Monitor Audio going active (probably)

[drummerman]

In an interview with Monitor Audio in a recent edition of a hifi magazine MA stated they had taken 'conventional' speaker design and drive units as far as they could and are contemplating entering the active speaker market as the benefits (over passive xovers) are obvious.

They are of course not the first ones to do so, neither will they be the last.

At the time I did wish Quad would have made a larger version of its 9La active speaker for domestic purposes, Perhaps an 11la or 12la but it didn't happen.

 

[gowiththeflow]

It should come as no surprise if Monitor Audio go down this route. Most of the major speaker manufacturers will be getting into active speakers in one form or another over the next few years. There's an increasing trend towards convergence and convenience which the speaker manufacturers need to be part of, before other players in the audio world take their business away.

The most likely approach in my estimation, will be to go for digital wireless active speakers, with DAC's and Amps built into each speaker. Dynaudio are one of the big players who have already committed to this development, with three ranges covering budget to upper-mid end price ranges. Others already in this market space include Elac, Focal, and Linn.

Monitor Audio have already had a limited presence in the Amp market, but going in to Active speakers market might be a better bet.

 

[drummerman]

Yup. Active domestic speakers are nothing new, Meridian, B&O and probably a few selected others have been at it for decades but it does show the foresight Ashley and Martin of AVI had when they made their affordable, presentable and useable ADM's a few years back imho.

 

[DocG]

I like the concept of the Audiovector Discreet system. It still needs a (small) hub, but the connection to the speakers is very thin, though it carries the (digital) signal and the (DC) power. It uses PCM to PWM conversion, thus keeping everything digital right to the drivers.

I never heard Discreet in action though, so can't comment on the end result...

 

[drummerman]

I like the concept of the Audiovector Discreet system. It still needs a (small) hub, but the connection to the speakers is very thin, though it carries the (digital) signal and the (DC) power. It uses PCM to PWM conversion, thus keeping everything digital right to the drivers.

I never heard Discreet in action though, so can't comment on the end result...

Though it does also convert analogue signals into digital. Some may frown upon that.

 

[plastic penguin]

Like any company now they [MA] are pandering to the 'minimalist' consumer. Many people either can't have full separates or don't want the hassle of storing records and CDs.

But this is just an option to a traditional set-up. I can't ever see the day these established companies will ever drop most of their passive models.

FWIW, the only significant thing about Ashley is how he can forge a seige mentality around his bundles. Active speakers have been in existence since domestic home stereos came into being.

If MA produce a good quality active or powered speaker, good on them. They're only tapping into a relative minority format of stereo playback.

 

[daveh75]

If MA produce a good quality active or powered speaker, good on them. They're only tapping into a relative minority format of stereo playback.

Er, 'HiFi' is the minority format of stereo playback...

 

[MajorFubar]

In an interview with Monitor Audio in a recent edition of a hifi magazine MA stated they had taken 'conventional' speaker design and drive units as far as they could and are contemplating entering the active speaker market as the benefits (over passive xovers) are obvious.

With that attitude and frankly stupid statement it sounds more like they just don't want to miss a potentially-lucrative bandwagon. Before I get misintetrpretted yet again, I'm not diss'ing active technology because I've made it plain in various posts that if I had it all to do again with the same money that's the way I'd head, but equally, surely there are still advancements and refinements yet to be made to passive speakers? They could easily have said the same thing 25 years ago, yet I'm pretty sure the last quarter of a century must've seen some advancements in 'conventional ' speaker and drive-unit technology.

 

[plastic penguin]

If MA produce a good quality active or powered speaker, good on them. They're only tapping into a relative minority format of stereo playback.

Er, 'HiFi' is the minority format of stereo playback...

How do you work that one out? Very few high street retailers stock actives, and even online actives are still in a minority.

 

[plastic penguin]

In an interview with Monitor Audio in a recent edition of a hifi magazine MA stated they had taken 'conventional' speaker design and drive units as far as they could and are contemplating entering the active speaker market as the benefits (over passive xovers) are obvious.

With that attitude and frankly stupid statement it sounds more like they just don't want to miss a potentially-lucrative bandwagon. Before I get misintetrpretted yet again, I'm not diss'ing active technology because I've made it plain in various posts that if I had it all to do again with the same money that's the way I'd head, but equally, surely there are still advancements and refinements yet to be made to passive speakers? They could easily have said the same thing 25 years ago, yet I'm pretty sure the last quarter of a century must've seen some advancements in 'conventional ' speaker and drive-unit technology.

Agree.

 

[expat_mike]

If MA produce a good quality active or powered speaker, good on them. They're only tapping into a relative minority format of stereo playback.

Er, 'HiFi' is the minority format of stereo playback...

How do you work that one out? Very few high street retailers stock actives, and even online actives are still in a minority.

I would suspect that probably 99% of stereo playback is non-hifi, when you think of how much music is listened to around the world, using ipods, mobile phones, old transistor radios, cheap active speakers for use with computers,.......

 

[richardw42]

If MA produce a good quality active or powered speaker, good on them. They're only tapping into a relative minority format of stereo playback.

Er, 'HiFi' is the minority format of stereo playback...

How do you work that one out? Very few high street retailers stock actives, and even online actives are still in a minority.

you are kidding. What about Currys, Apple, Bose, B&O. These are the major players. All my friends listen to music and I can't think of any of them ever visiting a HI FI shop.

 

[DocG]

I like the concept of the Audiovector Discreet system. It still needs a (small) hub, but the connection to the speakers is very thin, though it carries the (digital) signal and the (DC) power. It uses PCM to PWM conversion, thus keeping everything digital right to the drivers.

I never heard Discreet in action though, so can't comment on the end result...

Though it does also convert analogue signals into digital. Some may frown upon that.

Probably the same people that don't like the music signal travelling together with the power in the same wire...

Still, I'd like to hear it!

 

[plastic penguin]

If MA produce a good quality active or powered speaker, good on them. They're only tapping into a relative minority format of stereo playback.

Er, 'HiFi' is the minority format of stereo playback...

How do you work that one out? Very few high street retailers stock actives, and even online actives are still in a minority.

you are kidding. What about Currys, Apple, Bose, B&O. These are the major players. All my friends listen to music and I can't think of any of them ever visiting a HI FI shop.

C'mon! how many people like or can afford B&O or Bose which are hideously overpriced.

Yeah, if you really want to visit Curries or any other retailer such as that you are welcome.

Curries are really good but I certainly wouldn't buy a stereo system from them. Very few proper retail outlets stock well-known actives. Fact.

 

[Frank Harvey]

And the reason most hi-fi retailers don't stock actives (despite claims to the contrary), is that very few people ask for them. We are talking here of a niche market within a niche market. Until enough people walk through their front door asking for such speakers, they're not going to be a viable stock item for an independent retailer.

We stocked the Dynaudio actives upon their release - hardly anyone came in asking about them. Eventually they had to go as dead stock is a fast track to the great demo room in the sky. In the past we've had B&O active speakers, which were obviously more popular.

Far more people ask about wireless speakers than active speakers - and once they find out that mains cables are still needed to each speaker, they lose interest.

 

[Leeps]

And the reason most hi-fi retailers don't stock actives (despite claims to the contrary), is that very few people ask for them. We are talking here of a niche market within a niche market. Until enough people walk through their front door asking for such speakers, they're not going to be a viable stock item for an independent retailer.

We stocked the Dynaudio actives upon their release - hardly anyone came in asking about them. Eventually they had to go as dead stock is a fast track to the great demo room in the sky. In the past we've had B&O active speakers, which were obviously more popular.

Far more people ask about wireless speakers than active speakers - and once they find out that mains cables are still needed to each speaker, they lose interest.

 

[Leeps]

We stocked the Dynaudio actives upon their release - hardly anyone came in asking about them.

Did you think they were any good though?

Isn't it part of a dealer's role to educate the punter and meet their needs in a way they're not aware of yet? There must be a lot of consumers who want hifi sound but want a low box-count in their listening room. Of course, if you simply didn't think they were very good, I quite understand why you'd not steer anyone in that direction.

How many customers walk in asking for one product and go out with precisely that item? I'd imagine quite a few go away with something completely different based on suggestions you make.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Did you think they were any good though?

Yes, they were good, but I suppose the main stumbling block was their price, but still three mains leads, and your source cables into the little pre-box. Dynaudio replaced them with ones that has a built in box, then stuck a "wart" on top of them.

Isn't it part of a dealer's role to educate the punter and meet their needs in a way they're not aware of yet? There must be a lot of consumers who want hifi sound but want a low box-count in their listening room. Of course, if you simply didn't think they were very good, I quite understand why you'd not steer anyone in that direction.

I think the biggest stumbling block isn't the amount of boxes, it's the cabling that is associated with it all. People think that lowering the box count reduces cabling, but it doesn't seem to, even in an active system, and once people realise thsi they're not so bothered about less boxes. It's only really all-in-one systems like the Naim Unitis and the Cyrus Lyric that genuinely reduce cabling. I also think in some people's eyes, active speakers don't appear "value for money". The Dynaudios were based on £900 speakers, and retailed for £2300, and you then had to add your source. A good £500/600 amp would work fine with the passive versions.

How many customers walk in asking for one product and go out with precisely that item? I'd imagine quite a few go away with something completely different based on suggestions you make.

Quite a few, as quite a number of people have made up their minds before they walk into the store. Then there are those that actually take the time to listen to a few products and choose whatever they like, whether it is what they originally intended to buy or not. I can only make suggestions based on feedback of what the customer needs, and what they like sound wise.

 

[chebby]

Very few proper retail outlets stock well-known actives. Fact.

My local John Lewis stock active speakers from Sonos (three models), B&W (at least three types), Naim (mu-so), and others.

I count John Lewis as a 'proper retail outlet' and Sonos, B&W and Naim are 'well-known' surely?

 

[chebby]

I think the biggest stumbling block isn't the amount of boxes, it's the cabling that is associated with it all. People think that lowering the box count reduces cabling, but it doesn't seem to ...

Really? I remember my last 'separates' system (CDP, tuner, amp, DAC, speakers) had 12 cables (4 x mains, 2 x DIN -> DIN interconnect, 1x RCA pair, 1 x USB, 1 x optical, 2 x speaker cable, 1 x FM aerial co-ax).

Then I bought a Marantz M-CR603 and the cabling count halved to just 6. (1 x mains, 1 x ethernet, 1 x optical, 1 x FM aerial co-ax, 2 x speaker cables).

With my latest amp/DAC (Quad Vena) I lost the ethernet and the FM aerial co-ax, so the cable count dropped to 4. (1 x mains, 1 x optical and 2 x speaker cables.)

It makes a heck of a difference.

 

[drummerman]

Strange, cabling doesn't really bother me to much (I use a MkI cyrus hark stand which has a neat way of integrating much of the cabling ... minus a mains and the speaker cables). However, I also use a TT and separate phono stage which brings the count up again .

Agree though, the drive towards almost cable free will probably be a happy occurance for many. This almost inevitably involves active or powered speakers too.

I certainly wouldn't count out going active but there are not that many I like the look of (or have the facilities I like) and those that do I can't afford.

I think there is definitively room (and a market) for decent, domestic friendly styled £500 to £1000 active speakers with integrated hub/pre-amp from some of the larger names.

 

[plastic penguin]

Very few proper retail outlets stock well-known actives. Fact.

My local John Lewis stock active speakers from Sonos (three models), B&W (at least three types), Naim (mu-so), and others.

I count John Lewis as a 'proper retail outlet' and Sonos, B&W and Naim are 'well-known' surely?

And how many well-known actives does JL supply? My original reply was in the context of Drummerman's thread about MA possibly producing actives.

When it comes to high street hi-fi/AV outlets, actives are sparse. JL is a huge store but I would never class them as a hi-fi retailer.

I phoned SSAV, at Sevenoaks about 3 years ago, and they only stocked Dynaudio actives. They retailed around £1800. That could have changed since then.

But certainly my local hi-fi retailers (SSAV Kingston, Unilet, Infidelity...) don't stock actives.

 

[chebby]

And how many well-known actives does JL supply?

Loads, I listed some but you chose to ignore them.

An active speaker = an electronic crossover filtering the signal from the pre-amp before amplification then feeding individually powered drivers. Each with their own power amp...

... it's nothing to do with where they are sold, or what you think of the brand, or some notion of 'proper hi-fi' (whatever the #### that is ), or your emotions surrounding big retail chains vs little independents.

It's a topology not an effing cult. Active topology can live in separate boxes, or in a single cabinet. It can have many or few drivers and power amps. They can be class D modules or valve monoblocs.

 

[steve_1979]

Yes, they were good, but I suppose the main stumbling block was their price, but still three mains leads, and your source cables into the little pre-box. Dynaudio replaced them with ones that has a built in box, then stuck a "wart" on top of them.

Although it's worth going active for the improvement in sound quality the cables are the only thing that I prefer with passive speakers over actives. Regular speaker cables are much easier to hide than 2 mains cables and a AUX/XLR cable which as well as being thick also tend to stick out further too. Then some other active speakers such as the AVI and a few Genelec ones also need extra cables for connecting various other digital sources etc and it can all start to look a bit messy. There are workarounds by using suitable speaker stands and some zip ties but it's never as eligant as single runs of passive speaker cables. Sure regular passive hifi's can have just as many cables as an active system but they're much harder to hide when they need to go to the speakers rather than a bunch of boxes in a rack.

IMO Dynaudio and Audiovector have the right idea for domestic actives with their wireless(ish) speaker systems.

 

[abacus]

There is no reason to have the amplifiers in the speakers (Its just more convienient for proffesional use), as you can have the electronic crossovers (And if required pro quality DSP) and amps in your rack and just run dual cables to the speakers. (As a lot of uses that bi-amp do)

Bill