market research.. yay or nay?

[admin_exported]

if you don't already own active speakers, would you like the option of buying whatever speakers you do own, in active form?

i mean like the AVI's, fully active, with a built in dac, and preamp, a remote (preferably one with an lcd volume level), and custom made amplification.

and how much above the current price of your speakers would you be prepared to pay for the privelage? assuming your in the yay camp

i'd defo buy some active dm 2/7s if they were the right price (for my budget), i paid e600 (euros), hmmmm, i recon at a grand, even e1100, i'd bite...

any views on this?

 

[Anonymous]

actually, couldn't they add in wifi? all you'd need is a laptop and electricity

 

[plastic penguin]

Nope - why would I want an 'active' version of my RS6s? This would mean dismantling years of enjoyment, and who's to say 'active' version would be as good as the passive ones?

As I've always said: If it ain't broke...

 

[WinterRacer]

Well having switched from passive to active, I would definitely say active is better for SQ, so yes, the more manufacturers that offer active the better as far as I'm concerned.

Good as the AVIs are, competition is a good thing and at the moment they seem to have the market to themselves.

 

[Anonymous]

Nope - why would I want an 'active' version of my RS6s? This would mean dismantling years of enjoyment, and who's to say 'active' version would be as good as the passive ones? As I've always said: If it ain't broke...

not sure what you mean by dismantling, etc pp? i don't think anyone would expect a company to make an active speaker that would sound worse than the passive version, surely it would sound at least as good (and most probably better) as it's passive stablemate?

the built in amplification would be "designed and built purely for that speaker", no need for amp swapping to find the right synergy.

 

[plastic penguin]

I wouldn't want to "dismantle" or sell the boxes that I love. I love the thrill of going to individual boxes (tuner, CDP, TT etc) and hearing something magic. I'm not talking about the Leema, Arcam, but just the fact you can go to different boxes and hear something speacial. Old skool? most certainly.

IMHO to go to active speakers just breaks that golden rule (as I see it) and it would leave me feeling there was a void somehow. I've not heard actives - and I'm sure they are very good - but I wouldn't swap my boxes for something that lacks visual appeal.

Hope this drivel makes sense.

 

[Olli1324]

Active speakers have a number of technical advantages making their performance per pound exceptional, and probably often better than a passive equivalent.

I'm half way through converting my speakers to fully active so I suppose once I have done that I'll be able to see whether all the technical advantages really do match up with better performance. I'm also going to hack my Diamond 9.1s eventually and see what they sound like when active - should be an interesting experiment.

 

[chebby]

...but I wouldn't swap my boxes for something that lacks visual appeal. Hope this drivel makes sense.

Not that bit.

How can all those boxes (and cables) look better than fewer boxes, or none at all?

 

[plastic penguin]

...but I wouldn't swap my boxes for something that lacks visual appeal. Hope this drivel makes sense.

Not that bit.

How can all those boxes (and cables) look better than fewer boxes, or none at all?

To me, yes...

If I was starting out now for the first time I'd look at active or all-in-one systems, still like the look of boxes and wires. Can't see that changing with me...

 

[Anonymous]

I personally wouldn't want my ProAc's to be made active. I can't see the majority of people wanting their current speakers made active either. One thing you need to remember here is that speakesr are optimised for how much air is in the cabinet behind them, if you alter that at all, you're chaning the sound of that driver (If you were thinking of making a go of converting speakers for a bit of pocket change).

The reason I wouldn't like it is that I wouldn't want someone to choose my amplifier for me. For example, I can run my ProAc's very well off of my A3 integrated. If I want the extra control and slam, I can hook up the A370 power amp and give the ProAc's a good hammering with that, though on occasion the A370 is a little harsh with them. I wouldn't like it if someone were to choose my amplifier for me and say "Right, you're stuck with it.". Unless the amplifiers you put into the speaker were incredibly good with absolutely teriffic current output, I would always rather have the passive verson. Changing the source (between current models anyway) doesn't hold a great deal of variability in the sound of your system whereas the speaker and amplifier pairing does. If you're going to straight up accuracy then active may be an option but if it's for enjoyment, I believe amplifier and passive speaker is the winner.

 

[Anonymous]

I know what you mean PP, when I took the decision to go active while waiting for them to be built & shipped I was a little unsure about the visual side of giving up the power amps...stand...wiring & the general big impressive hifi look...but the sound well executed actives achieve FAR FAR outways the loss in visuals & interactive touch of many boxes IMO, every single thing that a good passive speaker is capable of is trounced in every area, it is a big decision to take at least for me it was when time & money have been spent building a good passive system...but as long as I enjoy music I will never go passive for my main stereo, just my opinion anyway

Cheers
Benny.

 

[plastic penguin]

Plus I would assume I'd need to spend a lot of money to achieve the same or better SQ than my current set-up. I've heard vastly more expensive systems that isn't as good as my current flock. Sure, for neutrality or accuracy of sound it can be bettered around the 3k mark, but for everyday listening it's hard to beat.

 

[Bodfish]

I think there are some interesting points here, not just about sound quality but also how you combine that with day to day usability and how a system fits in to your living environment. My current system comprises of eight boxes, five mains cables, four interconnects plus speaker cable and the speakers themselves. The system is housed in another room away from my main living area - it is simply too intrusive to be in that space.

I will shortly be 'downgrading' my system to a single box plus speakers which will allow me to bring the hifi back into the main living space.

Apologies to the OP, slightly off topic.

 

[Andrew Everard]

You're becoming the Zelig of this forum, Max.

 

[plastic penguin]

You're becoming the Zelig of this forum, Max.

Not sure Woody Allen would like the comparison.

 

[Olli1324]

I personally wouldn't want my ProAc's to be made active. I can't see the majority of people wanting their current speakers made active either. One thing you need to remember here is that speakesr are optimised for how much air is in the cabinet behind them, if you alter that at all, you're chaning the sound of that driver (If you were thinking of making a go of converting speakers for a bit of pocket change).

I'm not sure what relevance air has to do with it - in my case at least, I am going to have the active crossovers, pre amp and power amps in 2 separate enclosures. This also means that I will still have a number of boxes maintaining that perhaps geeky but quite desirable look of a load of boxes. The power amp enclosure will dwarf my current amp and weigh about 15kg. Now THAT is an upgrade!

I understand the point about not being able to choose the amplification, but (again, my case only) I have chosen extremely high quality amps with plenty of oomph. Remember that when you actively power your speakers, the power perceived by the speakers is vastly greater than the same speaker would see from the same amp in a passive set up.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Remember that when you actively power your speakers, the power perceived by the speakers is vastly greater than the same speaker would see from the same amp in a passive set up.

so what. you only get bigger dynamic range. do you really enjoy listening to music at home at 120dB volume level. if so then active set up is the way to go indeed

many people listen to music from low power class A amps and they don't complain for lack of "ooomph". it's not the watts that really counts.

 

[The_Lhc]

so what. you only get bigger dynamic range.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[Craig M.]

i've often wondered why most aren't more keen on actives, for myself it was a lack of understanding of why actives are nearly always better than passives. There is no reason to lose cabinet volume if converting passives to active, bolt the amp to the back of the speaker - as a lot of active makers do. it's pretty simple really, if your passive speakers where correctly converted to active, they would be better.

 

[jaxwired]

If the SQ was better than I'd buy them. I just cannot imagine them sounding better than what I have now. And I agree with PP, I've heard many systems that cost more and sound much less impressive than my current system.

The downside to actives for me is, no option to experiment and upgrade amps, need electricity to each speaker which can be a hassle.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Monstrous and PP are perfect examples as to why the active market will never take over. Many people like what they have, and enjoy the journey getting there. Others feel the amplifier choice is made for them, and want that choice to make for themselves. It matters not if active IS better or not - it's down to personal preference. Many people will more than likely hear an active version of what they have and not like it.

 

[Anonymous]

Monstrous and PP are perfect examples as to why the active market will never take over. Many people like what they have, and enjoy the journey getting there. Others feel the amplifier choice is made for them, and want that choice to make for themselves. It matters not if active IS better or not - it's down to personal preference. Many people will more than likely hear an active version of what they have and not like it.

why's that david?

 

[Anonymous]

Monstrous and PP are perfect examples as to why the active market will never take over. Many people like what they have, and enjoy the journey getting there. Others feel the amplifier choice is made for them, and want that choice to make for themselves. It matters not if active IS better or not - it's down to personal preference. Many people will more than likely hear an active version of what they have and not like it.

why's that david?

Like me and PP, many people have tried different amps and such, to achieve the sound they enjoy (read: Not most accurate) through their speakers. I think that's what David was getting at anyway.

Re: the 'Air' thing. I've designed a few speakers myself and unless you make sure that the crossover network you remove is replaced with one exactly the same size, you will be changing how the driver sounds. Drivers are often modified or chosen because of how they work in the enclosures in which they are placed. The best way to read about this is to look up how subwoofers are designed, the same applies to midrange and bass drivers, tweeters are a different story entirely.

Edit: The best way to active-convert your speakers would be to do it the way Linn do it, with the active crossover cards outside the actual speaker cabinet. That's if you were DIY'ing it, I mean.

 

[chebby]

So do you dislike the 'idea' of active speakers (because maybe you feel they would undermine the the skill and effort and money you have invested in putting together a system) or did you dislike the sound of the actual active speakers you have heard?

 

[Anonymous]

So do you dislike the 'idea' of active speakers (because maybe you feel they would undermine the the skill and effort and money you have invested in putting together a system) or did you dislike the sound of the actual active speakers you have heard?

For me personally, it's that it doesn't give me as much leverage with regards to tuning a system for my liking. I don't feel that it undermines how much effort I have put in, as finding actives I like would be just as much of a step as finding another bit of kit I like.

The actives I've heard previously have been very well balanced with good extension, however I've felt that the ones I've heard, even the best ones I've listened to, the Linn Klimax 350as, lacked the image I experienced through the B&W 802D's with Classe powering them. That said they had a distinct naturalness to them, acoustic guitars did sound impressive. I've yet to 'seriously' audition any ATC's so I've not fully made my mind up yet if I'll get a pair of 802D's this year, or the ATC SCM50A's, I'll see how the listening tests go.