs is the first amp I've owned that can make any sense of bring the boys back home on pink floyd's the wall album..it is a fantastic short test for a stereo systems dynamics and ability to unravel all that......well noise.lol oh and I got it for £750....I doubt there's an amplifier out there as good for that kind of money.

sounds like you got a bargain mate

nothing like a good bit of Pink Floyd I have all of there albums also a big fan of David Gilmore solo stuff too .

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I must confess I've never listened to a Naim hifi yet

BS Did you buy your Yamaha because the internal components looked so impressive compared to other amps ?

It sounds like it. He went to the dealers and sat in the demo room. Then he took out a screwdriver and took the casing off a few amps. He bought the one that looked the fullest.

But .... did he take the cover off the Cyrus kit? That is a full box as it's only half size. So is that a good thing or a bad thing? We need to know. And if you upgrade the screwdriver to a thicker one, does it affect the outcome? Ummm

very funny *blum3*

actually I did have to take the lid of my amplifier about 6 months ago as the amplifier would not come out of protection mode so took the lid of to see if I could see a problem so that's when I found out I had a V8 inside and not a V6 *biggrin*