my system

[nopiano]

Does anyone have any lead times of when hegel will be releasing their new flagship rost stereo integrated soundengine amplifier?

Thanks

Hi theelitigator

I believe Hegel's new Rost amp/DAC/Streamer is due to be available in the UK in October/November.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are they brining out a 'last chance' CD player too, or am I getting confused?

Hi nopiano

Yes, Hegel will soon be releasing their new The Mohican CD player. If you're interested then some pictures, background and design info was on The Mohican was added to our FB page last Wednesday.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks, Rick, that must have been where I saw it! Great name, I thought.

 

[Andrewjvt]

We are arranging a very interesting showdown between my hegel h360/atc and Avi dm10

No exact date has been set yet.

Will keep you all posted..

 

[Romulus]

The Hegel H360 appears from third party information to be a great performer from analogue connections and using independent DACs. But its own DAC within the amp does not seem to get a clean bill of health (eg described by one user 'clean but thin sounding'). Will the above show down compare the sonic befits of the DACS and perhaps the quality of USB connections in the respective amps (that is if AVI contains a DAC?)

 

[Frank Harvey]

AVI claim there is virtualy zero difference between DACs.

 

[davedotco]

AVI claim there is virtualy zero difference between DACs.

Unless the manufacturer has deliberately 'voiced' his product to sound different.

The digital to analogue conversion itself is effectively transparent, there is some mileage to be had by implementing superior filters but most of the difference will be in 'tweaked' analogue output stages.

Output level is important too, it is no coincidence that some of the more highly regarded dacs are those with the highest output.

 

[theelitigator]

Hi Rick

Thanks for the update will the amp come in various colours and which would you recommend thanks

 

[Romulus]

The Hegel H360 appears from third party information to be a great performer from analogue connections and using independent DACs. But its own DAC within the amp does not seem to get a clean bill of health (eg described by one user 'clean but thin sounding'). Will the above show down compare the sonic befits of the DACS and perhaps the quality of USB connections in the respective amps (that is if AVI contains a DAC?)

Where did you read that please share

From Pink Fish Media forum. Title of the thread is 'Hegel H160 and Supernait2' but it also covers the Hegel H360 & Dac. I found the thread very interesting because I am interested exactly in both the above mention amps. One of the contributors uses both amps and has described his thoughts quite succinctly. The discussion on this particular thread is in regard to the diffirent musical/sonic engagements by both amps and to the qaulity of DACs compared with Naim Dac V1 and other Dacs. In regard to the Dac within Hegel H360 please refer to post 18.

I look forward to your report of the show down.

 

[chebby]

From Pink Fish Media forum. Title of the thread is 'Hegel H160 and Supernait2'

.... please refer to post 18.

Let's not make it hard work ...

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=188375&highlight=h160&page=2

 

[davedotco]

AVI claim there is virtualy zero difference between DACs.

Unless the manufacturer has deliberately 'voiced' his product to sound different.

The digital to analogue conversion itself is effectively transparent, there is some mileage to be had by implementing superior filters but most of the difference will be in 'tweaked' analogue output stages.

Output level is important too, it is no coincidence that some of the more highly regarded dacs are those with the highest output.

Would love An independant unbiased group test line level matched Between all the main dacs in low to high prices v each other.

The tests with measurements etc

Would be nice to see how they all rank sound for price v one another

In the hi-fi world.

Rather like the blind testing of cables, it goes against everything that the hi-fi industry stands for.

There are a number of online tests that shows little difference between basic dacs such as the O-Dac and top of the line Dacs from the likes of Benchmark though these tend to avoid the more extravagantly voiced 'audiophile' dacs.

On a personal note, I was able to compare an AEX with a M-Dac, without level matching the M-Dac was hugely superior, even when trying to match levels by ear.

Using a multimeter to measure the voltage at the speaker terminals the levels were matched very carefully, the differences all but disapeared, very, very difficult to pick.

The 'excuse' provided by the dealer was that using the M-Dac in pre-amp mode, used to match it's output level to the approx 1 volt of the AEX, compromised the performance of the M-Dac. Make of that what you will.

 

[lpv]

surely the salesman was aware of AEX 2 volts output...

 

[chebby]

There are a number of online tests that shows little difference between basic dacs such as the O-Dac and top of the line Dacs from the likes of Benchmark though these tend to avoid the more extravagantly voiced 'audiophile' dacs.

On a personal note, I was able to compare an AEX with a M-Dac, without level matching the M-Dac was hugely superior, even when trying to match levels by ear.

Using a multimeter to measure the voltage at the speaker terminals the levels were matched very carefully, the differences all but disapeared, very, very difficult to pick.

The 'excuse' provided by the dealer was that using the M-Dac in pre-amp mode, used to match it's output level to the approx 1 volt of the AEX, compromised the performance of the M-Dac. Make of that what you will.

LOL!

I've had a similar experience whereby to prevent accidental 'blasts' of high volume when switching between my old NAT05 tuner and content played through a Beresford DAC, I had to use the DAC's variable output RCAs and turn it down - permanently - until it was about the same level as the tuner.

This actually improved it to the point where I finally decided to 'retire' the CD5i that i'd been using. (My last CD player.)

I can't give accurate figures because I did it by ear (not multimeter) and initially only did it to prevent 'suprises' when switching sources and forgetting to adjust the volume first.

 

[Romulus]

The Hegel H360 appears from third party information to be a great performer from analogue connections and using independent DACs. But its own DAC within the amp does not seem to get a clean bill of health (eg described by one user 'clean but thin sounding'). Will the above show down compare the sonic befits of the DACS and perhaps the quality of USB connections in the respective amps (that is if AVI contains a DAC?)

Where did you read that please share

From Pink Fish Media forum. Title of the thread is 'Hegel H160 and Supernait2' but it also covers the Hegel H360 & Dac. I found the thread very interesting because I am interested exactly in both the above mention amps. One of the contributors uses both amps and has described his thoughts quite succinctly. The discussion on this particular thread is in regard to the diffirent musical/sonic engagements by both amps and to the qaulity of DACs compared with Naim Dac V1 and other Dacs. In regard to the Dac within Hegel H360 please refer to post 18.

I look forward to your report of the show down.

Ok thanks will have a look But all other reviews/measurements etc read good in fact.

Take it from me the dacs are great.

Where do you live?

Regards the show down: the purpose is not to discredit one make/brand over another but to test the performance/price between passive and active at a certain price point and also if im going to get avi as fronts instead if building k100s.

I love my hegel and atc speakers.

I live in Devon. I knew you had the Hegel but I thought you were considering the ATC SCM 40 speakers. If you have them, what is it that is lacking in your system? I just read an exciting review on the ATC SCM19A in HIFI Pig, but the active route seems very expensive in order to complete any system..?

 

[davedotco]

surely the salesman was aware of AEX 2 volts output...

The output of the AEX is about 1 volt, the retailer did not 'consider the AEX to be hi-fi'.

This was several years ago and the setup was as follows, Flac files on a Macbook, over Airplay to a Mk 2 'plug in' AEX, then either via Toslink to the M-Dac then analogue to amplifier or analogue direct to the amplifier. There was no direct switching, the optical and analogue cable into the AEX were switched by hand with the amp muted.

With the M-Dac in 'dac mode', the output was clearly much higher than the AEX, so the M-Dac was switched to 'pre-amp mode' and the output turned down. A test tone (1kHz sine wave) was played by the Mac and the voltage, in millivolts, measured at the speaker terminals using my old Fluke digital multimeter, the output of the M-Dac was adjusted to be the same as the AEX.

The switching was done blind, informally so, but I was never sure which combination I was listening to, given the delay, about 5 or 6 seconds maybe, It was virtually impossible to tell which was which.

The test had several flaws, the use of Airplay with it's ALAC compression, the time taken to perform the switching, the poor jitter performance of the AEX etc, but the retailers only comment was that the M-Dac sounded better in 'Dac mode' rather than 'pre-amp mode'.

 

[lpv]

surely the salesman was aware of AEX 2 volts output...

The output of the AEX is about 1 volt, the retailer did not 'consider the AEX to be hi-fi'.

interesting:

[size="+2"]AEX Outputs[/size][/b]

Stereo 3.5mm analog at 2 V RMS, Mini-TOSLINK optical digital SPDIF.

M-DAC Output

rca 2.25V RMS

 

[davedotco]

surely the salesman was aware of AEX 2 volts output...

The output of the AEX is about 1 volt, the retailer did not 'consider the AEX to be hi-fi'.

interesting:

AEX Outputs

Stereo 3.5mm analog at 2 V RMS, Mini-TOSLINK optical digital SPDIF.

M-DAC Output

rca 2.25V RMS

Documentation for my fairly early 2009 Mk2 'plug in' AEX stated the ouput as 1 volt, this was the device used in the test.

The difference in level with the M-dac was significant, sadly I did not try and get a measure of the difference. That said I find the quoted output of dacs/cd players to be unreliable, manufacturers use the highest output they can get away to gain an advantage in A/B tests.

There is a peculiar effect that occurs in these circumstances. I had a CD player that had variable output, in this case internal jumpers could be used to reduce the output level in steps, ie 2.2 volts. 1.1 volts, 550 mvolts and 275 mvolts.

The best match with my other sources was with the output at 550 mvolts, but I would swear that it sounded better at 2.2 volts, even though I adjusted the volume on the amplifier to compensate.

I spoke to the manufacturers who insisted that the two outputs measured and auditioned as identical, this was not BS, I know that listening tests were carried out regularly as I knew the company quite well.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Does anyone have any lead times of when hegel will be releasing their new flagship rost stereo integrated soundengine amplifier?

Thanks

Hi theelitigator

I believe Hegel's new Rost amp/DAC/Streamer is due to be available in the UK in October/November.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are they brining out a 'last chance' CD player too, or am I getting confused?

Hi nopiano

Yes, Hegel will soon be releasing their new The Mohican CD player. If you're interested then some pictures, background and design info was on The Mohican was added to our FB page last Wednesday.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks, Rick, that must have been where I saw it! Great name, I thought.

Hi nopiano

You're welcome and yes The Mohican is a great name.

I must also watch The Last Of The Mohicans again. A great film.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[tonky]

Last of the Mohicans - superb movie - good shout Rick

tonky

 

[Frank Harvey]

Im sure you can even find a positive review of batman v superman

Steady on Andrew...

 

[spiny norman]

Im sure you can even find a positive review of batman v superman

Steady on Andrew...

Perhaps 'Not quite as bad as Suicide Squad'?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Last of the Mohicans - superb movie - good shout Rick

tonky

Hi tonky

You're welcome.

Another great movie from that time is the uncut version of Dances With Wolves which also has an excellent soundtrack.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[nopiano]

Does anyone have any lead times of when hegel will be releasing their new flagship rost stereo integrated soundengine amplifier?

Thanks

Hi theelitigator

I believe Hegel's new Rost amp/DAC/Streamer is due to be available in the UK in October/November.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are they brining out a 'last chance' CD player too, or am I getting confused?

Hi nopiano

Yes, Hegel will soon be releasing their new The Mohican CD player. If you're interested then some pictures, background and design info was on The Mohican was added to our FB page last Wednesday.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks, Rick, that must have been where I saw it! Great name, I thought.

Hi nopiano

You're welcome and yes The Mohican is a great name.

I must also watch The Last Of The Mohicans again. A great film.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I assumed it wasn't a coincidence!,

 

[Infiniteloop]

surely the salesman was aware of AEX 2 volts output...

The output of the AEX is about 1 volt, the retailer did not 'consider the AEX to be hi-fi'.

This was several years ago and the setup was as follows, Flac files on a Macbook, over Airplay to a Mk 2 'plug in' AEX, then either via Toslink to the M-Dac then analogue to amplifier or analogue direct to the amplifier. There was no direct switching, the optical and analogue cable into the AEX were switched by hand with the amp muted.

With the M-Dac in 'dac mode', the output was clearly much higher than the AEX, so the M-Dac was switched to 'pre-amp mode' and the output turned down. A test tone (1kHz sine wave) was played by the Mac and the voltage, in millivolts, measured at the speaker terminals using my old Fluke digital multimeter, the output of the M-Dac was adjusted to be the same as the AEX.

The switching was done blind, informally so, but I was never sure which combination I was listening to, given the delay, about 5 or 6 seconds maybe, It was virtually impossible to tell which was which.

The test had several flaws, the use of Airplay with it's ALAC compression, the time taken to perform the switching, the poor jitter performance of the AEX etc, but the retailers only comment was that the M-Dac sounded better in 'Dac mode' rather than 'pre-amp mode'.

ALAC is lossless, so couldn't have had an effect.

 

[Romulus]

The Hegel H360 appears from third party information to be a great performer from analogue connections and using independent DACs. But its own DAC within the amp does not seem to get a clean bill of health (eg described by one user 'clean but thin sounding'). Will the above show down compare the sonic befits of the DACS and perhaps the quality of USB connections in the respective amps (that is if AVI contains a DAC?)

Where did you read that please share

From Pink Fish Media forum. Title of the thread is 'Hegel H160 and Supernait2' but it also covers the Hegel H360 & Dac. I found the thread very interesting because I am interested exactly in both the above mention amps. One of the contributors uses both amps and has described his thoughts quite succinctly. The discussion on this particular thread is in regard to the diffirent musical/sonic engagements by both amps and to the qaulity of DACs compared with Naim Dac V1 and other Dacs. In regard to the Dac within Hegel H360 please refer to post 18.

I look forward to your report of the show down.

Ive not had time to read it all or 18 yet but the first few posts made me cringe.

When people say the naim had more prat than the hegel they may have fallen for the advert.

Have you listened yourself yet to these amps?

Also dont worry about the dac its very good and does its job well.

If your every up my way pop in for a listen. If you are looking at buying one or the other then try arrange a home demo of the 2 different amps and see which one you like the best.

Dont be put off by what you read on forums. There will always be positive and negitive.

Im sure you can even find a positive review of batman v superman

Well put! Beauty is in the eye of beholder and its all about one's personal taste.. I used to own a Naim system (Nac 92, Nap 180, CDX and Epos speakers) so I quite familiar as to the 'Naim Sound' and the dreaded 'PRAT'. I liked the Naim Sound in certain songs and maybe genres but I felt there was something missing in some Classical pieces and other musical pieces. Naim is very good at highlighting the interplay between the musicians, something like Santana songs was an absolute thrill to hear, like being on a roller coaster ride - enthralling experience! But then I put on a large classical orchestral work, I missed any depth in in soundstage, more texture from instruments would of been nice. When I started reading about Hegel 'sound' I wonder if it can combine all worlds of sonic delights into one sound. I am yet to hear one and if I am up in your neck of woods (near Derby?) I would like to take up your kind offer.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

When I started reading about Hegel 'sound' I wonder if it can combine all worlds of sonic delights into one sound.

Hi Romulus

If its helps then please also take a look at a two year old Hegel (9.50) YouTube video where from 8.03 Anders Ertzeid gives an explaination of Hegel's sound.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Does anyone have any lead times of when hegel will be releasing their new flagship rost stereo integrated soundengine amplifier?

Thanks

Hi theelitigator

I believe Hegel's new Rost amp/DAC/Streamer is due to be available in the UK in October/November.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are they brining out a 'last chance' CD player too, or am I getting confused?

Hi nopiano

Yes, Hegel will soon be releasing their new The Mohican CD player. If you're interested then some pictures, background and design info was on The Mohican was added to our FB page last Wednesday.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks, Rick, that must have been where I saw it! Great name, I thought.

Hi nopiano

You're welcome and yes The Mohican is a great name.

I must also watch The Last Of The Mohicans again. A great film.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I assumed it wasn't a coincidence!,

Hi nopiano

Nope.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft