bigblue235 said:
I made a similar observation a while back:
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/off-topic-and-miscellaneous/ring-any-bells
I made a similar observation a while back:
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/off-topic-and-miscellaneous/ring-any-bells
Yes of course, JD, i was quoting Ash when i spoke of sales figures, and yes there was irony in the following post, but as I said I was responding to David, who seems "very interested", I don't know why that is the case, I'm sure people will form their own opinions on that.John Duncan said:
Look, I'm not sure how this past animosity between certain forums and people on them started (seems very chicken and egg to me), and yes, I can see how things that were written there would wind people up here and vice versa, but as I understand it, as things are now, I don't think anyone on either forum want's to be bad mouthing or arguing etc, least that's how I see it, including me, I enjoy the banter and company on both forums to be honest
John Duncan
Well-known member
Ah, I didn't notice that thread at the time, Cno. Probably just as well. I'd likely still be typing my reply to it now
It is a bit like whole active thing though, you get people who say "Oh, I'll only use a driver with a Fuikura shaft". As good as those are, they're only one part. A club is the sum of its parts, much like a speaker. Everything has to be factored in. I avoid certain golf manufacturers as well. I'm weird like that
It is a bit like whole active thing though, you get people who say "Oh, I'll only use a driver with a Fuikura shaft". As good as those are, they're only one part. A club is the sum of its parts, much like a speaker. Everything has to be factored in. I avoid certain golf manufacturers as well. I'm weird like that
John Duncan
Well-known member
6th.replicant
Well-known member
Oh, for gawd's sake! Note the first line of the thread's OP:
Some people like what they hear when they listen to AVIs, some people do not.
Who gives a damn whether they're steam-powered, passive, active or re-active; sell by the container-load or rickshaw-load; and how, and by whom, they are sold?
File under "petty, tedious and self-rightous" :hand:
richardw42 said:
Some people like what they hear when they listen to AVIs, some people do not.
Who gives a damn whether they're steam-powered, passive, active or re-active; sell by the container-load or rickshaw-load; and how, and by whom, they are sold?
File under "petty, tedious and self-rightous" :hand:
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
6th.replicant said:
The problem is it will never be that simple. Rather than concentrate on how good the speakers might be and using that to fend off the multitudes of competition out there, 'fans' seem to concentrate on the active aspect and ram it home, presumably with the hope of making all passive competition irrelevant with one easy swipe. I applaud their enthusiasm and loyalty, but it all just seems a bit like Project Mayhem (Fight Club reference, for those that don't know) - everyone has their role to play.
6th.replicant said:
Quite a few people, clearly. Anyway, it's better than Deal or No Deal with Katie Price.
I have absolutely no doubt that for many people, the ADM40s will be excellent. They certainly look it - nice build, lovely wood finish and all. For £3000 I think they're fairly priced.
There may indeed be many technical advantages to actives, but that doesn't automatically mean that their passive counterparts will all instantly sound terrible. I think that's one of the issues I have with the AVI Forum or at least some elements of it anyway.
Equally, I find the obsessing over cables (and the like) and their inflated importance on here as bad.
In the end, you take what you will from both sites and others like it. And then go and listen to some kit and make your own mind up no matter what anyone else says. And if that means you like a pair of passive speakers in preference to actives by anyone never mind AVI, so be it. The choice is right because it's the right one for you.
There may indeed be many technical advantages to actives, but that doesn't automatically mean that their passive counterparts will all instantly sound terrible. I think that's one of the issues I have with the AVI Forum or at least some elements of it anyway.
Equally, I find the obsessing over cables (and the like) and their inflated importance on here as bad.
In the end, you take what you will from both sites and others like it. And then go and listen to some kit and make your own mind up no matter what anyone else says. And if that means you like a pair of passive speakers in preference to actives by anyone never mind AVI, so be it. The choice is right because it's the right one for you.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Overdose said:
Sorry, sometimes I miss the actual questions in the white noise (for which I am equally to blame, admittedly).
To be clear, the DB1-blahs were what I compared the 9.1s to, and which I marginally preferred, albeit at twice the price. I have the passive version, not that one, which is powered passive.
I haven't heard the TB1, though I believe they're a Sound on Sound reference. I suspect they're powered as well but can't be sure; a quick google should clarify.
ooh.. said:
well Max. I believe honesty of manufacturer's claims are an issue here. like those thousands of happy customers. technically 3000 are thousands but that's not what a common person has in mind when you tell them about thousands of happy customers. marketing hyperbole no1. wouldn't you agree?
another good example could be power rating for the 9s woofer amp. one guy tested voltage rails in AVI's woofer amp and got an RMS result of 36V long term. the power rating on AVI's web site quotes 250W. this is 36^2/ 250 = 5.1 Ohms. this is in fact DC resistance value for the woofer. everything looks OK so far, doesn't it? but firstly you should divide this rating by 2 for RMS rating as a sinewave has crest factor of 3 so you need a 3dB headroom. 3dB louder needs 2 times the power.
and now secondly, DC resistance of a dynamic/ moving coil driver has nothing to do with frequency dependant impedance. which in case of 9s woofer is definite 8 Ohms (the guy measured it too and frequency dependant impedance varies from above 6 Ohms to above 8Ohms. and for the bigger part stays around 8 Ohms). what does it tells us? the amp simply will not be able to put out 250W into that driver's load. what you could more reasonably expect is 36^2/ 8= 162W peak. so RMS rating for 8 Ohm load is 81W. and if you factor in THD, which naturally rises near output limits, you should lower this rating even slightly more. that guy reservedly suggested 75W rating to be in order.
so, what do we have here? from a 250W amp you end up with a 75W amp. and I bet you didn't even know that you had something like Marantz PM 7004 on board, when you thought you had a Krell.
technically you may argue that the manufacturer wasn't wrong to quote 250W for the woofer amp but this is huuugely misleading because the amp will never be able to output this power into this driver.
so this is all about. if you knew more about technical meanders of speaker amp interaction you could be able to filter out marketing hyperbole. I'm not saying I know it all. but I know enough to at least be aware to take with a decent grain of salt everything this Ash is spatting. and you, unfortunately, just repeat after him. (please don't take this remark as an attack. instead think twice if you're going to quote Ash in the future)
steve_1979
Well-known member
John Duncan said:ooh.. said:Well if it's any consolation, I doJohn Duncan said:
Easy, tiger.
Could this be the start of something beautiful?
Calling Drummerman...
Messiah
Well-known member
None of the above means anything to me, Oldric, as I don't understand any of it. Perhaps you should post it on AVI Forum? I trust Ash and Martin Grinrod's figures, Oldric, they've been queried before by people like yourself on there (was that you??) and satisfactorily explained as far as i can see. Don't take cheap shots on here, go there and do it.oldric_naubhoff said:
Overdose
Well-known member
John Duncan said:
OK, thanks. The SOS review states that they are 'activated', which seems to be PMC for powered with passive crossover, no bad thing in itself.
Its these or the Event Opals so far though, unless some very well price used ATC actives come across the radar.
(This by the way, is the active speaker equivalence of upgraditis. It does exist.
)ooh.. said:
no, it wasn't me. I read it in one of andyg's long threads. very interesting stuff and this power rating popped up as a by-topic.
I don't want to prove anything on HDD forum. what purpose would it serve. besides I'd have to have AVI speakers and measuring equipment to prove anything. and I don't have neither.
daveh75
Well-known member
Overdose said:(This by the way, is the active speaker equivalence of upgraditis. It does exist.
Was it ever in any doubt?
Even AVI cant cure it, it seems
Well don't you think it a little unfair to be making disparaging statements on here, without proof? Go there and do it, you'll meet your technical match and then some. Trust me.oldric_naubhoff said:
atticus
Well-known member
Messiah said:
The problem faced by AVI (much like Audio Note and several other brands) is that they started (and continue to) hate on just about everything else. Rather than just introducing a high quality product at a reasonable price, they had to diss all the passive designs around, diss the review mags, diss the persons who buy such passive designs and read those mags, etc...
If you want the hating to stop, then you need to go the AVI forums and convince Ash, etc to tone it down. Otherwise AVI will always be met negatively.
BenLaw
Well-known member
ooh.. said:
So, only positive things should be posted on WHF about AVI? I don't understand this logic.
ooh.. said:
So, you're allowed to make dozens of gushingly positive posts, based purely on repeating their marketing and your subjective opinion, but any negative statements have to be put before the board of AVI? Jesus Wept.
But, actually, you might be onto something. Maybe all these posts should be over there. Deal?
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