Naim Nait 5i - Is it a good buy ?

[drummerman]

Or rather, would it have good synergy with my Ruark Talisman II speakers or do any of the more experienced folk on the forum have any better suggestions. I've already tried Audiolab - OK, but got a little lost at the low end when the music gets busy. I borrowed my friends cherished Musical Fidelity X-150 over night - I enjoyed the character/presentation of this amp more. Slightly warm, big sound with better imaging but I wondered if adding a dedicated power supply ( X-PSUv3 ) would give better control?

I,ve just read a glowing review or two on the 7or8 year old Naim Nate 5i which would be within my budget, now.

Apparently, unlike Naim, this amp is not fussy over cables & is a great all rounder.

Any help from Tallisman 2 owners past or present ( or anyone ) would be greatly appreciated.

I'm using decent sources. TT/phono stage/CD

My tastes range from John Martyn to Mastodon from Fairport Convention to Frank Zappa

Thanks

Yes, the external PSU will likely tighten the sound of your friends X-150 up, lower the noise floor and leave the existing power supply of the amp to deal with the output stage. Better dynamics, delineated bass, separation etc. . In essence, you will have a pre-power in one box. - I use them on my cyrus components incl. cd player.

However, as it is your friends, you won't get much benefit from it

I had a pair of Ruark Sabres for a long time and they really started to sound good with my valve amplifier (despite being of IB design and relatively inefficient). The treble unit may have been described as 'bright' then but if you put them next to your average modern designs, many of which are designed with lifted present band and treble, I'd very much doubt the same comments apply imho.

Personally, I like (modern) Naim's sound. It's not bright (Arcams/Audiolabs are 'bright'!). Naims house sound is actually quite dark, with almost subdued treble compared to some ( Naim's amplifiers are bandwidth limited and there is a lot of support and good reason for that even if not all follow that route of design). So, compared to your average (pre class G) Arcam, to give one example, you find the Naim will sound less expansive/airy, less right/left but more solid in the middle with obvious but lovely bass (Naims have an average damping factor of about 12, perhaps double or tripple that of a good valve amplifier but far less than the 50 or 100 of some competitors).

It's a driving sound which latches onto rythm and sounds pacey but not bright or harsh.

What they dont do is the super wide, almost exhaggerated left/right sound staging of some others. If that is very important to you, I'd go elsewhere but the trade-off (imo) is one of the most involving, musical sounding brands. It is no wonder that many keep their Naims for years and years.

Someone I know has a Naim system that goes back decades and still loves it. The company still services most of its products.

Someone mentioned the XS. A superb amplifier and I would happily live with it but it costs substantially more than a 5i. More power, more substance, more control but then you could say that about most upgrades within a particular brand.

A creek will, in direct comparison, probably sound overly smooth, sweeter, more hifi and lacking leading edge attack, more relaxing. Nothing wrong with that either if this is what you like. Choices

Cyrus is somewhere in between the two.

Good luck

 

[plastic penguin]

Or rather, would it have good synergy with my Ruark Talisman II speakers or do any of the more experienced folk on the forum have any better suggestions. I've already tried Audiolab - OK, but got a little lost at the low end when the music gets busy. I borrowed my friends cherished Musical Fidelity X-150 over night - I enjoyed the character/presentation of this amp more. Slightly warm, big sound with better imaging but I wondered if adding a dedicated power supply ( X-PSUv3 ) would give better control?

I,ve just read a glowing review or two on the 7or8 year old Naim Nate 5i which would be within my budget, now.

Apparently, unlike Naim, this amp is not fussy over cables & is a great all rounder.

Any help from Tallisman 2 owners past or present ( or anyone ) would be greatly appreciated.

I'm using decent sources. TT/phono stage/CD

My tastes range from John Martyn to Mastodon from Fairport Convention to Frank Zappa

Thanks

Yes, the external PSU will likely tighten the sound of your friends X-150 up, lower the noise floor and leave the existing power supply of the amp to deal with the output stage. Better dynamics, delineated bass, separation etc. . In essence, you will have a pre-power in one box. - I use them on my cyrus components incl. cd player.

However, as it is your friends, you won't get much benefit from it

I had a pair of Ruark Sabres for a long time and they really started to sound good with my valve amplifier (despite being of IB design and relatively inefficient). The treble unit may have been described as 'bright' then but if you put them next to your average modern designs, many of which are designed with lifted present band and treble, I'd very much doubt the same comments apply imho.

Personally, I like (modern) Naim's sound. It's not bright (Arcams/Audiolabs are 'bright'!). Naims house sound is actually quite dark, with almost subdued treble compared to some ( Naim's amplifiers are bandwidth limited and there is a lot of support and good reason for that even if not all follow that route of design). So, compared to your average (pre class G) Arcam, to give one example, you find the Naim will sound less expansive/airy, less right/left but more solid in the middle with obvious but lovely bass (Naims have an average damping factor of about 12, perhaps double or tripple that of a good valve amplifier but far less than the 50 or 100 of some competitors).

It's a driving sound which latches onto rythm and sounds pacey but not bright or harsh.

What they dont do is the super wide, almost exhaggerated left/right sound staging of some others. If that is very important to you, I'd go elsewhere but the trade-off (imo) is one of the most involving, musical sounding brands. It is no wonder that many keep their Naims for years and years.

Someone I know has a Naim system that goes back decades and still loves it. The company still services most of its products.

Someone mentioned the XS. A superb amplifier and I would happily live with it but it costs substantially more than a 5i. More power, more substance, more control but then you could say that about most upgrades within a particular brand.

A creek will, in direct comparison, probably sound overly smooth, sweeter, more hifi and lacking leading edge attack, more relaxing. Nothing wrong with that either if this is what you like. Choices

Cyrus is somewhere in between the two.

Good luck

We all know that system matching is essential, regardless of reviews. The Creek may not have the 'leading edge' of the Cyrus or the Leema, but matched correctly you shouldn't lose anything in this area - I heard the Evo2 with my old MA RS6s (think the RS6s and Ruarks are a fair comparison IMO).

Just to clarify what I've said through out this thread, what hi-fi filmed a video about How to...system match, and this pretty much marries my own experience of Ruarks. From 1 min and 5 secs.

 

[NMANo1]

System matching is the most important aspect of getting the right sounding setup together. I completely understand that it isn't just a case of rigging up some 5star components together & you always have a fantastic sound. A few hours spent at the dealers listening room auditioning components or ideally a home trial is really the only way to go for a surefire buy but as I've mentioned, I'm buying second hand so it basically comes down to reviews & views before I decide. Ultimately, if it doesn't work out I will move it on in 3 or 4 months & try again!

Penguin: You have been the most persistent in advising me away from the Naim route as you suggest there will be a clash between the Ruark speakers & the amp. Bright v Bright. While I do understand the logic in this I don't think the Ruark speakers are too bright & apparently the newer Naim amps are lesser so than they used to be. I appreciate the advice & effort in your posts so I'm sorry to disappoint you but I am now excitedly awaiting delivery of my newly purchased 3yr old Nait 5i.

As Homer once said (from the Illiad, I think ).. Woohoo !

Thanks to all who posted, I appreciate it.

*For anyone interested I will post how 'we all' get on in a few weeks.

Cheers

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Would that be a italic model then?looking forward to see how you get on with it then.good choice and be prepared for the bite of the upgrade bug.lol.

 

[rainsoothe]

A few points on other amps that were mentioned: Arcam aren't bright, at least the A19 isn't at all. As for Naim, the 5i (italic) is a bright one. If you want a smooth one, the first gen Nait XS is really smooth. Same goes for first gen Supernait, which is pretty warm (well not overlysmooth, as the XS is). I found the Nait 5si bright-ish the first time I heard it, but with the Dac V1 used as a pre-amp for instance, it sounded just right. Creek Evo 50A is bright and sort of lacks cojones. The earlier Creek Evo 2, though, sounds better imo.

 

[plastic penguin]

A few points on other amps that were mentioned: Arcam aren't bright, at least the A19 isn't at all. As for Naim, the 5i (italic) is a bright one. If you want a smooth one, the first gen Nait XS is really smooth. Same goes for first gen Supernait, which is pretty warm (well not overlysmooth, as the XS is). I found the Nait 5si bright-ish the first time I heard it, but with the Dac V1 used as a pre-amp for instance, it sounded just right. Creek Evo 50A is bright and sort of lacks cojones. The earlier Creek Evo 2, though, sounds better imo.

I just found the 5i and Italic version too aggressive with my MAs. IIRC the Ruark Sabre III seem to have a top end eagerness that is similar to the MAs.

It would be Creek Evo2 all the way - very accomplished amp, and can be had for good money.

 

[chebby]

In my house the Nait 5i-2 and NAT05 made two halves of an excellent FM radio only system. (Two years with these components using Naim's own nSAT bookshelf speakers mostly and a short period with MS20i Pearl Editions.)

The 'matching' Naim CD5i-2 player was nothing of the sort (I used to have to turn the amp right down to tame it). So it got used less and less over about a year before being boxed up and stored away in favour of using a Beresford TC-7520 DAC fed by my laptop instead. (I was able to adjust the DAC's variable output level to match the sound level from the tuner.)

With what I know now i'd not have bothered with a CD player at all and probably not chosen a Naim amp (although their amp/tuner did sound great together).

So, take at least as much care to match the source(s) to the Nait 5i as the speakers.

I made too many assumptions about the CD5i and Nait5i being (literally) 'made for each other'.

 

[plastic penguin]

In my house the Nait 5i-2 and NAT05 made two halves of an excellent FM radio only system. (Two years with these components using Naim's own nSAT bookshelf speakers mostly and a short period with MS20i Pearl Editions.)

The 'matching' Naim CD5i-2 player was nothing of the sort (I used to have to turn the amp right down to tame it). So it got used less and less over about a year before being boxed up and stored away in favour of using a Beresford TC-7520 DAC fed by my laptop instead. (I was able to adjust the DAC's variable output level to match the sound level from the tuner.)

With what I know now i'd not have bothered with a CD player at all and probably not chosen a Naim amp (although their amp/tuner did sound great together).

So, take at least as much care to match the source(s) to the Nait 5i as the speakers.

I made too many assumptions about the CD5i and Nait5i being (literally) 'made for each other'.

I've only ever heard the 5i and CD5i together in a showroom, so I can't really comment on the combo at home. However, I don't find my CD5i-2 OTT in my system.

On the flipside, I've had a real love/hate relationship with the Nait 5i and Italic versions: Great with PMC 'i' series, lousey with MA Silvers. It seems any loose or wayward top end exhibited by a speaker, the Naits wills push it beyond a comfortable level.

 

[NMANo1]

Would that be a italic model then?looking forward to see how you get on with it then.good choice and be prepared for the bite of the upgrade bug.lol.

Cheers for that Mark.

My bossier half has put her cloven hoof down & decreed that after getting the speakers & amp over the last 3 months my upgradeitis has been brought to a halt (for the moment anyway).

 

[plastic penguin]

Penguin: You have been the most persistent in advising me away from the Naim route as you suggest there will be a clash between the Ruark speakers & the amp. Bright v Bright. While I do understand the logic in this I don't think the Ruark speakers are too bright & apparently the newer Naim amps are lesser so than they used to be. I appreciate the advice & effort in your posts so I'm sorry to disappoint you but I am now excitedly awaiting delivery of my newly purchased 3yr old Nait 5i.

As Homer once said (from the Illiad, I think ).. Woohoo !

Thanks to all who posted, I appreciate it.

*For anyone interested I will post how 'we all' get on in a few weeks.

Cheers

That's fine. Don't have any issues. In the right set-up Naim is as good as any price compatible amp.

However, you did ask for advice and views and I gave you mine, based on that fact I've heard Naim amps countless times (5i, i and XS versions) with different speakers - and I own the CD5i-2.

Good luck with it and I'll be interested to hear how it sounds with the Ruarks.

 

[DIB]

Personally I would skip the notion of a Naim with either Ruark and MA speakers. Instead, I would buy a Creek Evo2. Had this on home dem and it'll knock spots off a 5i. Very punchy yet more adaptable with different speakers. Cracking amp. One of the better looking amps too.

+1

However not at that price, though it's unlikely to get any bids anyway. There was a similar mint one went last weekend on Ebay for £180! ( ... however I can't recall whether it was collection only which can depress the price a bit) .

.

 

[plastic penguin]

Personally I would skip the notion of a Naim with either Ruark and MA speakers. Instead, I would buy a Creek Evo2. Had this on home dem and it'll knock spots off a 5i. Very punchy yet more adaptable with different speakers. Cracking amp. One of the better looking amps too.

+1

However not at that price, though it's unlikely to get any bids anyway. There was a similar mint one went last weekend on Ebay for £180! ( ... however I can't recall whether it was collection only which can depress the price a bit) .

.

On the surface, I agree, this one seems too expensive. However, given the Evo2 are becoming more rare, this tends to influence the price. And the one I flagged has the phono stage, which from memory was between £100-150 on top of the retail price. Or if you was to go for a good quality outboard phono stage, you'd be looking in the region of £200.

If it wasn't for the Leema I'd certainly make contact with the seller.

 

[NMANo1]

Plastic Penguin/Drummerman/MarkRS/Chebby etc.

Hi guys, if anybody is still interested...

Well I've been living with the Nait5i-2 for a few months now & I love it. So rhythmic, natural sounding & has oodles of tight bass yet still handles acoustic music with the right amount of delicacy. Importantly for my smallish house, it's great at low volumes too.

While the amp improvement definitely helped the Ruarks bass which was a bit less defined with my old amps, I would have to say that ( pat yourselves on the back boys ! ) the speakers top end remained ( maybe very slightly increased ). Definitely a bit on the bright side with certain recordings. Still not enough to reject the speakers outright but increasingly annoying.

Although I do really like/rate the Tallisman 2's & will be keeping them, I couldn't resist checking out what the local moneypit had to offer. I auditioned a pair of ex-dem Neat Motive 2 Floorstanders. After a listening session & a few coffees, I couldn't resist ( check out my thread...Neat Motive 2 ) & now have a sound I'm very, very happy with. Nothing too bright with a surprising amount of tight clean bass. At last ! Now I'm listening to my music again & not the system for the first time in a while. Happy days.

Hopefully that's the end of my searching & box swapping for a while. My bank manager/partner has kept her patience but still cannot get her head around this obsession & expense for....... "a stereo".

As usual, thanks for the all the advice & info guys.

 

[rainsoothe]

sweet. Enjoy

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

very good to hear youv'e got there in the end ..Naim and Neat are meant to be very good together.ps don't ever think thats the end of the box swapping.lol.

 

[NMANo1]

Thanks for that Mark. Yes, I must admit I am loving the Naim/Neat combo.

Just to see how good it is, I swapped my LP12 for an early 90's Rega 3 with a Goldring 1006 mm I had boxed up in the attic. Taking into account that I usually listen to LP12/Ittok/Lingo/OC9mrk2/Dino which is a helluva more expensive setup, I was really impressed with it. Although the cart was still sounding pretty good it became clear the stylus was on its last legs. Luckily I had a spare Goldring Eroica mc with about 400hrs on it in the drawer. 20 mins later I put on Peter Gabriel's LP 'So' ( a standard test album for me ) & the soundstage just opened up, mids/top end lost any harshness & bass increased as well as tightened up. The Regas sound through the new amp & speakers really impressed me & my Mrs who thought it was nearly as good as the Linn & far more prettier !? She's wrong but it does sound good especially through my new additions.

P.S. Mark, I noticed your using the Arcam DAC. Did you own the DAC before you bought the Nait CD ? Since I've been enjoying the amp so much I've been playing with the idea of getting the same CDP. Does the Nait CD need a DAC ?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Yes I owned the arcam ir dac before the cd5i.It was meant to be an upgrade from my then arcam cd82,but it wasn't much of an improvement,although now it has a good few hours on it now I swear it's improved.But the 5i is a stand alone player and it doesn't need any psu's or dac's.you actually can't hook up a dac to it as it has no digital output,also it is unable to accept the flatcap psu but it's a fine player and you need to move up to the cd5xs if you want the digital output connections and flatcap psu connection.....but you'd think at the price they sell for it shouldn't be needing a outboard dac.

 

[lpv]

Yes I owned the arcam ir dac before the cd5i.It was meant to be an upgrade from my then arcam cd82,but it wasn't much of an improvement,although now it has a good few hours on it now I swear it's improved.But the 5i is a stand alone player and it doesn't need any psu's or dac's.you actually can't hook up a dac to it as it has no digital output,also it is unable to accept the flatcap psu but it's a fine player and you need to move up to the cd5xs if you want the digital output connections and flatcap psu connection.....but you'd think at the price they sell for it shouldn't be needing a outboard dac.

wolfson wm8706 dac chip used in this cd player cost $5 retail.. naim buy in large quantities so they pay maybe $2... not pricey really.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

All dac chips only cost a few quid....for all the manufacturers,it's not just naim that are at it.At least there build quality is decent.oh and they know how to put together some good kit and make it sound rather good,although not to everyone's ear.