Micro Hifi Denon

[davedotco]

You say that you understand 'that positioning and setup is one of the most important things' yet when faced with the audible consequencies of not paying attention to 'positioning and setup', you say you do not understand why...*unknw*

There is another factor too, micro systems are packaged with 'matching' speakers for a reason, they will be easy to drive and control and have limited bass output so suffer less when placed on a table or shelf.

Because of their extra complexity real budget speakers like the 2010i are harder to drive and, more importantly, harder to control, the Denon is probably at it's limits trying to drive them.

They also produce deeper bass, so will resonate on the table and sound muddy, all rather predictable.

Solution? Either make room for stands and get the positioning right or get the Denon speakers to sit on the table, ideally with some sort of decoupling.

 

[Jfil]

One of the recommended speakers for this micro system from Whathifi were qacoustics 2020i.

Maybe I should have opted by a more sensible and easier to drive speaker like cambridge audio SX50.

 

[davedotco]

One of the recommended speakers for this micro system from Whathifi were qacoustics 2020i.

Maybe I should have opted by a more sensible and easier to drive speaker like cambridge audio SX50.

I think you are making too much of this, expecting too much as it were.

The D-M40 is a sub £200 micro system, it's capabilities are limited. As I said above, simpler speakers will help, as will proper setup. It is all cumulative.

With it's bundled speakers it can be placed on a shelf and it will be made to sound reasonable, the capabilities of the amp match the demands of the speaker which in turn will not lose a lot by being placed on a shelf/desktop (though proper stands will still help).

Replace the speakers with more demanding, more serious models and the amplifier is overworked, control is lost, the speakers not properly supported, the sound unbalanced.

I know this is all a bit new, but what you are experiencing is entirely predictable, a compedent dealer could have explained and/or demonstrated this to you.

 

[Jfil]

So no point in upgrading speakers even If they are recommended match for the ceol amp... I should have bought a separate amp like denon pma520 or cambridge audio azur 340a and I would be more satisfied...

 

[davedotco]

It is about balance and cost.

If you want all the functionality and facilities, then an all in one system is the way to go for the money, if on the other hand you can work with something simpler, then better sound is available.

My desktop system cost less than £200, it has been used as a 'main' system for a while on new (£60) stands. It sounds ridiculously good for the money, no 'sources' as such, I stream from my laptop or iThings.

Getting good sound on a tight budget is not difficult, even buying new, if you prioritise and spend the money where it matters you will be surprised what you can achieve.

 

[Jfil]

May I ask you what is your desktop setup? I think the Denon Ceol has great sound and it has enough power but the Bundle speakers lack scale because they are só tiny. I would like to improve that.

 

[davedotco]

Lack of power and control.

This is why the music does not get out of the speakers and into the room, 'better' speakers are not really the solution, they most likely will make things worse.

My desktop system is an Apple Airport Express (£59 refurb store) and a pair of small active speakers, currently available at £90 pr. Jack to phono leads about £15. I used desktop stands (£30 Audioengine) but recently replaced them with £60 Atacama floorstands, spiked onto pennies on a wooden floor. I use blutack to fix the speakers to the stands and stream from my laptop or iThing.

If I was doing it again, I would probably use a Chromecast Audio for Spotify. If I was spending £300-400 I would buy a Teufel Connect streamer/preamp (£129) and a pair of better speakers, Presonus Eris 5 (£200) plus some phono cables. About £350 all up, plus stands.

 

[Jfil]

So you have active speakers. What brand/model? I don't think active speakers have better amplifier that my Denon has. I have also tried some active speakers, from Mackie and I wasn't impressed. I think better speakers and stands would work. My amp is a class D amp rated at 60w RMS 4ohm, active speakers use the same kind of amp

 

[Gazzip]

I would like to have the opporunity to upgrade at least the bundled speakers and have an amp that would sound good with some tannoy mercury v1i or q-acoustics 2010i.

However both of your speaker choices will need to be partnered with a good pair of stands to get the best out of them.

Repeat. Before you do anything else try a pair of desktop stands with bluetak decoupling the speakers from their top plates. There is very little wrong (for the money) with what you bought.

 

[davedotco]

So you have active speakers. What brand/model? I don't think active speakers have better amplifier that my Denon has. I have also tried some active speakers, from Mackie and I wasn't impressed. I think better speakers and stands would work. My amp is a class D amp rated at 60w RMS 4ohm, active speakers use the same kind of amp

Dirt cheap and remarkably good for the money.

These... https://www.studiospares.com/Headphones-and-Speakers/Studio-Monitors/Studiospares-SN4A-Active-Studio-Monitors_248050.htm

Until the last few days they were on offer at £90 pr, which is what I paid 2-3 years back. I mentioned them because they are a similar size to the 2010i and both have 4 inch bass drivers.

Ultimately, the 2010i are probably better speakers, but for that to be the case you will need an amplifier in the £200-300 range minimum.

However as always, it is your system, your money and your choice. I know what I prefer and why, you need to try different options and see what works for you.

 

[Jfil]

Could you point some not very expensive speaker desk standmounts?

 

[Gazzip]

Could you point some not very expensive speaker desk standmounts?

Have a look at Isoacoustics L8R130's at £63 a pair from Studiospares.

 

[davedotco]

Could you point some not very expensive speaker desk standmounts?

Have a look at Isoacoustics L8R130's at £63 a pair from Studiospares.

I have had some success with the Audioengine ones, like so...

https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/5687/audioengine-ds2-desktop-wedge-stands-for-a5-amp-p4-speakers&source=Froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_campaign=Froogle&utm_content=ADE-DS2?gclid=CNH_-OvE2csCFY4y0wodfawFZA

That is the larger of the two models, the smaller one is a £5 cheaper. Check the dimensions against your speakers.

 

[Jfil]

By the way i think in the future i will buy some active speakers for my computer. I have seen two models that seem well regarded, Presonus eris 4.5 and m-audio av40. Which one is better?

 

[davedotco]

By the way i think in the future i will buy some active speakers for my computer. I have seen two models that seem well regarded, Presonus eris 4.5 and m-audio av40. Which one is better?

Neither are active speakers, they are powered passives.

And neither are paricularly good. The speakers imentione and linked to above are much better.