Mains leads

[idc]

JoelSim:Well the missus thinks I'm a saddo, so I haven't told her...

She signed for the delivery today though, and hasn't asked what it is yet. No doubt she will ask tomorrow but as I furtively put it in whilst she was putting the baby to bed I may just get away with it.

It's difficult to describe, but it's like someone has added 5 feet to the height of the studio where it was recorded.

These are the tweeter extensions that I use to impress the ladies....................................................

....they are Townhsend Audio Maximum Supertweeters, they cost £782.98p and are in stock now at Russ Andrews. Get your wife to sign for them now. Could she also sign for some stuff from abroad that I am ordering? Just get the men to leave the crate round the back and I'll get some mates to pick it up later. Thanks.

 

[eternaloptimist]

This should be easy to sort out!

If you hear such a difference, can I propose a test:

A couple of mates, a clipboard a spreadsheet, your best audiophile cable and a $20 sturdy kettle lead should have this cleared up in a couple of hours.

1 mate randomly changes the mains leads (between your best lead and a kettle lead - or even between a 3 "audiophile leads" setup and 3 kettle leads on your gear as above) as per a randomly generated sequence (many ways to do this, even lucky dip envelopes!)

2nd mate ushers you in and out of the room, starts the CDs etc without seeing mate 1.You record which cable you think is being used.

If you can pick which lead(s) is(are) being used after, say, 20 changes, at a rate above chance then I will run naked across Hyde park (will need to book airline ticket first, though!)

I still call what you are experiencing the "spendibo effect" i.e. if you have spent a fortune on it, you will hear a difference.

 

[idc]

eternaloptimist:

This should be easy to sort out!

If you hear such a difference, can I propose a test:

A couple of mates, a clipboard a spreadsheet, your best audiophile cable and a $20 sturdy kettle lead should have this cleared up in a couple of hours.

1 mate randomly changes the mains leads (between your best lead and a kettle lead - or even between a 3 "audiophile leads" setup and 3 kettle leads on your gear as above) as per a randomly generated sequence (many ways to do this, even lucky dip envelopes!)

2nd mate ushers you in and out of the room, starts the CDs etc without seeing mate 1.You record which cable you think is being used.

If you can pick which lead(s) is(are) being used after, say, 20 changes, at a rate above chance then I will run naked across Hyde park (will need to book airline ticket first, though!)

I still call what you are experiencing the "spendibo effect" i.e. if you have spent a fortune on it, you will hear a difference.

Eternaloptomist, you are not going to get much mileage out of this because there was a recent thread on blind testing that did not end so well; http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/231445.aspx

 

[JoelSim]

eternaloptimist:
This should be easy to sort out!

If you hear such a difference, can I propose a test:

A couple of mates, a clipboard a spreadsheet, your best audiophile cable and a $20 sturdy kettle lead should have this cleared up in a couple of hours.

1 mate randomly changes the mains leads (between your best lead and a kettle lead - or even between a 3 "audiophile leads" setup and 3 kettle leads on your gear as above) as per a randomly generated sequence (many ways to do this, even lucky dip envelopes!)

2nd mate ushers you in and out of the room, starts the CDs etc without seeing mate 1.You record which cable you think is being used.

If you can pick which lead(s) is(are) being used after, say, 20 changes, at a rate above chance then I will run naked across Hyde park (will need to book airline ticket first, though!)

I still call what you are experiencing the "spendibo effect" i.e. if you have spent a fortune on it, you will hear a difference.

ÿ

The thing is, it would be easy. No placebo effect is needed. As I said before, if I hadn't noticed a significant difference then I would be selling it on for the price I paid. Absolutely no chance of that, you'd have to fight me for them. In fact if I'd have paid double, I would still be chuffed. The Shiva will be with me for a while now, probably the next 10 years, which works out at 2p per day.

ÿ

 

[JoelSim]

idc:JoelSim:Well the missus thinks I'm a saddo, so I haven't told her...
She signed for the delivery today though, and hasn't asked what it is yet. No doubt she will ask tomorrow but as I furtively put it in whilst she was putting the baby to bed I may just get away with it.

It's difficult to describe, but it's like someone has added 5 feet to the height of the studio where it was recorded.

These ar the tweeter extensions that I use to impress the ladies....................................................

ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ

....they are Townhsend Audio Maximum Supertweeters, they cost £782.98p and are in stock now at Russ Andrews. Get your wife to sign for them now. Could she also sign for some stuff from abroad that I am ordering? Just get the men to leave the crate round the back and I'll get some mates to pick it up later. Thanks.

Very nice, but I doubt they will make a difference to the sound you hear as only dogs can hear that high ÿ

The non-believers really should listen; it can only be done properly when you are familiar with a sound to the nth level, rather like tea tasting.

ÿ

 

[Don Guess]

JoelSim:eternaloptimist:
This should be easy to sort out!

If you hear such a difference, can I propose a test:

A couple of mates, a clipboard a spreadsheet, your best audiophile cable and a $20 sturdy kettle lead should have this cleared up in a couple of hours.

1 mate randomly changes the mains leads (between your best lead and a kettle lead - or even between a 3 "audiophile leads" setup and 3 kettle leads on your gear as above) as per a randomly generated sequence (many ways to do this, even lucky dip envelopes!)

2nd mate ushers you in and out of the room, starts the CDs etc without seeing mate 1.You record which cable you think is being used.

If you can pick which lead(s) is(are) being used after, say, 20 changes, at a rate above chance then I will run naked across Hyde park (will need to book airline ticket first, though!)

I still call what you are experiencing the "spendibo effect" i.e. if you have spent a fortune on it, you will hear a difference.

ÿ

The thing is, it would be easy. No placebo effect is needed. As I said before, if I hadn't noticed a significant difference then I would be selling it on for the price I paid. Absolutely no chance of that, you'd have to fight me for them. In fact if I'd have paid double, I would still be chuffed. The Shiva will be with me for a while now, probably the next 10 years, which works out at 2p per day.

ÿ

Er.. do you know what "placebo effect" means..

 

[JoelSim]

Don Guess:JoelSim:eternaloptimist:
This should be easy to sort out!

If you hear such a difference, can I propose a test:

A couple of mates, a clipboard a spreadsheet, your best audiophile cable and a $20 sturdy kettle lead should have this cleared up in a couple of hours.

1 mate randomly changes the mains leads (between your best lead and a kettle lead - or even between a 3 "audiophile leads" setup and 3 kettle leads on your gear as above) as per a randomly generated sequence (many ways to do this, even lucky dip envelopes!)

2nd mate ushers you in and out of the room, starts the CDs etc without seeing mate 1.You record which cable you think is being used.

If you can pick which lead(s) is(are) being used after, say, 20 changes, at a rate above chance then I will run naked across Hyde park (will need to book airline ticket first, though!)

I still call what you are experiencing the "spendibo effect" i.e. if you have spent a fortune on it, you will hear a difference.

ÿ

The thing is, it would be easy. No placebo effect is needed. As I said before, if I hadn't noticed a significant difference then I would be selling it on for the price I paid. Absolutely no chance of that, you'd have to fight me for them. In fact if I'd have paid double, I would still be chuffed. The Shiva will be with me for a while now, probably the next 10 years, which works out at 2p per day.

ÿ

Er.. do you know what "placebo effect" means..

Yes I do having a psychology A-level. Perhaps I phrased it wrong.

ÿ

 

[eternaloptimist]

Excellent! As you can hear a significant difference, the result should be clear cut and the video of me streaking across Hyde park posted on YouTube in no time at all!

I am honestly willing to change my skeptic position if you can demonstrate in a double blinded test that you can hear the difference. As you are certain you can hear a significant difference, you are the ideal test participant! This would give you the opportunity to prove all the skeptics wrong and could well increase the sense of being chuffed (i love this English expression - wish it were in use in Oz).

Cheers

 

[Andrew Everard]

eternaloptimist:a double blinded test

Sounds very King Lear...

 

[JoelSim]

eternaloptimist:
Excellent! As you can hear a significant difference, the result should be clear cut and the video of me streaking across Hyde park posted on YouTube in no time at all!

I am honestly willing to change my skeptic position if you can demonstrate in a double blinded test that you can hear the difference. As you are certain you can hear a significant difference, you are the ideal test participant! This would give you the opportunity to prove all the skeptics wrong and could well increase the sense of being chuffed (i love this English expression - wish it were in use in Oz).

Cheers

ÿ

Happy to.

Not seeing you naked though. That doesn't appeal.

Unless you're female of course.

ÿ

 

[Andrew Everard]

Nah, too many horses in Hyde Park likely to get frightened.

 

[survivor]

eternaloptimist:

Can I be facetious.... and suggest a good sturdy kettle lead?

Tried one once but it made my system whistle.

 

[JoelSim]

survivor:eternaloptimist:
Can I be facetious.... and suggest a good sturdy kettle lead?

Tried one once but it made my system whistle.

Stu, the hifi is really singing these days. It's nice.

ÿ

 

[Andrew Everard]

I'm fascinated by the emphasis on a 'sturdy' kettle lead. Is this a tacit acknowledgement that a weedy kettle lead wouldn't sound as good?

 

[JoelSim]

Yes

ÿ

 

[Alec]

Joel, are you, perchance, heterosexual? And i bet my certificate's bigger than your cerificate.

Sorry, but come on...

 

[idc]

eternaloptimist: Excellent! As you can hear a significant difference, the result should be clear cut and the video of me streaking across Hyde park posted on YouTube in no time at all!

I am honestly willing to change my skeptic position if you can demonstrate in a double blinded test that you can hear the difference. As you are certain you can hear a significant difference, you are the ideal test participant! This would give you the opportunity to prove all the skeptics wrong and could well increase the sense of being chuffed (i love this English expression - wish it were in use in Oz).

Cheers

So the results of one test by the elernaloptomist and Joel will be the be all and end all conclusive proof that mains cables do or do not not make a difference. Now I know why you are called the eternaloptomist, good luck!

 

[JoelSim]

idc:eternaloptimist: Excellent! As you can hear a significant difference, the result should be clear cut and the video of me streaking across Hyde park posted on YouTube in no time at all!
I am honestly willing to change my skeptic position if you can demonstrate in a double blinded test that you can hear the difference. As you are certain you can hear a significant difference, you are the ideal test participant! This would give you the opportunity to prove all the skeptics wrong and could well increase the sense of being chuffed (i love this English expression - wish it were in use in Oz).

Cheers

So the results of one testÿby the elernaloptomist and Joel will be the be all and end all conclusive proof that mains cables do or do not not make a difference. Now I know why you are called the eternaloptomist, good luck!

LOL!

ÿ

 

[survivor]

JoelSim:survivor:eternaloptimist:

Can I be facetious.... and suggest a good sturdy kettle lead?

Tried one once but it made my system whistle.

Stu, the hifi is really singing these days. It's nice.

If it`s sounding even better than before I doubt you`ll want to go to bed tonight! Glad you`re so pleased with it Joel.

 

[JoelSim]

It is a bit like that, although CD has just finished. What to choose. Hmmm.

ÿ

 

[Thaiman]

Joel, I was a sceptic but now i am not. Good luck with the hunt and ignor any common sense and trust your ears.

 

[JoelSim]

Mezzanine. Perfect.

ÿ

 

[eternaloptimist]

I like the sound of the phrase: "sturdy kettle lead"

Obviously a lead that has good standard plugs at both ends making good connections that don't lose connection if jiggled etc. would be reasonable - fortunately, these are supplied with any decent kit!

 

[Tear Drop]

eternaloptimist:I am honestly willing to change my skeptic position if you can demonstrate in a double blinded test that you can hear the difference

So you are willing to change your perception of something based upon [/i]somebody else's experiences[/i] and not your own? The validity of your arguments on this issue seem close to non-existant.

And why do the so-called 'cable skeptics' always insist on others performing blind or double blind tests rather than doing them for themselves (which they clearly haven't)?

 

[Anonymous]

I've been thinking about this - because the cost of these leads does seem ridiculous - or, at least, the very existence of a market for them strikes me as somewhat preposterous. I personally would never spend on them - but not simply because I am skeptical of the net benefits to sound that such an investment would accrue. Rather, my main problem is that I can always find something better to buy. Such as - new music! Or if not "new" precisely, then different and new-to-me music. However I will admit to having an insatiable appetite for music and although I do love to revisit stuff I've owned for years my preference is for discovering music I haven't heard before.

In light of this I regard myself as first and foremost a lover of music rather than sound. And for this reason I will always find it very difficult to suppress a sneer at those who would invest so much in so little. Especially when there's music to be buying.

These comments not withstanding, I will freely admit to being interested in the differences that can be detected between changed components. Having some vague and exceptionally amateurish experience in recording studios I can definitely vouch for the notion that incremental changes in signal paths can make audible differences.

However - and this is an important point for me - in the absence of a clear means of comparative A/B listening I can say with confidence that I would be unable to detect the difference that a power lead would make in a signal chain. A before-and-after kind of test would prove useless to me as I'm simply unable to recall (even after several seconds) the exact nature of a given sound. What I need is an A/B test that switches between sources simultaneously, as it were. Such a test is - at least in the domestic setting - most easy to do when comparing speakers. It being possible to wire up to sets and switch between them on some amps.

More or less every other test involves unplugging, futzing with and generally faffing around - by which time my memory has failed to retain those microscopic nuances that differentiate two signal paths / sources etc. Consequently I'm often a little skeptical of those who claim to be able to "remember" such differences. But then, and as I said, it's not "sound" that interests me so much as music. I listen to my records - not the stuff that's playing them. Or at least, I err on that side of things.