Mogami interconnects.

[Andrewjvt]

There are no group thinks but individual opinions making up collectives, both for an against. But nobody should tell you that you definitely can’t hear any change.

It’s a bit like buying a sports car and your neighbour buying a car of a similar sports car type but different make, and the neighbour telling you that your car doesn’t corner as well with no real explainable reason, or reasons hard to predict, and with the neighbour not ever having driven your car. 

No one on here has said you can't hear a difference?

The point is

if the difference you 'HEARD' is real or not that's being suggested.

Take some time to think about what has been replied before replying and please don't bring the cost of any equipment into the equation.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

We don’t hear what we want too. I don’t see what I want too...

if you hear a difference with two speaker cables therefore, you really are hearing it. If you think it’s not by much, ask yourself is it really a difference. If it’s obvious, you don’t need make that judgement. Do you make those judgements if you have a pint of Guinness then makeson, stout when it’s obvious? The two are similar but the Guiness is dryer and makeson sweeter. But wait I’ve got to think of expectation bias....I could be thinking the guiness is makeson. Of course not.

And yes you should bring the quality of amplification into debates around cables. Is it worth using £10/m speaker wire on a £50 micro system and swapping the bell wire out for £10/m cables. Hell no. Unlikely to make any difference.

so your point about not hearing a difference is moot, as you are suggesting it’s in my head. It’s most certainly not.

 

[CnoEvil]

We don’t hear what we want too. I don’t see what I want too...

What do your eyes see here:

I am a cable believer - but I am also aware that we can be fooled.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

You are applying a reason without the context or specificity around the functioning of the ears, the auditory cortex etc.

We know about this and the mcgurk effect etc etc. We know our brains relate what we hear (in the auditory cortex) to Sounds we know of to make sense of them (the neuronal pathways from the auditory cortex to the forward thinking parts of the brain)

The reason we see these shapes is from an evolutionary sense we have learned to make sense of a 3d environment. It confers a select advantage.

But how do you apply your pictures cnoevil to hearing what we want in two Sounds which are quite different, or of different quality, and in an auditory perspective.

I see no advantage to hear something and then make it be something else, not only in sound but the extent of quality of sound. Do you agree. Unless on lsd where it might happen. If we heard two sounds of different quality but our brains interpreted them as being the same, that would confer a distinct disadvantage to us.

How can anyone draw a parallel that because we see a 3d image used to try and slow traffic down, that somehow in hearing Sounds we hear something totally different analogous to a 2d image being a 3d one. It would be like hearing a car and thinking it’s a jet engine.

Sometimes we can hear a sound that we don’t know what it is. Our auditory cortex relates it to memory centres and it could evoke a startle response. One chap on a forum gave an explanation of thinking a rustling plastic bag was a dangerous foraging animal and threat. If you’ve built knowledge of the rustling animal before and it’s in your memory bank, if you hear an unfamiliar sound you can think it’s the foraging animal. But how do we apply this to hi Fi. I know what a drum beat is and I’m comparing the quality of dynamics of a drum in one cable to another. The analogy doesn’t work.

 

[Al ears]

We don’t hear what we want too. I don’t see what I want too...

What do your eyes see here:

I am a cable believer - but I am also aware that we can be fooled.

I don't know about slow down, with those in the road I wouldn't even attempt to drive up it... ;-)

"Escher, a word with you a minute please...."

 

[davedotco]

Express a view that is outside of this and you are "arrogant" or perhaps worse.

As I see it, it's not what is expressed that is arrogant - but how it's expressed.

There is really no argument that large parts of the hi-fi industry subscribe to a certain point of view, it is a part of how they make there living.

The whole 'newer is better', 'cables make a difference', etc, etc is the way that they work and the many of the magazines, blogs and fora support this and encourage subjective listening and making your own mind up. Nothing much wrong with that in itself but it can and is used to develope a kind of subjective groupthink that panders to peoples biases and egos and in general, serves the industry rather well.

For example...

You get to try some 'better' cables in your system, you report that you don't think you can hear a difference. The response is that if you can't hear a difference, then your system is not good enough. Of course, the implication being that you need to upgrade your system!

There are plenty of other examples and plenty of myths too, many surrounding cables such as silver is brighter than copper or rear ported speakers nead to be used further away from a wall than front ported and many others that feed into the established view.

If I was still in the business, one dem I would love to do for you would be to challenge your views on class A amplification. That would be fun.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Well I am not afraid of saying that I’ve had a night and day difference between Atlas speaker cable and audioquest rocket 33 speaker cable I’ve still got my atlas speaker cable and If used it now I could tell a difference between that and the atlas cable do not ask why I can but I can ive had the audioquest for over a year and the atlas cable a year before the audioquest cable so it can’t be my mind playing tricks on me .

i agree the atlas cable sound bland and not very involving I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP considering it costs over £10 a meter

i understand that there is no proof that cables can change the sound a little I just wished that theses cable companies came up with the science It’s the case of suck it and see for your self because if you trust your own judgment when buying hifi then what you hear though a speaker cable should be the same. .

 

[davedotco]

Well I am not afraid of saying that I’ve had a night and day difference between Atlas speaker cable and audioquest rocket 33 speaker cable I’ve still got my atlas speaker cable and If used it now I could tell a difference between that and the atlas cable do not ask why I can but I can ive had the audioquest for over a year and the atlas cable a year before the audioquest cable so it can’t be my mind playing tricks on me .

i agree the atlas cable sound bland and not very involving I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP considering it costs over £10 a meter

i understand that there is no proof that cables can change the sound a little I just wished that theses cable companies came up with the science It’s the case of suck it and see for your self because if you trust your own judgment when buying hifi then what you hear though a speaker cable should be the same. .

I have absolutely no doubt that you believe what you say, subjective views can be very resiliant.

In other circumstances I would love to put this to the test by doing a simple blind test, at least it would tell us whether the cables are 'bland and not very involving' in reality or whether you are simpling reacting to views you already hold. It would be interesting.

As for cable companies coming up with a viable scientific explanation, well that is very unlikely, signal transmission in and around the audio band is pretty well understood, whilst clear differences can be measured and (arguably) heard, they will be for reasons that are clearly understood.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Express a view that is outside of this and you are "arrogant" or perhaps worse.

As I see it, it's not what is expressed that is arrogant - but how it's expressed.

There is really no argument that large parts of the hi-fi industry subscribe to a certain point of view, it is a part of how they make there living.

The whole 'newer is better', 'cables make a difference', etc, etc is the way that they work and the many of the magazines, blogs and fora support this and encourage subjective listening and making your own mind up. Nothing much wrong with that in itself but it can and is used to develope a kind of subjective groupthink that panders to peoples biases and egos and in general, serves the industry rather well.

For example...

You get to try some 'better' cables in your system, you report that you don't think you can hear a difference. The response is that if you can't hear a difference, then your system is not good enough. Of course, the implication being that you need to upgrade your system!

There are plenty of other examples and plenty of myths too, many surrounding cables such as silver is brighter than copper or rear ported speakers nead to be used further away from a wall than front ported and many others that feed into the established view.

If I was still in the business, one dem I would love to do for you would be to challenge your views on class A amplification. That would be fun.

The group think of the industry that newer is better (to drive new sales) is one thing but the industry think that ‘cables make a difference’ is another, and one you’ve said you agree on ie you said they make slight differences. But in any event regardless of the industry, consumers always make value judgements unless they are a bit gullible.

The cable debate is never that a piece of wire is always better because it’s more expensive. Sometimes the case, sometimes not - no hard or fast rules. It’s simply ‘cables can be better than others’. Sometimes price downgrades equals better sound. Generally I don’t think you can say the same with amps and speakers up to a level - tends to be the more you spend the better you get. I don’t think anyone could make the argument if you can’t hear a difference you must upgrade your system considering the extent of how happy you are with the system.

but these points around hearing, the way we hear, and how this is or isn’t influenced, and arguments of bias, are interesting. A lot of the points people come up with on that score are hogwash.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Well I am not afraid of saying that I’ve had a night and day difference between Atlas speaker cable and audioquest rocket 33 speaker cable I’ve still got my atlas speaker cable and If used it now I could tell a difference between that and the atlas cable do not ask why I can but I can ive had the audioquest for over a year and the atlas cable a year before the audioquest cable so it can’t be my mind playing tricks on me .

i agree the atlas cable sound bland and not very involving I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP considering it costs over £10 a meter

i understand that there is no proof that cables can change the sound a little I just wished that theses cable companies came up with the science It’s the case of suck it and see for your self because if you trust your own judgment when buying hifi then what you hear though a speaker cable should be the same. .

I have absolutely no doubt that you believe what you say, subjective views can be very resiliant.

In other circumstances I would love to put this to the test by doing a simple blind test, at least it would tell us whether the cables are 'bland and not very involving' in reality or whether you are simpling reacting to views you already hold. It would be interesting.

As for cable companies coming up with a viable scientific explanation, well that is very unlikely, signal transmission in and around the audio band is pretty well understood, whilst clear differences can be measured and (arguably) heard, they will be for reasons that are clearly understood.

i might disagree with blacksabbath on his choice of speakers, but I couldn’t agree with him more on his findings of differences between atlas and audioquest. Different constructions and materials and his assessment of atlas being bland (I’m taking it the hyper quite possibly blacksabbath?)

I tried atlas hyper 2.0 (£20/m) against chord carnival silver screen which is now replaced by clearway But was £6.20/m. The chord was dynamic, detailed and more musically coherent. More layers. The atlas was flatter and less dynamic, less detailed and less musical and fewer layers. And it was a night and day difference in cable terms.

its not now subjective Davedotco as more than one person believes it, and I know a number of people who have made that swap for the better. It will depend upon the system and preference as well, where for a very revealing system, atlas hyper may be better. For instance toning the detail down on some kef reference ones if your amp is very detailed too.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Well I am not afraid of saying that I’ve had a night and day difference between Atlas speaker cable and audioquest rocket 33 speaker cable I’ve still got my atlas speaker cable and If used it now I could tell a difference between that and the atlas cable do not ask why I can but I can ive had the audioquest for over a year and the atlas cable a year before the audioquest cable so it can’t be my mind playing tricks on me .

i agree the atlas cable sound bland and not very involving I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP considering it costs over £10 a meter

i understand that there is no proof that cables can change the sound a little I just wished that theses cable companies came up with the science It’s the case of suck it and see for your self because if you trust your own judgment when buying hifi then what you hear though a speaker cable should be the same. .

I have absolutely no doubt that you believe what you say, subjective views can be very resiliant.

In other circumstances I would love to put this to the test by doing a simple blind test, at least it would tell us whether the cables are 'bland and not very involving' in reality or whether you are simpling reacting to views you already hold. It would be interesting.

As for cable companies coming up with a viable scientific explanation, well that is very unlikely, signal transmission in and around the audio band is pretty well understood, whilst clear differences can be measured and (arguably) heard, they will be for reasons that are clearly understood.

I could tell the difference on my hifi in my house if someone swapped between the 2 different cables I own in a blind test easily even though the atlas cables have been sitting in my attic for over a year I could still tell it’s a shame you do not live close to me as I would be happy to show you .

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Well I am not afraid of saying that I’ve had a night and day difference between Atlas speaker cable and audioquest rocket 33 speaker cable I’ve still got my atlas speaker cable and If used it now I could tell a difference between that and the atlas cable do not ask why I can but I can ive had the audioquest for over a year and the atlas cable a year before the audioquest cable so it can’t be my mind playing tricks on me .

i agree the atlas cable sound bland and not very involving I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP considering it costs over £10 a meter

i understand that there is no proof that cables can change the sound a little I just wished that theses cable companies came up with the science It’s the case of suck it and see for your self because if you trust your own judgment when buying hifi then what you hear though a speaker cable should be the same. .

I have absolutely no doubt that you believe what you say, subjective views can be very resiliant.

In other circumstances I would love to put this to the test by doing a simple blind test, at least it would tell us whether the cables are 'bland and not very involving' in reality or whether you are simpling reacting to views you already hold. It would be interesting.

As for cable companies coming up with a viable scientific explanation, well that is very unlikely, signal transmission in and around the audio band is pretty well understood, whilst clear differences can be measured and (arguably) heard, they will be for reasons that are clearly understood.

I could tell the difference on my hifi in my house if someone swapped between the 2 different cables I own in a blind test easily even though the atlas cables have been sitting in my attic for over a year I could still tell it’s a shame you do not live close to me as I would be happy to show you .

ive already done that double blind test at home with chord epic v talk 4, and it was very easy to discern.

 

[CnoEvil]

Express a view that is outside of this and you are "arrogant" or perhaps worse.

As I see it, it's not what is expressed that is arrogant - but how it's expressed.

There is really no argument that large parts of the hi-fi industry subscribe to a certain point of view, it is a part of how they make there living.

The whole 'newer is better', 'cables make a difference', etc, etc is the way that they work and the many of the magazines, blogs and fora support this and encourage subjective listening and making your own mind up. Nothing much wrong with that in itself but it can and is used to develope a kind of subjective groupthink that panders to peoples biases and egos and in general, serves the industry rather well.

For example...

You get to try some 'better' cables in your system, you report that you don't think you can hear a difference. The response is that if you can't hear a difference, then your system is not good enough. Of course, the implication being that you need to upgrade your system!

There are plenty of other examples and plenty of myths too, many surrounding cables such as silver is brighter than copper or rear ported speakers nead to be used further away from a wall than front ported and many others that feed into the established view.

If I was still in the business, one dem I would love to do for you would be to challenge your views on class A amplification. That would be fun.

Interesting as that may be, it has nothing to do with the tone with which some post. You were in the business...and if you spoke to customers with the dismissive arrogance that is used by some on here, you wouldn't have remained in business for long.

If I was a strong cable sceptic, I would make my point without resorting to insults.

As for my views - I'm quite happy for them to be challanged. I know what I like and if I could have found that outside of Class A, I would have done so. As it happened, I didn't choose the amp because it was Class A, as I only found that out after I discovered that I liked it best, out of many options.....which included almost every topology you can think of; and I ended up with the only Class A of the bunch, without knowing what it was. Coincidence?

Have you ever heard an AMS 35i? There are very, very few genuine full Class A SS amps out there, as most are simply highly biased ones.

 

[davedotco]

Well I am not afraid of saying that I’ve had a night and day difference between Atlas speaker cable and audioquest rocket 33 speaker cable I’ve still got my atlas speaker cable and If used it now I could tell a difference between that and the atlas cable do not ask why I can but I can ive had the audioquest for over a year and the atlas cable a year before the audioquest cable so it can’t be my mind playing tricks on me .

i agree the atlas cable sound bland and not very involving I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP considering it costs over £10 a meter

i understand that there is no proof that cables can change the sound a little I just wished that theses cable companies came up with the science It’s the case of suck it and see for your self because if you trust your own judgment when buying hifi then what you hear though a speaker cable should be the same. .

I have absolutely no doubt that you believe what you say, subjective views can be very resiliant.

In other circumstances I would love to put this to the test by doing a simple blind test, at least it would tell us whether the cables are 'bland and not very involving' in reality or whether you are simpling reacting to views you already hold. It would be interesting.

As for cable companies coming up with a viable scientific explanation, well that is very unlikely, signal transmission in and around the audio band is pretty well understood, whilst clear differences can be measured and (arguably) heard, they will be for reasons that are clearly understood.

I could tell the difference on my hifi in my house if someone swapped between the 2 different cables I own in a blind test easily even though the atlas cables have been sitting in my attic for over a year I could still tell it’s a shame you do not live close to me as I would be happy to show you .

Love to be able to try that, doing it in your own system would be a real test.

I know you are convinced in what you say and I would not wish to contradict you without testing.

To be fair, I am not familiar with the cables in question but I have, in the past conducted blind tests with members of the hi-fi fraternity, that have literally turned their, and my, preconceptions on their head.

It's an interesting subject if you can get past the 'usual' arguments. I am scientifically trained and consider myself something of a pragmatist, so I know that my views are skewed by this to such an extent that I know that I apply deep cynicism to much of the 'established wisdom', it's just my way.

 

[davedotco]

Well I am not afraid of saying that I’ve had a night and day difference between Atlas speaker cable and audioquest rocket 33 speaker cable I’ve still got my atlas speaker cable and If used it now I could tell a difference between that and the atlas cable do not ask why I can but I can ive had the audioquest for over a year and the atlas cable a year before the audioquest cable so it can’t be my mind playing tricks on me .

i agree the atlas cable sound bland and not very involving I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP considering it costs over £10 a meter

i understand that there is no proof that cables can change the sound a little I just wished that theses cable companies came up with the science It’s the case of suck it and see for your self because if you trust your own judgment when buying hifi then what you hear though a speaker cable should be the same. .

I have absolutely no doubt that you believe what you say, subjective views can be very resiliant.

In other circumstances I would love to put this to the test by doing a simple blind test, at least it would tell us whether the cables are 'bland and not very involving' in reality or whether you are simpling reacting to views you already hold. It would be interesting.

As for cable companies coming up with a viable scientific explanation, well that is very unlikely, signal transmission in and around the audio band is pretty well understood, whilst clear differences can be measured and (arguably) heard, they will be for reasons that are clearly understood.

I could tell the difference on my hifi in my house if someone swapped between the 2 different cables I own in a blind test easily even though the atlas cables have been sitting in my attic for over a year I could still tell it’s a shame you do not live close to me as I would be happy to show you .

ive already done that double blind test at home with chord epic v talk 4, and it was very easy to discern.

You set up a double blind test at home?

Fantastic, do tell us more.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I’ve done that before Daved but quick recap.

10 songs picked we both know which start quickly ie no quiet build ups. Variation of rock, Electronic, classical etc. 2 cables : talk 4 and chord epic reference. This isn’t test of cheap v expensive btw but just against hypothesis ; “different cables can perform differently in systems to differing degrees of performance and can be picked out in abx tests accordingly ”. Chord performs really well, talk cable performs bad as already known. Chord is current cable, but talk not used for some time but tested before with bad results ie flat, lacking dynamics and detail compared to epic. System as in my signature but had pmc twenty 23 speakers at time of test. Not my current pmc twenty5 23s

my friend confidentially assigns cable a or b as each - it’s up to him. he then assigns heads as cable a or b but again up to him, so I don’t know. For assigning cables for track 1 he flips a coin, which is first cable a or b, then next cable is opposite one.he again flips the coin for the third double blind test to select cable a or b

so

a is Chord, b is talk

track 1 : A If flipped as Chord first, B talk second, X - flipped A for chord

track 2 etc

On changing the cables I went into a separate room with the tv on so I couldn’t hear cables being changed, I was blindfolded all the time and led in and out by my friend to sit in same seat in my living room. Volume was kept the same, first 30 seconds of track played. Quick changeovers. I was simply told here is cable a or b or whatever first, then secondly here is cable a or b, then on the x test was asked which it was. My choices were recorded.

I did 5 in a row correct and my friend said I’d got them all right so asked me after 5 if I wanted to stop as I’d got them all correct. So we stopped the test. It was ridiculously easy to tell anyway, maybe not on two cables with similar performance but I deliberately picked one which sounds great and another which is poor in my system. My friend then did it and he similarly got around 4 or 5 in a row right. I kept my choices of cable a or b confidential and coin tosses too. He knows my system and I had demoed the two cables to him in a sighted demo before. We listened to both cables before the tests to let our ears adjust to their differences.

the chances of getting five in a row are 1/32 or what’s that about 3 percent probability, so it was probably clearly statistically significant. If we did with more people I’d have no doubt we could recreate with others. You would need :

- person has revealing enough hi Fi or considered same. No measurement of same just confidence of same .You don’t pick people who are 10 percent confident there system wouldn’t reveal differences

- that reckonings of two cables are far apart in performance and or preference, not marginal changes. Both cables performance already known in sighted experiments.

- that person who is confident enough in picking the two cables out in abx double blind tests. Again confidence question. You have to be reasonably sure you can do it before you try.

- that the person does it on their hi Fi so they are familiar. Like my friend he was familiar with mine. You can’t do these tests on unfamiliar systems or in shops. Same acoustic environment.

- that tests have already been done on cables which perform better in open sighted tests, so picking a bad one versus good one.

this should then test whether what you hear as differences in sighted tests with good and bad performing cables in your system, are too reflected in the abx double blind test. We found this was the case in afew tracks.

 

[davedotco]

I’ve done that before Daved but quick recap.

10 songs picked we both know which start quickly ie no quiet build ups. Variation of rock, Electronic, classical etc. 2 cables : talk 4 and chord epic reference. This isn’t test of cheap v expensive btw but just against hypothesis ; “different cables can perform differently in systems to differing degrees of performance and can be picked out in abx tests accordingly ”. Chord performs really well, talk cable performs bad as already known. Chord is current cable, but talk not used for some time but tested before with bad results ie flat, lacking dynamics and detail compared to epic. System as in my signature but had pmc twenty 23 speakers at time of test. Not my current pmc twenty5 23s

my friend confidentially assigns cable a or b as each - it’s up to him. he then assigns heads as cable a or b but again up to him, so I don’t know. For assigning cables for track 1 he flips a coin, which is first cable a or b, then next cable is opposite one.he again flips the coin for the third double blind test to select cable a or b

so

a is Chord, b is talk

track 1 : A If flipped as Chord first, B talk second, X - flipped A for chord

track 2 etc

On changing the cables I went into a separate room with the tv on so I couldn’t hear cables being changed, I was blindfolded all the time and led in and out by my friend to sit in same seat in my living room. Volume was kept the same, first 30 seconds of track played. Quick changeovers. I was simply told here is cable a or b or whatever first, then secondly here is cable a or b, then on the x test was asked which it was. My choices were recorded.

I did 5 in a row correct and my friend said I’d got them all right so asked me after 5 if I wanted to stop as I’d got them all correct. So we stopped the test. It was ridiculously easy to tell anyway, maybe not on two cables with similar performance but I deliberately picked one which sounds great and another which is poor in my system. My friend then did it and he similarly got around 4 or 5 in a row right. I kept my choices of cable a or b confidential and coin tosses too. He knows my system and I had demoed the two cables to him in a sighted demo before. We listened to both cables before the tests to let our ears adjust to their differences.

the chances of getting five in a row are 1/32 or what’s that about 3 percent probability, so it was probably clearly statistically significant. If we did with more people I’d have no doubt we could recreate with others. You would need :

- person has revealing enough hi Fi or considered same. No measurement of same just confidence of same .You don’t pick people who are 10 percent confident there system wouldn’t reveal differences

- that reckonings of two cables are far apart in performance and or preference, not marginal changes. Both cables performance already known in sighted experiments.

- that person who is confident enough in picking the two cables out in abx double blind tests. Again confidence question. You have to be reasonably sure you can do it before you try.

- that the person does it on their hi Fi so they are familiar. Like my friend he was familiar with mine. You can’t do these tests on unfamiliar systems or in shops. Same acoustic environment.

- that tests have already been done on cables which perform better in open sighted tests, so picking a bad one versus good one.

this should then test whether what you hear as differences in sighted tests with good and bad performing cables in your system, are too reflected in the abx double blind test. We found this was the case in afew tracks.

Very reasonable methodology considering that the tests were done at home, fantastic results too, being able to pick the correct cable every time is very, very impressive even allowing for the 'preconditioning'.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

This I think more than evidences to me that cables can perform well and badly in known familiar systems, but try it on systems not known well where no individual preference has been reached on good or bad cables, where differences might be slight, in acoustic environments not known, you could get very different results. That’s why any abx double blind tests on people who aren’t familiar with systems, can lead to variable results, and should be avoided.

it too demonstrates that Cable diferences are not huge in the scheme of amps and speakers but can be night and day unto themselves.

By familiarity you can’t pick out a Stradivarius violin at a show possibly, but here a different violin and get to know them it’s quite different and you can assign night and day differences. This is a good analogy in hi Fi because picking out the dynamics of systems can take time. For instance you can hear speakers at a show, think they are good, but get them back home they may be average.

also on cable tests at shows I have been able to pick out cables between a range eg chord Sarum v chord odyssey. The difference doesn’t seem huge at the show but discernible but I suspect get the Sarum and odyssey back home on a good system, listen to it a lot and swap back and forth over hours of listening in your known environment, and the differences will probably be very marked indeed.

 

[Andrewjvt]

If cables make such a difference...
How come the internal wiring inside the speaker does not.

Let me put it another way
The internal cables inside the speakers are still thin cheap wires most of the time. How come this does not effect performance and how come you.guys are not opening up the speaker to modify?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

If cables make such a difference... How come the internal wiring inside the speaker does not.

Let me put it another way The internal cables inside the speakers are still thin cheap wires most of the time. How come this does not effect performance and how come you.guys are not opening up the speaker to modify?

pass .... me personally I am not bothered what’s inside the speaker as long as it sounds good but I have seen a YouTube video showing Dali speakers being made and shows quite thick cable being used inside the dali opticon’s but get your point being made but probably why different cables sound different maybe down to resistance at a guess ? Different thickness of copper give a different resistance

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

If cables make such a difference... How come the internal wiring inside the speaker does not.

Let me put it another way The internal cables inside the speakers are still thin cheap wires most of the time. How come this does not effect performance and how come you.guys are not opening up the speaker to modify?

because I wouldn’t want to possibly trash my speakers by opening them up. Void the warranty. And the extent to which internal wiring in speakers is cheap bellwire , is not always the case, as sometimes cable firms work in association with the speaker manufacturers. Or they use decent quality cable that just works with the speaker crossover and drivers.

But id hazard a guess it’s more to do with design. The wood no doubt has a damping effect on all the electrical and radio frequency noise, not least of which the runs of cables in speakers is limited maybe only 75 cm in mine, but speaker cables are external laid flat and often can be up to 5 metres so no doubt can act as aerials to attract nose. Cable inside doesn’t need huge shielding effects.

And anyway I think you’ve subverted it again by bringing it back to a debate about expensive and cheap cables which always tends to happen, when it’s not such a debate, as good performing speaker cables need not be any more expensive than the cables used inside the speakers. Just the right type and picking the right type. It’s an interesting question about what they use inside and I might ask pmc in relation to mine.

And also your assertion fails too on the point you make a connection that the cables they use don’t affect performance, perhaps assuming the designers are all correct to get best performance, but how do you know using different internal cables don’t make performance better. As a similar illustration I know someone who was r3commended by naim not to use power conditioners as he was told their power supplies are all you need - katching - notwithstanding the fact some naim users on the forum found off market power conditioners better than naim power supplies.

 

[Andrewjvt]

If cables make such a difference... How come the internal wiring inside the speaker does not.

Let me put it another way The internal cables inside the speakers are still thin cheap wires most of the time. How come this does not effect performance and how come you.guys are not opening up the speaker to modify?

because I wouldn’t want to possibly trash my speakers by opening them up. Void the warranty. And the extent to which internal wiring in speakers is cheap bellwire , is not always the case, as sometimes cable firms work in association with the speaker manufacturers. Or they use decent quality cable that just works with the speaker crossover and drivers. 

But id hazard a guess it’s more to do with design. The wood no doubt has a damping effect on all the electrical and radio frequency noise, not least of which the runs of cables in speakers is limited maybe only 75 cm in mine, but speaker cables are external laid flat and often can be up to 5 metres so no doubt can act as aerials to attract nose. Cable inside doesn’t need huge shielding effects.

And anyway I think you’ve subverted it again by bringing it back to a debate about expensive and cheap cables which always tends to happen, when it’s not such a debate, as good performing speaker cables need not be any more expensive than the cables used inside the speakers. Just the right type and picking the right type. It’s an interesting question about what they use inside and I might ask pmc in relation to mine. 

And also your assertion fails too on the point you make a connection that the cables they use don’t affect performance, perhaps assuming the designers are all correct to get best performance, but how do you know using different internal cables don’t make performance better. As a similar illustration I know someone who was r3commended by naim not to use power conditioners as he was told their power supplies are all you need - katching - notwithstanding the fact some naim users on the forum found off market power conditioners better  than naim power supplies. 

The wires used inside ATC speakers at the factory