Looking for a good subwoofer

[Blacksabbath25]

RS will play up the talents of the Rel and play down that of the SVS....and will of course get you to set the whole thing up and try it. There is always the chance that you will keep the Rel out of avoiding further hassel.

If you have decided you want the SVS, just send the Rel back unopened...this is taken from the their returns policy:

Your statutory rightsUnder the Consumer Contracts Regulations, you may return goods and obtain a full refund of the cost of the good/s you have ordered, provided you notify Richer Sounds of your intention to do so within 14 days of the date of receipt by you (in the case of a multiple order, within 14 days of receiving the last item). You will then have a further 14 days to return the goods from this notification date. We will aim to send you a full refund within 14 days of receiving the goods from you. Richer Sounds will pay the cost of any basic return delivery or postage costs for goods you want to return. Please note if you have selected one of our premium delivery options, these additional costs will not be refunded. For further information on your right to return goods, please click on this link to the Which? Consumer Rights website.

They are not SVS dealers, so thank them for their help and give David a ring.

I will have to take delivery of the Rel first but as soon as I get it I will take it back to the store unopened and get a refund

 

[bigboss]

Interesting for Richer Sounds to comment on performance of SVS subwoofers without having any experience of selling them!

As Cno suggests, it's better to return it unopened and order SVS separately from an authorised retailer like David.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Interesting for Richer Sounds to comment on performance of SVS subwoofers without having any experience of selling them!

As Cno suggests, it's better to return it unopened and order SVS separately from an authorised retailer like David.

i will do just take some time that's all

 

[Vladimir]

I'd try both subs. Loud.

If Black likes the REL more than the SVS it's not a wrong decision. It would be wrong if he passes on the Rel untested, buys the SVS, doesn't like it and sticks with it.

 

[davidf]

i left it now as I have no choice to try the Rel and if I do not like it they said they will do a special order on a SVS SB2000 from one of there suppliers .

Firstly, RS aren't an SVS dealer, so can't sell SVS with an official warranty. If they were, they'd have them on their website.

They said they have had no complaints about the Rel T71 and when I talked about the SVS sub they said it was not all about power just because the SVS sub is 500wtts it depends on how define the SVS is and not just about noise and then I said it will go down lower then the Rel they said you probably would not hear that difference we can sell you the Dali k14 £950 which is 500watts and the same inputs as the SVS .

To get a subwoofer to dig deep takes a few things, other than being well designed of course. It needs a good quality driver that is capable of cleanly reproducing the frequencies aimed for. Secondly, it needs enough amplifier power to reach those lower frequencies and keep the driver under control at such high excursions - it doesn't matter if it was an 18" driver, 200w isn't going to allow it to reach anywhere near as deep as it is capable of, and even if it did, there'd be very little control at those lower frequencies. So power does matter. Some manufacturers tend to put in lower powered amplifiers because the average sub buyer isn't interested in how deep it'll reach, most are after a matching wood finish. It doesn't need to shake the house, it just needs to make itself known. That's actually not what you want!

A subwoofer should be so clean sounding that you can't tell where the sub is. It should sound like the sub bass is coming from the speakers in the room. If it's not, it's either not very well set up, or it's producing distortions that are giving away its location. Or possible because it's been placed right be the side of the sofa, where you can't fail to hear/feel where it is. Many times I can't tell if mine is actually on, until I hear a deep note that I know the speakers cannot reach!

Inputs and outputs are irrelevent as long as it has the inputs and outputs you need, which usually boils down to a single RCA input.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

i left it now as I have no choice to try the Rel and if I do not like it they said they will do a special order on a SVS SB2000 from one of there suppliers .

Firstly, RS aren't an SVS dealer, so can't sell SVS with an official warranty. If they were, they'd have them on their website.

They said they have had no complaints about the Rel T71 and when I talked about the SVS sub they said it was not all about power just because the SVS sub is 500wtts it depends on how define the SVS is and not just about noise and then I said it will go down lower then the Rel they said you probably would not hear that difference we can sell you the Dali k14 £950 which is 500watts and the same inputs as the SVS .

To get a subwoofer to dig deep takes a few things, other than being well designed of course. It needs a good quality driver that is capable of cleanly reproducing the frequencies aimed for. Secondly, it needs enough amplifier power to reach those lower frequencies and keep the driver under control at such high excursions - it doesn't matter if it was an 18" driver, 200w isn't going to allow it to reach anywhere near as deep as it is capable of, and even if it did, there'd be very little control at those lower frequencies. So power does matter. Some manufacturers tend to put in lower powered amplifiers because the average sub buyer isn't interested in how deep it'll reach, most are after a matching wood finish. It doesn't need to shake the house, it just needs to make itself known. That's actually not what you want!

A subwoofer should be so clean sounding that you can't tell where the sub is. It should sound like the sub bass is coming from the speakers in the room. If it's not, it's either not very well set up, or it's producing distortions that are giving away its location. Or possible because it's been placed right be the side of the sofa, where you can't fail to hear/feel where it is. Many times I can't tell if mine is actually on, until I hear a deep note that I know the speakers cannot reach!

Inputs and outputs are irrelevent as long as it has the inputs and outputs you need, which usually boils down to a single RCA input.

thanks David

ones I get sorted with a refund I will give you a ring

 

[jjbomber]

when say it will go lower on the SVS then the ReL is that for music or moves or both is it a notable difference ?

REL for music any day of the week. They have always been designed by Richard Lord for bass. He was a classical musician and very unhappy about the bass sound generated by music. So he decided to build his own subwoofer, to get the musical bass he was after. His first subwoofer was a massive 'sideboard' that took up the whole bay window of his house. Luckily enough they are a lot smaller now.

As always with hi-fi, only you can decide which is best for you. It is the very nature of this site that people think what is best for them is best for everyone. Ultimately though, only you can decide what's best for you.

 

[CnoEvil]

REL for music any day of the week. They have always been designed by Richard Lord for bass. He was a classical musician and very unhappy about the bass sound generated by music. So he decided to build his own subwoofer, to get the musical bass he was after. His first subwoofer was a massive 'sideboard' that took up the whole bay window of his house. Luckily enough they are a lot smaller now.

As always with hi-fi, only you can decide which is best for you. It is the very nature of this site that people think what is best for them is best for everyone. Ultimately though, only you can decide what's best for you.

I was a big fan of the old Rel Subs....I nearly bought a Storm 5....but I don't think the current Rels have much to do with Richard Lord.

I have heard a few modern Subs....and the best ones had/have very powerful Class D amps (1000W+ ) and long throw drivers made from very strong materials.

....and I made it quite clear it was the OP's decision and money.

If you rate the old Rel design....then BK makes sense at half the money.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

REL for music any day of the week. They have always been designed by Richard Lord for bass. He was a classical musician and very unhappy about the bass sound generated by music. So he decided to build his own subwoofer, to get the musical bass he was after. His first subwoofer was a massive 'sideboard' that took up the whole bay window of his house. Luckily enough they are a lot smaller now.

As always with hi-fi, only you can decide which is best for you. It is the very nature of this site that people think what is best for them is best for everyone. Ultimately though, only you can decide what's best for you.

I was a big fan of the old Rel Subs....I nearly bought a Storm 5....but I don't think the current Rels have much to do with Richard Lord.

I have heard a few modern Subs....and the best ones had/have very powerful Class D amps (1000W+ ) and long throw drivers made from very strong materials.

....and I made it quite clear it was the OP's decision and money.

If you rate the old Rel design....then BK makes sense at half the money.

I used to own a REL Strata III Subwoofer years ago and back then I thought it was very good sub I think I paid £750 for it brand new in black from seven oaks the only issue I had with it was the green light went wrong on it but worked fine .

so I was surprised how small they have become over the years

 

[CnoEvil]

so I was surprised how small they have become over the years

It is very powerful amps driving cones with large movement.....that can shift a lot of air from an infeasibly small cabinet. Even the Storm 5 (model up from the Strata) only had around 200W. At the time I went for a Velodyne SPL 1200R, which was 1000W (2000W dynamic power).

 

[jjbomber]

....and I made it quite clear it was the OP's decision and money.

I'm including myself in the list as well. We all do it, it's part of human nature, and I'm as bad as anyone else. What is right for us must be right for the rest of the World! I have a REL sub for music duties. It may not be approved by Arnold Schwarzenegger for films, but my passion is music. So naturally I would recommend them for music. Don't take everything personally, especially if it comes from me!

 

[Blacksabbath25]

so I was surprised how small they have become over the years

It is very powerful amps driving cones with large movement.....that can shift a lot of air from an infeasibly small cabinet. Even the Storm 5 (model up from the Strata) only had around 200W. At the time I went for a Velodyne SPL 1200R, which was 1000W (2000W dynamic power).

I see the Rels use class A-B amplifier inside and the SVS uses class D amplifier which class D is meant to be better for bass so I take it that Rel uses the class A-B because it's better for music and good for films ?

 

[Vladimir]

so I was surprised how small they have become over the years

It is very powerful amps driving cones with large movement.....that can shift a lot of air from an infeasibly small cabinet. Even the Storm 5 (model up from the Strata) only had around 200W. At the time I went for a Velodyne SPL 1200R, which was 1000W (2000W dynamic power).

I see the Rels use class A-B amplifier inside and the SVS uses class D amplifier which class D is meant to be better for bass so I take it that Rel uses the class A-B because it's better for music and good for films ?

Nope. The REL needs less power, it is a smaller sub. SVS is bigger and better in every aspect, including music. Going Class D is practical to keep things compact (WAF).

 

[Blacksabbath25]

so I was surprised how small they have become over the years

It is very powerful amps driving cones with large movement.....that can shift a lot of air from an infeasibly small cabinet. Even the Storm 5 (model up from the Strata) only had around 200W. At the time I went for a Velodyne SPL 1200R, which was 1000W (2000W dynamic power).

I see the Rels use class A-B amplifier inside and the SVS uses class D amplifier which class D is meant to be better for bass so I take it that Rel uses the class A-B because it's better for music and good for films ?

Nope. The REL needs less power, it is a smaller sub. SVS is bigger and better in every aspect, including music. Going Class D is practical to keep things compact (WAF).

I went to look at the Rel website and there is a section on there site where you can put what speakers you own I put mine in and it never came up with the Rel T7i it came up with Rels flagship £1500 sub and that only had 400watt amplifier but had bigger drivers and bigger cabinet .

so the Rel T7i is not really cutout for my Dali opticon 8s

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm including myself in the list as well. We all do it, it's part of human nature, and I'm as bad as anyone else. What is right for us must be right for the rest of the World! I have a REL sub for music duties. It may not be approved by Arnold Schwarzenegger for films, but my passion is music. So naturally I would recommend them for music. Don't take everything personally, especially if it comes from me!

Nothing taken personally at this end...though I do try to be objective, listen to what the OP wants and advise accordingly....more a "food for thought" approach, than a "get this" one.

 

[Vladimir]

so I was surprised how small they have become over the years

It is very powerful amps driving cones with large movement.....that can shift a lot of air from an infeasibly small cabinet. Even the Storm 5 (model up from the Strata) only had around 200W. At the time I went for a Velodyne SPL 1200R, which was 1000W (2000W dynamic power).

I see the Rels use class A-B amplifier inside and the SVS uses class D amplifier which class D is meant to be better for bass so I take it that Rel uses the class A-B because it's better for music and good for films ?

Nope. The REL needs less power, it is a smaller sub. SVS is bigger and better in every aspect, including music. Going Class D is practical to keep things compact (WAF).

I went to look at the Rel website and there is a section on there site where you can put what speakers you own I put mine in and it never came up with the Rel T7i it came up with Rels flagship £1500 sub and that only had 400watt amplifier but had bigger drivers and bigger cabinet .

so the Rel T7i is not really cutout for my Dali opticon 8s

It's -6dB at 30Hz and your Dali's are -3dB at 38Hz. The sub will litterally sit there mute with nothing to add.

 

[ellisdj]

With a movie sub you want one that has genuine bass extension not early roll off.

Some subs start rolling off at 40-50hz and rely on room gain to give a better spec figure but in reality will never have the puff or output in the ulf range to give clean bass.

The reason that is important is because within a certain volume limit subs will sound alike in your room.

They are largely separated by their output capability spl and freq extension and distortion we are not as sensitive to bass distortion.

So if your planning on high spl you need one or more big subs with a lot of clean spl.

If your thinking lower volumes you def want a sub with better extension not early roll off.
Bkxls400 rolls off too early really for movies as does that Rel. Svs push for freq extension in their sealed subs as their more movie orientated.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

With a movie sub you want one that has genuine bass extension not early roll off.

Some subs start rolling off at 40-50hz and rely on room gain to give a better spec figure but in reality will never have the puff or output in the ulf range to give clean bass.

The reason that is important is because within a certain volume limit subs will sound alike in your room.

They are largely separated by their output capability spl and freq extension and distortion we are not as sensitive to bass distortion.

So if your planning on high spl you need one or more big subs with a lot of clean spl.

If your thinking lower volumes you def want a sub with better extension not early roll off. Bkxls400 rolls off too early really for movies as does that Rel. Svs push for freq extension in their sealed subs as their more movie orientated.

hi mate thanks for that

I've got to ask you a question I looked last night at your home cinema setup on your web page and see your running 2 SVS subs the ultra ones which are a lot bigger the the SVS SB2000 why do you have 2 as the SVS ultras are quite power subs .

your floor standing speakers are just as big as my Dali opticon 8s so it's making me think maybe the SVS SB2000 will not be right for my opticon' s but I want the sub for films only as my opticon' s for music are fine without the need to add a sub .

 

[Vladimir]

With a movie sub you want one that has genuine bass extension not early roll off.

Some subs start rolling off at 40-50hz and rely on room gain to give a better spec figure but in reality will never have the puff or output in the ulf range to give clean bass.

The reason that is important is because within a certain volume limit subs will sound alike in your room.

They are largely separated by their output capability spl and freq extension and distortion we are not as sensitive to bass distortion.

So if your planning on high spl you need one or more big subs with a lot of clean spl.

If your thinking lower volumes you def want a sub with better extension not early roll off. Bkxls400 rolls off too early really for movies as does that Rel. Svs push for freq extension in their sealed subs as their more movie orientated.

But I think this movies vs music concept is a myth. A good sub does what you just now said, linear flat and clean sound at satisfactory SPLs. If it remains +-6db from 20Hz-200Hz that is good for all program, music or movies. It can integrate well with the rest of the system.

What about accurate tone reproduction? At the prices these modern subs commend I expect them all to have timbral nuances for instruments to come off genuine. Otherwise I'd go with a cheap 18" DJ PA reinforcement sub and just shake the room when Batman blows up something. Under 200 quid we have a concern about tonnal accuracy, but at 800, it is expected.

 

[davidf]

Once you get to something of the quality of the SVS subs, it's less of an issue as to whether it is good for music too. My AV system doubles as my hi-fi, hence the Classe Sigma SSP pre/processor, and when looking for a sub, it had to cope with movies and music, as I usually use smaller speakers in my room - although depending on the speakers I'm using, I'll just use them full range in a 2.0 config anyway. But when I do use the sub for music, it has to show all the qualities it does for movies, only more. For movies, it needs punch, depth, and authority, but not draw any attention to itself - this becomes even more important for music listening, as if you're aware of the sub for any reason, the illusion is shattered, or hampered, depending on your outlook.

There are still subs that are more ideal for films than music though, their strengths being ultimate depth and output, but it costs. And usually due to high bass driver excursions, tend to lose out a little on timing or impact. Whilst the idea of a subwoofer is getting as deep as possible, there are other aspects that are more important for a believable and convincing performance.

 

[bigboss]

With a movie sub you want one that has genuine bass extension not early roll off.

Some subs start rolling off at 40-50hz and rely on room gain to give a better spec figure but in reality will never have the puff or output in the ulf range to give clean bass.

The reason that is important is because within a certain volume limit subs will sound alike in your room.

They are largely separated by their output capability spl and freq extension and distortion we are not as sensitive to bass distortion.

So if your planning on high spl you need one or more big subs with a lot of clean spl.

If your thinking lower volumes you def want a sub with better extension not early roll off. Bkxls400 rolls off too early really for movies as does that Rel. Svs push for freq extension in their sealed subs as their more movie orientated.

hi mate thanks for that 

I've got to ask you a question I looked last night at your home cinema setup on your web page and see your running 2 SVS subs the ultra ones which are a lot bigger the the SVS SB2000 why do you have 2 as the SVS ultras are quite power subs  .

your floor standing speakers are just as big as my Dali opticon 8s so it's making me think maybe the SVS SB2000 will not be right for my opticon' s but I want the sub for films only as my opticon' s for music are fine without the need to add a sub  .

The SB2000 will be more than adequate for your needs. Obviously the SB13 ultra will be better, but that is way beyond your budget.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

With a movie sub you want one that has genuine bass extension not early roll off.

Some subs start rolling off at 40-50hz and rely on room gain to give a better spec figure but in reality will never have the puff or output in the ulf range to give clean bass.

The reason that is important is because within a certain volume limit subs will sound alike in your room.

They are largely separated by their output capability spl and freq extension and distortion we are not as sensitive to bass distortion.

So if your planning on high spl you need one or more big subs with a lot of clean spl.

If your thinking lower volumes you def want a sub with better extension not early roll off. Bkxls400 rolls off too early really for movies as does that Rel. Svs push for freq extension in their sealed subs as their more movie orientated.

hi mate thanks for that

I've got to ask you a question I looked last night at your home cinema setup on your web page and see your running 2 SVS subs the ultra ones which are a lot bigger the the SVS SB2000 why do you have 2 as the SVS ultras are quite power subs .

your floor standing speakers are just as big as my Dali opticon 8s so it's making me think maybe the SVS SB2000 will not be right for my opticon' s but I want the sub for films only as my opticon' s for music are fine without the need to add a sub .

The SB2000 will be more than adequate for your needs. Obviously the SB13 ultra will be better, but that is way beyond your budget.

yep £1700 for the ultra is a lot of money but bet it's pretty good

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The Rel has arrived but not opening it I will take it back this afternoon

 

[ellisdj]

Out for day please bear with me will reply soon as can

 

[davidf]

The SB2000 will be more than adequate for your needs. Obviously the SB13 ultra will be better, but that is way beyond your budget.

And much bigger!