Kef ls50w vs AVI DM10 vs ATC scm19

[radiorog]

Thanks for the interesting read. Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget. But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature. The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity. I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy. Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player.

Thanks for reading! I am now envious of anyone with ATC speakers. Clearly a true step into HiFi! I did actually really like the Kefs, and if I didnt have the opportunity to listen side by side, I prob would have guessed they were as good as any £2000 passive speaker.

 

[radiorog]

radiorog, is your next step to audition the ATC 19's against your Dynaudio 2/7's to determine if they are worth the approximate £1600 upgrade cost?

Absolutely Lindsay, I have been offered a home demo and will def do this if I get closer to buying.

 

[radiorog]

Hi radiorog

Thanks for your thoughts *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks Rick!

 

[radiorog]

Your findings with the Kefs were very similar to mine. Initially sounding very, very good, but soon exposed as not all that special. However you have to remember that you are getting remote control amps, DAC, streamer and speakers for under £2K. Albeit that the streamer was not fit for purpose when I had the LS50W’s on home demo... ATEOTD the Kefs were never going to compete with the ATC’s when you consider what is bundled with the LS50W’s...

This is the power of marketing. I have heard one online reviewer declare that the LS50W’s are the best he has heard South of $15K for a passive alternative, which is frankly laughable. The problem is that some people actually believe this guff.

Hey Gazzip, yeah, better than £15000 passive speakers is clearly ludicrous, and really must reflect badly on the reviewer. I did forget to mention in the write up that we went through the gapless playback thing with the Kef's, and the assistant was aware of this slightly it seemed, but surprised when we extensively looked at the reality of this with various streaming services. We tried Qobuz and Tidal, and found that when not put through the Kef's, Qobuz was gapless playback (which Tidal wasnt), but put through the Kef's, the gapless playback was gone. Playing albums such as Pink Floyd and classical would therefore create interuptions between tracks, not as intended to be heard. Even if the sound quality was as good as the ATC's, this feature I think would have put me off anyway.

 

[radiorog]

I've never heard the kef's, but have read most of their reviews. To be honest, I was expecting the kef to come out on top, considering that the ATC's were paired with a Rotel. I could'nt have been more wrong.

Most of the life-style shoppers, will still be blown by the sound quality of the kef's, when heard in a boutique store. And they are most likely to buy blind without audition.

Agreed, and dont get me wrong, they do sound very good. If you have a budget of £2000 for everything, they would be a very good purchase.

 

[radiorog]

Next off were the AVI's. These sounded very similar straight off as far as could tell as far as clarity and defintion were concerened, but they were obviously lacking the warmth of the Kefs and I knew pretty much immediately that I would require the sub to go with these, which I dont have room for, and so these were ruled out pretty quickly.

Agreed.

Eek!

Head for the hills.

Going back a few years, I wonder how different some of the AVI/active threads would have been if it had been possible then to have this demo. Althogh this is just one listener's view, it is very interesting all the same. The opportunity to demo together somewhat removes the hype two of these products have, partly fueled by the fact that they could only be demoed on their own previously.

Agreed. Tehy did sound great, and if you arent a fan of bass, they might be ideal. But without the sub, they didnt sound realistic to me. Music needs the lower registers for me, as this is how it sounds in real life.

 

[radiorog]

Shame you couldn't listen to AE's new active standpoint too.

Yep, I would def like to hear these too, and will keep my eyes open. Have you heard the AE's and the Kefs?

 

[radiorog]

Choices come down to requirements, and here you basically have three different speakers that will suit different people/situations. Many active loudspeakers still fall into the normal categories of hi-fi as they require more boxes to use them. The LS50 Wireless is a solution - integral TIDAL and Spotify streaming, wireless streaming from tablets, phones, and other Bluetooth products. The AVI needs external sources, and the SCM19s not only need sources but amplification as well. I wouldn’t really say there is any need to compare the KEF and AVI, but I appreciate some might just do it anyway.

One aspect that has to be taken into account is the set up. With most active speakers, there’s not much to mess about with other than placement, but via the app, the LS50 Wireless has an array of parameters to tailor to the room (or to personal preference). Get this wrong and they’ll be underperforming.

We did have a play with the app and the speaker set up, and we seemed to be listening to a relatively optimal level. Again, it is a shame that the Kef's cannot play gapless, this seems like a major oversight.

 

[davidf]

I’m sure it’ll be sorted in a future software update.

 

[radiorog]

Thanks for the interesting read. Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget. But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature. The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity. I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy. Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player.

does the i32 have enough power of your ATC as I want the ATC but I thought I might need more power for the 40

Hi Seemor, I have also been considering the EB2's as a possible upgrade, and was curious to how you find them. Didnt you have dynaudio emit 20's before? If so, how do the EB2's and emits compare please?

 

[drummerman]

Shame you couldn't listen to AE's new active standpoint too.

 Yep, I would def like to hear these too, and will keep my eyes open. Have you heard the AE's and the Kefs?

Unfortunately not.

 

[radiorog]

Shame you couldn't listen to AE's new active standpoint too.

Yep, I would def like to hear these too, and will keep my eyes open. Have you heard the AE's and the Kefs?

Unfortunately not.

What is your current setup DM? Are you still rocking the Cyrus or did you get the AE's?

 

[Infiniteloop]

This is at least the second time I’ve seen you recommend Devialet Cno. When did you get to hear one and what were your impressions?

I haven't.

I was going by the fact that he enjoyed the ATCs with Rotel, which is clean and neutral....so to me, it was a natural recommendation to try (given everything that I've read about it).

Never heard Devialet with ATC’s, but Devialet and Sonus Faber is a match made in heaven......

 

[drummerman]

Shame you couldn't listen to AE's new active standpoint too.

 Yep, I would def like to hear these too, and will keep my eyes open. Have you heard the AE's and the Kefs?

Unfortunately not.

 What is your current setup DM? Are you still rocking the Cyrus or did you get the AE's?

Well, I do this every year around this time (Summer I do 'serious cycling' and loose all interest in hifi).

I was looking at some actives for space saving reasons though I really like my old Cyrus stuff for sound and small form factor, hence why I have not progressed.

The AE1 appeal though I appreciate I still need a pre-amp. Cyrus springs to mind .

 

[nopiano]

Thanks for the interesting read. Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget. But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature. The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity. I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy. Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player.

does the i32 have enough power of your ATC as I want the ATC but I thought I might need more power for the 40

I think it’s plenty, though a more obvious match would be ATC’s own integrated amp, which the shop demoed mine with. Our living room is about 7m by 3.5 metres, and the listening spot is about halfway back the long length, though I often listen as background from the far end. I’ve not found them sensitive to position as they seem to disperse evenly. They aren’t that insensitive and are a quite easy load, but because they lack distortion it’s easy to wind up the volume without appreciating just how loud it is!

 

[Gazzip]

I’m sure it’ll be sorted in a future software update.

David, you need to stop defending Kef on this. It undermines your credibility. The product doesn’t work properly so should not therefore be for sale currently as a streamer/network player. Perhaps this issue would have been more appropriately dealt with by Kef had they delayed the release date until it was sorted. Your flippant approach to this issue troubles me. Is that what you would tell an unhappy customer who had bought the Kefs from you expecting a resolved streaming solution?

 

[seemorebtts]

Thanks for the interesting read.  Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget.  But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature.  The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity.  I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy.  Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player. 

does the i32 have enough power of your ATC as I want the ATC but I thought I might need more power for the 40

I think it’s plenty, though a more obvious match would be ATC’s own integrated amp, which the shop demoed mine with. Our living room is about 7m by 3.5 metres, and the listening spot is about halfway back the long length, though I often listen as background from the far end.  I’ve not found them sensitive to position as they seem to disperse evenly.  They aren’t that insensitive and are a quite easy load, but because they lack distortion it’s easy to wind up the volume without appreciating just how loud it is!

excellent news

 

[seemorebtts]

Thanks for the interesting read.  Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget.  But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature.  The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity.  I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy.  Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player. 

does the i32 have enough power of your ATC as I want the ATC but I thought I might need more power for the 40

 Hi Seemor, I have also been considering the EB2's as a possible upgrade, and was curious to how you find them. Didnt you have dynaudio emit 20's before? If so, how do the EB2's and emits compare please?

the EB acoustics are alot better just because they understand what instruments sound like and the dynaudio emit m20 will add colour to them :-(

 

[radiorog]

Thanks for the interesting read. Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget. But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature. The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity. I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy. Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player.

does the i32 have enough power of your ATC as I want the ATC but I thought I might need more power for the 40

Hi Seemor, I have also been considering the EB2's as a possible upgrade, and was curious to how you find them. Didnt you have dynaudio emit 20's before? If so, how do the EB2's and emits compare please?

the EB acoustics are alot better just because they understand what instruments sound like and the dynaudio emit m20 will add colour to them :-(

Cool. What would you recommend here, upgrade to eb2, or stretch a bit further to the ATC?

 

[davidf]

I’m sure it’ll be sorted in a future software update.

David, you need to stop defending Kef on this. It undermines your credibility. The product doesn’t work properly so should not therefore be for sale currently as a streamer/network player. Perhaps this issue would have been more appropriately dealt with by Kef had they delayed the release date until it was sorted. Your flippant approach to this issue troubles me. Is that what you would tell an unhappy customer who had bought the Kefs from you expecting a resolved streaming solution?

If I was defending KEF, I’d have said “all WILL be sorted via a software update”.

If the criteria for a product being removed from sale was based on its streaming abilities and/or control app, there wouldn’t be too much left on the market.

I spent the whole of last weekend at The Home HiFi Show with the LS50 Wireless and it’s newly updated app, and there’s been some strong improvements. Whenever I turned my iPad on, it connected with the speakers without issue - never once did I have to fully close the app and open it up again. The app never crashed once either - the whole thing is far more stable than it was. The only thing I feel should be addressed now is hapless playback.

And for the record, I’ve been upfront with all customers about the app before purchase.

 

[Muddywaterstones]

I’m sure it’ll be sorted in a future software update.

David, you need to stop defending Kef on this. It undermines your credibility. The product doesn’t work properly so should not therefore be for sale currently as a streamer/network player. Perhaps this issue would have been more appropriately dealt with by Kef had they delayed the release date until it was sorted. Your flippant approach to this issue troubles me. Is that what you would tell an unhappy customer who had bought the Kefs from you expecting a resolved streaming solution?

If I was defending KEF, I’d have said “all WILL be sorted via a software update”.

If the criteria for a product being removed from sale was based on its streaming abilities and/or control app, there wouldn’t be too much left on the market.

I spent the whole of last weekend at The Home HiFi Show with the LS50 Wireless and it’s newly updated app, and there’s been some strong improvements. Whenever I turned my iPad on, it connected with the speakers without issue - never once did I have to fully close the app and open it up again. The app never crashed once either - the whole thing is far more stable than it was. The only thing I feel should be addressed now is hapless playback.

And for the record, I’ve been upfront with all customers about the app before purchase.

Hapless playback doesn't sound good at all!

 

[seemorebtts]

Thanks for the interesting read.  Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget.  But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature.  The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity.  I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy.  Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player. 

does the i32 have enough power of your ATC as I want the ATC but I thought I might need more power for the 40

 Hi Seemor, I have also been considering the EB2's as a possible upgrade, and was curious to how you find them. Didnt you have dynaudio emit 20's before? If so, how do the EB2's and emits compare please?

the EB acoustics are alot better just because they understand what instruments sound like and the dynaudio emit m20 will add colour to them :-(

 Cool. What would you recommend here, upgrade to eb2, or stretch a bit further to the ATC?

the great thing here is that you can have them home on trial and they have had a price drop to £699. I think they would sound amazing though your k3 could be a great match. With the ATC they will cost more and you will be looking at a new amp too which is a big price hike.i love the ATC scm11 and would buy them in a second and I probably will but for now I'm happy. You should give the EB acoustics a go and I think you have the amp to make them shine. I would probably get rid of your cd player and replace it with the roksan

 

[radiorog]

Thanks for the interesting read.  Earlier this year I went though a similar process with passive speakers, and with a slightly higher budget.  But came to a similar conclusion as you can see in my signature.  The ATCs speak for themselves with their precision and integrity.  I’m sure if you choose the 19s you’ll be very happy.  Having said that I loved the wireless KEFs I heard at the Bristol Show in February fed direct from a Zen player. 

does the i32 have enough power of your ATC as I want the ATC but I thought I might need more power for the 40

 Hi Seemor, I have also been considering the EB2's as a possible upgrade, and was curious to how you find them. Didnt you have dynaudio emit 20's before? If so, how do the EB2's and emits compare please?

the EB acoustics are alot better just because they understand what instruments sound like and the dynaudio emit m20 will add colour to them :-(

 Cool. What would you recommend here, upgrade to eb2, or stretch a bit further to the ATC?

the great thing here is that you can have them home on trial and they have had a price drop to £699. I think they would sound amazing though your k3 could be a great match. With the ATC they will cost more and you will be looking at a new amp too which is a big price hike.i love the ATC scm11 and would buy them in a second and I probably will but for now I'm happy. You should give the EB acoustics a go and I think you have the amp to make them shine. I would probably get rid of your cd player and replace it with the roksan

So do you think the Roksan wouldn't be enough for the ATC? I am wondering myself. Although it has more watts than the rotel used in demo.
When you say you'd replace the cd player with the Roksan, what do you mean? Buy the Roksan cd player, or replace the cd player and the amplifier together?

 

[lindsayt]

There was someone on this forum who had a Roksan CD player that tried a £40 used Marantz CD48. He preferred the sound of the Marantz CD48. This was no surprise to me after reading what Lampizator had to say about the Marantz on his website.

 

[insider9]

There was someone on this forum who had a Roksan CD player that tried a £40 used Marantz CD48. He preferred the sound of the Marantz CD48. This was no surprise to me after reading what Lampizator had to say about the Marantz on his website.

I believe it's Knaithrover and he's still using CD48.