when playing blu ray films on my playstation panning shots or fast action is not smooth,is this a 24fps problem or not? is my tv not 24fps or is it the playstation 3? my tv is the sony kdl40w2000 thanks
my blu ray fast panning pictures are not smooth
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I'm sure you can change the output on the ps3 so it sends the picture at 50-60hz - its not 24fps but it should cure the problem.
ok thanks,will check that as its quite off putting when watching blu ray films.upscaled dvds look so much better
60Hz output won't cure the problem because they player has to use pulldown to go from 23.976fps to 59.94fps. You'll still get judder in much the same way NTSC judders.
Mentasm - If your tv doesn't accept 24fps native, can you opt for the player (or the LCD) to convert the 24fps to 25fps i.e 50hz? Would this reduce motion judder?
I thought broadly, UK LCDs accept 50hz and USA LCDs accept 60hz, am I correct or do UK LCDs accept 50 & 60hz signals?
I thought broadly, UK LCDs accept 50hz and USA LCDs accept 60hz, am I correct or do UK LCDs accept 50 & 60hz signals?
professorhat
Well-known member
On PS3, under Video Settings, then BD 1080p 24Hz Output (HDMI) - set this to off and see if it improves.
UK LCDs accept 50Hz because that's what PAL runs at, but they also have
to support 60Hz because films are encoded at 24Hz and converted to
60Hz via pulldown. Currently, there are no players that can output at
25Hz. It wouldn't work well anyway, because the audio would be out of
sync so it would have to be corrected on the fly. There's really no way
to eliminate motion judder entirely because 24fps is a low framerate to
begin with (so it looks quite 'choppy' on pans), but TVs with 24Hz modes
are smoother than those without because the judder is at least regular
as opposed to the irregular 2-3 sequence of 60Hz using pulldown.
I would have thought that if you TV didn't accept 24Hz at all you'd be seeing a blank screen. It's possible it accepts 24Hz but converts it to 60Hz internally via pulldown. if that's the case, you won;t see much difference regardless of which component is doing the conversion (player or TV), depending ont he quality of both of course.
to support 60Hz because films are encoded at 24Hz and converted to
60Hz via pulldown. Currently, there are no players that can output at
25Hz. It wouldn't work well anyway, because the audio would be out of
sync so it would have to be corrected on the fly. There's really no way
to eliminate motion judder entirely because 24fps is a low framerate to
begin with (so it looks quite 'choppy' on pans), but TVs with 24Hz modes
are smoother than those without because the judder is at least regular
as opposed to the irregular 2-3 sequence of 60Hz using pulldown.
I would have thought that if you TV didn't accept 24Hz at all you'd be seeing a blank screen. It's possible it accepts 24Hz but converts it to 60Hz internally via pulldown. if that's the case, you won;t see much difference regardless of which component is doing the conversion (player or TV), depending ont he quality of both of course.
My 20w4000 didnt except it, im guessing the tv is getting a pal signal from the ps3! with the ps3 doing 3:2 pulldown youll still get a little judder on pans there bno a lot you can do about it, Im not sure how well the higher end players eg denon handle 3:2???
Try changing the 24fps option to off from it's default of auto in the menu on the PS3 to see if that cures it.
It can't be converting to 50Hz for the reasons I mentioned above: the audio wouldn't be in sync with the video.
so why does normal dvds pan better with no judder etc and about the same picture quality, i thought blu ray was the new big thing, now im not so sure, thanks for all the replys so far.
wayne117:so why does normal dvds pan better with no judder etc and about the same picture quality, i thought blu ray was the new big thing, now im not so sure, thanks for all the replys so far.
The motion is a common complaint with BluRay.
The motion is a common complaint with BluRay.
Mentasm:
films are encoded at 24Hz and converted to 60Hz via pulldown. Currently, there are no players that can output at 25Hz.
I presume you mean blu ray discs only, I am led to believe that film on dvds are 25fps. Therefore I presume all players output 50hz/25fps for dvd?
films are encoded at 24Hz and converted to 60Hz via pulldown. Currently, there are no players that can output at 25Hz.
I presume you mean blu ray discs only, I am led to believe that film on dvds are 25fps. Therefore I presume all players output 50hz/25fps for dvd?
I also get poor motion from blu ray, I have tried PS3, Samsung 5900 (VERY, VERY POOR!!!), and Panasonic DMP-BDT310 , the BDT310 being the best. But DVD plays soooo much smoother than blu ray, to the point I have sold my blu ray films. The upscaled DVD images are stunning, but then I view from just over 4 meters away so can afford a little noise with out noticing, I have never seen any tho as I walk past the set to answer the door, or stand closer to play guitar hero (sorry). I use a Onkio 608 amp and pass images through unmolested, but it still alters images from 24 bit to 30 bit, not sure how to stop it doing that either!
The only blu ray films I now watch are Avatar, because oddly it suffers none of the motion problems other films display yet has stunning colour and depth, and a few 3D titles, lete be honest the whole 3D thing is a pure gimic and I for one dont expect a lot from the experience. Its nice as a novalty now and then with a few mates around and a take away.
Shame it has come to this, the audio on blu ray disks is a noticable improvement over DVD, but the poor motion drives me crazy.
Also, I have some very costly HDMI leads that a friend gave me (he is an AV engineer and recomended them) but I for one can't say they fair any better than the £2.50 eBay ones, the eBay ones being 0.3 and 0.4 meters making the install behind my AV rack VERY neat, and must reduce induced signal noise as there is less conductor length crossing the magnetic path of other conductors i.e. power cables (I also trim power leads short to keep the install neat and reduce the magnetic flux produced by current carrying conductors). I cant proove this helps, I havent even noticed a difference, but the theory is solid enough.
The only blu ray films I now watch are Avatar, because oddly it suffers none of the motion problems other films display yet has stunning colour and depth, and a few 3D titles, lete be honest the whole 3D thing is a pure gimic and I for one dont expect a lot from the experience. Its nice as a novalty now and then with a few mates around and a take away.
Shame it has come to this, the audio on blu ray disks is a noticable improvement over DVD, but the poor motion drives me crazy.
Also, I have some very costly HDMI leads that a friend gave me (he is an AV engineer and recomended them) but I for one can't say they fair any better than the £2.50 eBay ones, the eBay ones being 0.3 and 0.4 meters making the install behind my AV rack VERY neat, and must reduce induced signal noise as there is less conductor length crossing the magnetic path of other conductors i.e. power cables (I also trim power leads short to keep the install neat and reduce the magnetic flux produced by current carrying conductors). I cant proove this helps, I havent even noticed a difference, but the theory is solid enough.
My main TV was a W2000, this is now in the bedroom. It definitely will not accept 24fps. I have a Panasonic Bluray player and when connected to the W2000 it refused to output at 24fps. The default mode is 25fps and panning effects were quite OK.
I now have a new TV for the lounge which is 24Fps and the panning from Bluray is fine, however if I force it into 24Fps mode for DVD, it is awful.
Just do as others have suggested, turn of the 24Fps on the Playstation.
I now have a new TV for the lounge which is 24Fps and the panning from Bluray is fine, however if I force it into 24Fps mode for DVD, it is awful.
Just do as others have suggested, turn of the 24Fps on the Playstation.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
The_Lhc said:
Ive got some dvds that are recorded in 24Hz - none of which are from the uk I might add
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