mains cables

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]

Why on earth do you bother coming back repeatedly?

[/quote]

Because he like's a lively debate with lots of neutral participants..

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="jimwall"] highly unlikely to actually have any influence whatsoever on his opinion.[/quote]

LOL there is a lot of negetivity on this forum (not you).

I agree that funding the socket closest to the distribution board is a must or have a dedicated consumer unit fitted just for your hifi. And yes mains filters etc make more difference than cables. Some so called quality cables do not warrant their price and some do. Thats where the people at What hifi and other magazines come in + your own ears.
I personally like the sound when using Russ Andrews mains leads with their RF canceling weave. I find the audio becomes less aggressive with better resonance to bass etc,the sound somehow becomes slower (even though it is not)
Also with regards to quality mains extensions, these are designed to extend the socket in your wall with hopefully no losses. Where the cheapo ones really do degrade as the contacts are very poor.
Give the Russ andrews leads a try on a 30day money back trial and see what you think.
Brent

 

[Anonymous]

OK, what effect do the noise and spikes have on audio?

Mains noise give you that 'HIFI' sound. That hard edged sound that becomes fatiguing, it robs the audio of delicate treble and certainly robs it of natural resonance in the bass. Vocals become smoother and less ear grating with good leads and filters. Bass is more one note too thanks to noise.
Brent

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="jimwall"]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]

Why on earth do you bother coming back repeatedly?

[/quote]

Because he like's a lively debate with lots of neutral participants..

[/quote]

The number of times he's signed in under different names, he is most of the participants.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Sid Rumpo"][quote user="rowemeister"]Mains noise give you that 'HIFI' sound. That hard edged sound that becomes fatiguing, it robs the audio of delicate treble and certainly robs it of natural resonance in the bass. Vocals become smoother and less ear grating with good leads and filters. Bass is more one note too thanks to noise.[/quote]

I have lovely sound on mine with no dressed up mains leads or fancy filters anywhere. Mains noise and short duration spikes of the sort you are talking about are crushed to oblivion in the PSU of any amplifier and one note bass effects can only be caused by poor speakers. Even my mains radio has no interference which it surely would pick up if there was a problem.

You are talking about a cure for a disease that doesn't exist.[/quote]

OMG!!!!

Maybe you 'Think' it sounds really good. You know it maybe all in 'your head' also.

Your radio will not have interference, its purely created at audio level not signal level. I really think you should go away and read about electronic circuits and what effects different noise etc has on different circuit for the benefit of the forum

With regards to my own system running with or without mains filtration it is obvious to anyone that hears it which sounds better and I don't think my ATC speakers are poor at all.

Brent

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Sid Rumpo"][quote user="rowemeister"]Mains noise give you that 'HIFI' sound. That hard edged sound that becomes fatiguing, it robs the audio of delicate treble and certainly robs it of natural resonance in the bass. Vocals become smoother and less ear grating with good leads and filters. Bass is more one note too thanks to noise.[/quote]

I have lovely sound on mine with no dressed up mains leads or fancy filters anywhere. Mains noise and short duration spikes of the sort you are talking about are crushed to oblivion in the PSU of any amplifier and one note bass effects can only be caused by poor speakers. Even my mains radio has no interference which it surely would pick up if there was a problem.

You are talking about a cure for a disease that doesn't exist.[/quote]

I bet it sounds poop! Grainy, thuddy, with no air or dynamic range. This is the sound you have when you ignore the needs of proper supports, mains treatment and connections. One day your ears will be opened, if they're not full of wax.

Simon

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Sid Rumpo"][quote user="rowemeister"]

Your radio will not have interference, its purely created at audio level not signal level.[/quote]

Sort of psychological?[/quote]

Yes Lumpo. I have opened my eyes now.

Thank you for your wonderful intresting and helpful advice

Please keep it up

Brent

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Sid Rumpo"][quote user="Simonty"]I bet it sounds poop! Grainy, thuddy, with no air or dynamic range. This is the sound you have when you ignore the needs of proper supports, mains treatment and connections. One day your ears will be opened, if they're not full of wax.[/quote]

IOW praise the Lord, for one day every knee shall bend.

I have sand filled stands for my speakers and a solid cabinet for the rest on a solid concrete floor. Everyone that hears it says it sounds great.

Isn't enjoyment what hifi's all about? It isn't about wasting money is it?[/quote]

Some people will say doing what you have done is a waste of money (not me). What do you say to them?

Brent

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anonymous"][quote user="Simonty"]I bet it sounds poop! Grainy, thuddy, with no air or dynamic range. This is the sound you have when you ignore the needs of proper supports, mains treatment and connections. One day your ears will be opened, if they're not full of wax.[/quote]

I have sand filled stands for my speakers[/quote]

Oh dear, the classic "it's heavy so it's scientific" approach. Try a bit more reading and a bit less flaming please.

Simon

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Anonymous"][quote user="Andrew Everard"]Why on earth do you bother coming back repeatedly?[/quote]

Why on earth do you keep banning me?[/quote]

Because you've repeatedly broken most of the house rules of this forum, and by asking why you keep being banned you've a) confirmed you are who we thought you are and b) broken another rule: "members must not question the decision of the site's moderators to edit
or remove posts or profiles, or begin a discussion in any forum about
such actions."

This really has become very tiresome, and we're all wasting a lot of time pandering to your ego, when we could be using that time to help other readers with their problems. Please desist.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anonymous"][quote user="rowemeister"]Some people will say doing what you have done is a waste of money (not me). What do you say to them?[/quote]

I did it as cheaply as i could without sacrificing the sound quality.[/quote]

Lol very good

One thing I never mentioned before was mains impeadance. This has a large effect on the dynamic sound. At work we equipment for testing local loop (mains impeadence) and we can also measure the continuity of wires using a continuity tester (not to be confused with a multimeter).
First of all the mains loop (from socket to sub station and back again) at our building is 0.14 ohms. I then get a standard mains lead and measure each wire (L N E) and they are usually 0.3 - 0.5 ohms per wire.
Thats higher than the impeadence of the local loop!!!!!
Changing to the test leads I had (Russ Andrews Reference) I tested again over the same 1meter length and the impeadence was 0.00 - 0.01 ohms. Therefore not adding any extra resistance to the mains.
This is where good cables also help
With note to the loop tester the test was carried out @ 26amps and the continuity tester nulls its own leads and tests @ 200mA
Brent

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Sid Rumpo"]
[quote user="rowemeister"]

First of all the mains loop (from socket to sub station and back again) at our building is 0.14 ohms. I then get a standard mains lead and measure each wire (L N E) and they are usually 0.3 - 0.5 ohms per wire.

Thats higher than the impeadence of the local loop!!!!!

[/quote]

Which will cause a completely undetectable and insignificant IR voltage drop, far less than the sag under load of the average unregulated PSU. So what? If you were worried you could have used a thicker kettle type lead and saved yourself a wad of cash.

[/quote]

Sid all i'm trying to do is show I have done tests for people
I have two questions for you
#1 - Have you ever tried a good mains cable on your cd and/or amp (for more than a few mins)?
#2 - Have you ever actually experimented and come back with any tests that actually prove cables DON'T work?
It's all very well saying things don't work. But can you prove it!
Brent

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Sid Rumpo"][quote user="rowemeister"]

#1 - Have you ever tried a good mains cable on your cd and/or amp (for more than a few mins)?

#2 - Have you ever actually experimented and come back with any tests that actually prove cables DON'T work?

[/quote]

My cables do work already. 100%. Changing them to a pretty make won't change that because they aren't in the signal path. What is there to hear? The idea is absurdist nonsense.

[/quote]

I expected that 'my way or the highway' answer. Very disappointed indeed.

By the way 50Hz is a 'signal' which also carries noise on it at different frequencies. The 50Hz is a carrier for the other frequencies

Brent

 

[Thaiman]

Where is Daren from Clearer Audio? He is fairly hot come to engineering.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes their cables do well in tests

Brent

 

[Thaiman]

This thread is still going! Put it this way guys if you can hear the improvement then good luck to you and when I can hear any improvement I "promise" I will tell the world. I will spend the rest of my hifi life advertising whether it'a a clearer audio, nordost or whatever products. As it stand at the moment I am a power cables sceptic but don't want to debate on this matter (any more).

 

[Anton90125]

But Thaiman, nearly all the large threads on this forum have revolved around one individual who has got mixed up with science and scientific dogma. To quote physics on one hand and ignore scientific methodology on the other is not the basis of an good or fair argument. The core of science is to have a modal or theory and the say that this theory needs to be shot down by logical argument and experimentation. In doing so a better theory will be born.

Not satisfied that he was backing his view by taking science out of context went to to ridicule other view points.

When presented with a logical and scientifically based counter argument he simply sidestepped it (or ignored it). Are you surprised that this thread is this long.

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Anton90125"]Are you surprised that this thread is this long. [/quote]

No, not really :-(

But after 6..7..pages we all should know it will going no where! but Oldphart has been ban again so this thread might come to the end as by the look of thing it's only me and him that sceptic about power cables.

 

[Anonymous]

Nah mate, I'm sceptical as well, especially about just a cable that has no built in filtering. I think anything that does some filtering could, if your mains is dodgy, make a difference. I haven't done any listening tests but nearly all my leads are captive and even though it's been noted that I could hack stuff apart, that feels like at least one step too far to me.

My mind remains open - as it must since I have insufficient evidence upon which to make a judgment.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="jimwall"]

Nah mate, I'm sceptical as well, especially about just a cable that has no built in filtering. I think anything that does some filtering could, if your mains is dodgy, make a difference. I haven't done any listening tests but nearly all my leads are captive and even though it's been noted that I could hack stuff apart, that feels like at least one step too far to me.

My mind remains open - as it must since I have insufficient evidence upon which to make a judgment.



[/quote]

Two key words/themes there :

• sceptical
• mind remains open

Sadly oldpht didn't have the second ie to actually test a cable. This is where his scientific methodology fell down.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Cliff Hanger"]It just goes to show there really is one born every minute.[/quote]

Sounds like you are back "Oldpht" ?

I have never tested mains cables my self but ( in the interests of keeping a scientifically open mind) am preparid to test it. before passing judgement

The really sad people are those who do pass judgement without testing it first. There are several of those born every minute. I am not sure if thats a hoot or something profoundly sad.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Anton90125"]

Sounds like you are back "Oldpht" ?

[/quote]

Can't be - that would be ban-dodging, and the user would get deleted instantly if that was happening...

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Cliff Hanger"]Nowadays so many of the assertions in the realms of audiophoolery are too impossibly stupid to bother to test.[/quote]

Well weather what is stupid and what is not is a subjective assessment.

This is why we test things

Maybe the biggest bit phoolery is not knowing this

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Cliff Hanger"]http://www.g8wrb.org/useful-stuff/audiophools.pdf[/quote]

Just because Mr Emmerson said something which you agree with proves exactly what ?

[quote user="Cliff Hanger"]not about properly testing anything.[/quote]

Ever heard of Double Blind Testing?

I think Oldphrt has a twin??? Maybe???

A small bit of advise,please let people have their opinions like you have yours and don't imply that they are stupid because it differs from yours.