Moving to a DAC

[matthewpiano]

My next move (apart from buying a headphone amp, which is discussed in the relevant forum), is going to be to invest in a standalone DAC. The intention will be for this to be connected to my existing CD player, my Squeezebox 3, and my PC in the short term. In the longer term I will be thinking of a replacement for the Squeezebox and/or the CD player.

Given that I like a natural sound with the ability to reproduce instrumental timbres convincingly, but also with a good dynamic range, what should I be looking at to work with my Creek amp?

I'm interested in the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC, which seems to be excellent value for money, but I've also read mention of a new DAC from Audiolab, although I can't find any details about it. I'm presuming that this would simply be the DAC part of the 8200CD. Finally, there is the Rega DAC which seems to be building a strong reputation for its performance. If I go for the MF M1 DAC I will more than likely mate it with an M1 CDT or M1 CLiC in the future.

The primary reason for going down the DAC route is the added flexibility but I'd also like to think I'll get an improvement in performance at the same time.

Any thoughts or pointers appreciated.

 

[matthewpiano]

PS I know some CD players now have digital inputs and I did think about the 8200CD and 8200 CDQ, but I think a seperate DAC would be more flexible in the long term.

I am highly unlikely to change the amp for a long time, unless I find I can afford something like the Creek 5350SE or the Musical Fidelity M3i amp. I feel that anything less would be a sideways move at the very best. Likewise with the speakers - I'd have to be in Elac or PMC territory to make it truly worthwhile from experience.

 

[the record spot]

Matthew, I'd urge you to have a good look at the Emotiva XDA-1, you'll not see too much of it in the mags, or in the shops, but they're a US brand, Item Audio in the UK have them and will send you a loan DAC out to try. £350. If you don't like it, you just pay the shipping. Incidentally, it uses the same DAC as you'll find in the Benchmark - the Analog Devices AD1955. I wouldn't be too put off by the lack of coverage either or that Emotiva aren't a well-known name.

This is one of the items on my shortlist. If, when my next freelance contract comes up, I'm still looking round for a new amp or DAC or whatever, then the Emotiva will definitely be on my shortlist. Link to the Item Audio page below and Emotiva themselves further down.

http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/emotiva_xda1.html

http://www.emotiva.com/

 

[VoodooDoctor]

Also consider the Benchmark DAC-1 USB. It has a built-in high quality headphone amp so you can get your two upgrades in one box!

 

[garyw77]

I would seriously recommend you to audition the M2Tech Young DAC.

I have found it to reproduce a beautiful natural and dynamic sound through my PMC's and have been surprised how this DAC seems to have passed by the recommendations and/or reviews (Although another well known publication did review it highly )

Superb asynchronous USB connection up to 32/384 if you need it!! Plus the usual other connections. This will last through future upgrades to a high level as well...

Very rarely seen it recommended when the usual DAC questions pop up but it's superb value for money, given the sound in my opinion, and looks the part too

My two penneth, give it a whirl

 

[Anonymous]

My suggestion goes toward the Audio-GD NFB-2 DAC.

I have it and I absolutely love it.

It has a natural, neutral sound but doesn't sound clinical or too analytical like many other DACs. Its sound is full and vibrant with just a little hint of warmness that reminds a bit of tube sound.

It digs plenty of details as well.

It's 350$ + shipment if I'm not wrong.

Take a look at it: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB-2/NFB2EN.htm

You can read loads of info at the head-fi forums.

P.S.: I remember there's also a UK reseller but I can't remember its name... you can find it on the audio-gd site. However, I'd recommend you buying directly from them.

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks for the ideas so far. The Emotiva DAC looks very interesting indeed - thanks for flagging it up RS.

The M2 Tech and Benchmark DACs look great but are beyond what I can spend given the other hi-fi items I'm aiming for (headphone amp, better turntable, better phono stage, and eventually a new CD transport and/or streaming device). I won't discount the Benchmark altogether as it does include a headphone amp, but I'd have to be sure it is going to be as good as a standalone headphone amp.

The audio-gd DAC looks interesting although I'm slightly less confident about buying anything direct from China. Will certainly do some more reading on it though.

So far the leaders are the Emotiva or the Musical Fidelity.

 

[the record spot]

Pleasure Matthew, there's an interesting discussion on another forum where the guys had a bakeoff with a bunch of other DACs - the Emotiva came out very well. Maybe a quick Google search...?

 

[Ajani]

Thanks for the ideas so far. The Emotiva DAC looks very interesting indeed - thanks for flagging it up RS.

The M2 Tech and Benchmark DACs look great but are beyond what I can spend given the other hi-fi items I'm aiming for (headphone amp, better turntable, better phono stage, and eventually a new CD transport and/or streaming device). I won't discount the Benchmark altogether as it does include a headphone amp, but I'd have to be sure it is going to be as good as a standalone headphone amp.

The audio-gd DAC looks interesting although I'm slightly less confident about buying anything direct from China. Will certainly do some more reading on it though.

So far the leaders are the Emotiva or the Musical Fidelity.

Of the DACs you are considering (within your budget), I'd be most interested in the Musical Fidelity...

I own both a Benchmark DAC1 and an Emotiva XDA-1.... I don't recommend the Emotiva... It has lots of features, but the sound is nothing special for the money... Also, I generally don't recommend Emotiva if you are a non-us customer (as I am)...

 

[the record spot]

FYI - and for others in the UK - Item Audio stock the XDA-1, can facilitate home demo stock and allow for an easy return of goods in the event of a problem.

 

[Singslinger]

I reckon the M1 DAC offers super value for money, especially since it offers balanced outputs, a feature that is rare for the price.

 

[Anonymous]

I reckon the M1 DAC offers super value for money, especially since it offers balanced outputs, a feature that is rare for the price.

Except for the Cambridge Audio Dacmagic which also has balanced Outputs and is £180 less expensive.

 

[the record spot]

...and indeed the Emotiva. Anyway, you can get a little passive converter that'll take the RCA cable in one end and allow you to hook up balanced cables to another amp out the other.

 

[nads]

I reckon the M1 DAC offers super value for money, especially since it offers balanced outputs, a feature that is rare for the price.

Except for the Cambridge Audio Dacmagic which also has balanced Outputs and is £180 less expensive.

But....... Ok before I go on I have a Dac Magic but have not tried any other DACs.... the cost of the Dac Magic is the same as the SB touch. I used the SB3 with the Dac Magic for quite some time (may be a year) while waiting for the Touch as it did make a big difference. But with the Touch I could not hear any difference so the Dac Magic just does not get used. One added benefit of the Touch is the inbuilt Spotify support over the SB3.

And as you are looking to upgrade the streamer anyway.

MySB3 is doing duties in the Kitchen with some powered speakers

 

[Al ears]

Hi,

If you are thinking of getting the M1 CLiC later this has its own DAC, or am I missing something here?

 

[matthewpiano]

Hi,

If you are thinking of getting the M1 CLiC later this has its own DAC, or am I missing something here?

Hmmm. So it has! Although I think I'm probably more likely to get the CDT and use something else for streaming. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[matthewpiano]

I reckon the M1 DAC offers super value for money, especially since it offers balanced outputs, a feature that is rare for the price.

Except for the Cambridge Audio Dacmagic which also has balanced Outputs and is £180 less expensive.

But....... Ok before I go on I have a Dac Magic but have not tried any other DACs.... the cost of the Dac Magic is the same as the SB touch. I used the SB3 with the Dac Magic for quite some time (may be a year) while waiting for the Touch as it did make a big difference. But with the Touch I could not hear any difference so the Dac Magic just does not get used. One added benefit of the Touch is the inbuilt Spotify support over the SB3.

And as you are looking to upgrade the streamer anyway.

MySB3 is doing duties in the Kitchen with some powered speakers

Interesting point - thanks . If I went down the Squeezebox Touch route, maybe I would be better to then just upgrade to a better one-box CD player for CD replay. Something like the XTZ, which looks to be excellent value.....

Lots of different ideas coming out here which is very useful indeed! I'm not rushing at this so the various different suggestions will get lots of consideration.

 

[nads]

CD replay.

you still do that! my CDP has not been used for years.

 

[the record spot]

Matthew, if you're looking at a dedicated Cd player, check out Harman's £500 (on release) HD990 - the Home Cinema Centre in Edinburgh are doing this for £299 now. I heard it with some other gear last year and was very impressed with it. It also has a DAC so might float your boat for now.

 

[matthewpiano]

CD replay.

you still do that! my CDP has not been used for years.

Yes. I've got a massive collection and can't face ripping every disc to the hard drive. I think I'll stream FLAC more and more over time, but I'm not ready to say goodbye to having a good CD player.

 

[matthewpiano]

OK, maybe NADs has a point. Perhaps it is time to start moving towards storing everything on Hard Drive and streaming it. No disc transport noise, no piles of discs cluttering the lounge (though they would still have to be stored somewhere as I would never let them go), and instant access to my music. I've been listening to the Squeezebox this afternoon and it sounds every bit as good as my CD player.

The question is, how do I go about 'modernising' the source part of my system, bearing in mind that manageable navigation of a huge number of classical titles (in addition to all the other stuff) is of prime importance (and something that the existing Squeezbox 3 can occasionally hinder), do I:

1) Go Mac Mini based (plugged into the TV), with a DAC. How much noise does a Mac Mini emit?? This is a really important consideration as the last thing I want is the wirring of fans during the quiet bits of a Wagner overture!! My other concern is that I'm not sure I want the TV on all the time while I'm listening as apart from anything else it produces a small amount of noise itself.

2) Upgrade to the Squeezebox Touch and aim to squeeze greater performance out of it by adding a really good DAC later. The Spotify support would be very useful and I think the display of album artwork would make navigation of classical recordings much easier.

3) Look at other options for streaming clients. Would something like the M1 CLiC give me discernably better performance? What about the new Cambridge Audio NP30??

What I really don't want is something with storage built-in like the Olive 3HD that doesn't allow use of an external drive to add capacity. I've already got the best part of 3,000 discs and I don't want to be restricted in the future.

 

[garyw77]

1) Go Mac Mini based (plugged into the TV), with a DAC. How much noise does a Mac Mini emit?? This is a really important consideration as the last thing I want is the wirring of fans during the quiet bits of a Wagner overture!!

I would definitely go with this option, I find the Mac Mini set up i have (upgraded to the 8GB RAM) , runs silently and is an excellent tool to use as a music server. It is actually very popular for this, literally due to its virtual silence.

Storage is virtually endless externally, either networked or via direct firewire/USB, and of course itunes solves your artwork and access problems, very easy to navigate and search (I'm using with over 100,000 tracks , with many classical and jazz titles with complex id tags).

Also later if you should want, you have the option to add a programme such as Pure Music which enables a better quality sound and upsampling if required through itunes.

Using itunes with Pure Music on this i find is superb hooked up to the DAC, highly recommended!

 

[Anonymous]

I can highly recommend Onkyo's new DAC-1000. its simply amazing, I have tried many dac's and its very good for its price.

 

[Anonymous]

I can highly recommend Onkyo's new DAC-1000. its simply amazing, I have tried many dac's and its very good for its price.

 

[nads]

The question is, how do I go about 'modernising' the source part of my system, bearing in mind that manageable navigation of a huge number of classical titles (in addition to all the other stuff) is of prime importance (and something that the existing Squeezbox 3 can occasionally hinder), do I:

TBH it will all come down to how you TAG the albums. If you do it well then I cant see an issue with the SB3 and certainly not with the Touch.

How many Clasical CDs do you have? and how/what are you using for taging now? when looking for some music how do you want to search for it?