Monitor Audio Silver 100 (old model)

[daveyjay]

Got a pair of the above on home approval. They're a couple of hundred quid cheaper than the original price of £499, so pretty good deal (?). I'm using an (ageing, I admit) Marantz M-CR603.

I want to like them, I really do - there's bags of detail, really crisp high end (which, I understand, is typical of Monitor Audio). There's plenty of bass, but it's not always as tight as I think it could be. Problem is, when things get a big more complex, it all sounds a bit of a mess and at higher volumes it all gets a bit grating. I intend to keep listening for the next couple of days and make a final decision at the weekend.

Does anyone out there have any experience with this speaker? I'm wondering whether I'm asking a little too much of them considering the source (are the MAs just accurately conveying what the Marantz is chucking out?) Should I keep them, considering the price, and look to get some better electronics (a high risk approach when doing things on a fairly tight budget).

Any comments/advice greatly received.

 

[davidf]

Your findings will be because the Silvers are just a little out of the 603's capabilities, as good as it is.

 

[daveyjay]

Hello davidf,

Yes, I was afraid this might be the case. I was hoping that the Marantz was capable of better things (reviewers have said as much in the past), but maybe I'm being a little optimistic

Thanks for your reply.

 

[daveyjay]

Has anyone succesfully partnered these speakers with any 'mid range' electronics? Can't find too many online reviews...

 

[insider9]

Define mid range? Something like an Arcam A19 would usually be recommended. But is that mid range for you? You'd then need a source whether CD player or streamer on top.

 

[daveyjay]

I suppose I'm thinking a similar (original) price to the speakers - so, around the 500 mark

 

[insider9]

I suppose I'm thinking a similar (original) price to the speakers - so, around the 500 mark

That's definitely a level of equipment that would do a decent job running them. I've owned a number of Monitor Audios including Silvers and like most speakers they benefit hugely from good amplification.

I would suggest going second hand to get best value for money. £400-£500 bracket of ex-demo or used equipment from a reputable dealer will be a safe bet.

Edit
Also should you go that way and buy from a business you do have a right to return.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I always thinks it's the case that when you buy an all in one system at that type of price, the bits that do the amplification won't be up there with similar price amps that just do amplification. Just simple economics. Obviously it is a compromise but I often see people then not happy with sound quality, so maybe it isn't a compromise as sq is pretty much often number 1 to most.

I think your speakers are good but I'd recommend running them using the audiophile arcam, Cyrus, rega, quad etc stable of amplifiers for example. The Cyrus one is fantastic around £750 and it punches well above its weight. Something like the rega brio too. Arcam a19 a bit expensive, but it might suit your needs, but I reckon the Cyrus one would compete with it with its high power class d amp. It's been known to drive loads of big speakers. Don't know if it suits your needs. You could just buy a cheap CD player or streamer initially. Obviously I am biased on the Cyrus front as I own the stuff, but the Cyrus one is a very good amp.

 

[chebby]

I am using a Marantz M-CR611 (and have used my M-CR603) more than successfully with £750 Audio Note AX-Two speakers. (Actually they probably cost more now two years after I got them.)

However, they are an easier load than the MA Silver 100s (which dip to 4.5 Ohms at upper bass freqencies) also my AX-Twos are more efficient (90dB 1 watt @ 1 metre) and I only ever want to listen at reasonable volume levels to preserve my ears

Yes you will need a much more powerful amp for 'grip' at higher volumes.

Gotta choose the right tools for the right job.

It's not a quality thing, it's a matching issue.

 

[knaithrover]

I have the RX1's and they sounded fantastic with my Arcam FMJ A19 and more recently with my old Nad C320BEE which is what they are currently matched with - both times in small rooms. Startlingly lively and musical with the Arcam, only criticism being a slight lack of bottom end welly, more grunt with the C320BEE but not quite so exciting. Not so good in a larger room matched with a couple of different Roksan amps and a Nad D3020 but more of a general bookshelf speaker issue there I reckon.

 

[Leif]

I was going to stay away due to trolling, however ...

The Silver 100 is a new design, so I assume you mean the MA Silver 1 which has just been discontinued and which I own.

There are many reasons why you might hear excess bass:

1) Room acoustics. One of the most important influences on the sound. You will get reflections. Bass frequencies can and do bounce off walls, giving rise to standing waves, and resonances. Bass frequencies are less directional then high frequencies.

2) The speaker positioning, especially in relation to walls.

3) The speaker supports. A solid support such as filled stands will tighten the bass. A flimsy support will degrade the bass.

4) The speakers. They won't have a flat frequency response. In fact, they will be anything but.

5) The amp. However, most amps have a pretty flat frequency response.

6) Connections. Badly attached or corroded connectors will cause issues.

I had huge problems with my Silver 1's due to excessive and muddy bass. Firstly these speakers do have an exaggerated bass response, so if there are other bass issues, they will be made worse. This review includes frequency response measurements:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/bookshelf/monitor-audio-silver-1-bookshelf-loudspeaker-review/

These speakers are rear ported and I found that I had to move them at least 1m from a rear wall before the bass calmed down. That meant they were almost in the middle of the room, so frankly they had to go. I replaced them with PMC twenty.21 speakers which sit quite happily in front of a wall, and which have a more natural and clearer bass, to my ears anyway. It was a shame because the MA speakers do look nice, although the wood stain does fade rather quickly. The MA Gold 50 despite being rear ported did not have the same problems.

 

[Leif]

7) The recording. Some recordings are just plain awful.

 

[davedotco]

I was going to stay away due to trolling, however ...

The Silver 100 is a new design, so I assume you mean the MA Silver 1 which has just been discontinued and which I own.

There are many reasons why you might hear excess bass:

1) Room acoustics. One of the most important influences on the sound. You will get reflections. Bass frequencies can and do bounce off walls, giving rise to standing waves, and resonances. Bass frequencies are less directional then high frequencies.

2) The speaker positioning, especially in relation to walls.

3) The speaker supports. A solid support such as filled stands will tighten the bass. A flimsy support will degrade the bass.

4) The speakers. They won't have a flat frequency response. In fact, they will be anything but.

5) The amp. However, most amps have a pretty flat frequency response.

6) Connections. Badly attached or corroded connectors will cause issues.

I had huge problems with my Silver 1's due to excessive and muddy bass. Firstly these speakers do have an exaggerated bass response, so if there are other bass issues, they will be made worse. This review includes frequency response measurements:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/bookshelf/monitor-audio-silver-1-bookshelf-loudspeaker-review/

These speakers are rear ported and I found that I had to move them at least 1m from a rear wall before the bass calmed down. That meant they were almost in the middle of the room, so frankly they had to go. I replaced them with PMC twenty.21 speakers which sit quite happily in front of a wall, and which have a more natural and clearer bass, to my ears anyway. It was a shame because the MA speakers do look nice, although the wood stain does fade rather quickly. The MA Gold 50 despite being rear ported did not have the same problems.

The position of the port is irrelevant with respect to positioning, unless you place the speaker so close to a boundary that it restricts airflow through the port.

HiFi myth #579

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

FWIW. I would avoid amps that are on the clinical side...and for my taste Cyrus would be not be a good match.

I woulld look at 2nd hand amps from Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Sugden, Unison Research Unico and Audio Analogue.

the Cyrus one isn't a clinical amp, but clinical is just another word for detail and that's a good thing particularly with a budget speaker to try and max it out on that as much as possible, where it won't reach same heights on detail as say the pmc already mentioned. But where it scores is in the class d etc.

but Amps like musical fidelity can be just as detailed. Arcam is more of a smooth bassy sound. For your needs and considering your tastes and the issue you mentioned with bass dynamics, I think that's why something like musical fidelity or Cyrus would suit your speaker and tastes. If you've got a speaker which may possibly be a bit lazy on bass, pair it with something that isn't massively bass rich, but is fast and very dynamic with the bass. That tends to be musical fidelity, Cyrus but not arcam or naim etc on the bass front. But anyway with that power the Cyrus one has and its sound its not particularly bass light anyway.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

FWIW. I would avoid amps that are on the clinical side...and for my taste Cyrus would be not be a good match.

I woulld look at 2nd hand amps from Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Sugden, Unison Research Unico and Audio Analogue.

the Cyrus one isn't a clinical amp, but clinical can just be another word for detail and that's a good thing particularly with a budget speaker to try and max it out on that as much as possible, where it won't reach same heights on detail as say the pmc already mentioned. But where it scores is in the class d etc.

but Amps like musical fidelity can be just as detailed. Arcam is more of a smooth bassy sound. For your needs and considering your tastes and the issue you mentioned with bass dynamics, I think that's why something like musical fidelity or Cyrus would suit your speaker and tastes. If you've got a speaker which may possibly be a bit lazy on bass, pair it with something that isn't massively bass rich, but is fast and very dynamic with the bass. That tends to be musical fidelity, Cyrus but not arcam or naim etc (on the bass level front with maim etc) . But anyway with that power the Cyrus one has and its sound its not particularly bass light anyway.

 

[daveyjay]

Thank you all for the comments. As mentioned previously, I had an inkling that the speakers were a bit too 'good' for the Marantz (that's not to say the sound is awful - far from it). Strikes me that I may be doing things a bit back to front, though. I always think of electronics first, then finding speakers to match. Don't want to pass up a good deal on the MAs, but perhaps I'm going to find myself never getting the best out of them.

Hmmm

 

[Leif]

Thank you all for the comments. As mentioned previously, I had an inkling that the speakers were a bit too 'good' for the Marantz (that's not to say the sound is awful - far from it). Strikes me that I may be doing things a bit back to front, though. I always think of electronics first, then finding speakers to match. Don't want to pass up a good deal on the MAs, but perhaps I'm going to find myself never getting the best out of them.

Hmmm

I don't know why I bothered.

 

[daveyjay]

Sorry Leif, didn't mean to dismiss anything you wrote. I did say thanks for all the comments. I have read your response - it's much appreciated. I just wonder if I'm going to be able to find a solution with limited funds, availability of kit and so on...

Thanks again.

 

[insider9]

There's no doubt for £500 max budget you may be restricted if you intend to go for new equipment. However £500 on a second hand market can get you a fabulous amplifier. Able to drive not just diminutive Monitor Audios but many more difficult to drive speakers.

The already mentioned Arcam A19 is currently available for £400 or best offer plus £20 postage. Safe to say £400 included max but possibly £360-£370. 3 months left from original warranty as the unit isn't even 2 years old.

 

[daveyjay]

Currently available where, Insider9?

 

[insider9]

Currently available where, Insider9?

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162652694954

 

[insider9]

I'd ask a few questions first and based on what they say start with an offer of £320-£340...

 

[davedotco]

If you want more of a complete solution, the Yamaha RN602 gives you everything bar a CD player.

A full function network receiver with 80+ watts per channel, available for £349 new from the usual suspects. Not up to the A19 in absolute terms but not that far off given your speakers and way more competent than the marantz.

All that functionality too, it can form the hub of a very comprehensive system.

 

[daveyjay]

Thanks Insider9, the Arcam looks great, doesn't it? I've always been a tad averse to using eBay - don't like all the uncertainty - perhaps I ought to man up, take a chance

 

[daveyjay]

Thanks davedotco, I'll take a look at the Yamaha, also...