Latest speaker group test

[Pistol Pete1]

Clare Newsome:Pistol Pete1:

I, and others, have heard the KEF 'Q' series, and I know that people are buying them instead of MA RX's, B&W 600 series, etc. All are 5 star products.

Totally respect the opinion of anyone who's heard the speakers and decided to buy them - enjoy

But to refer to them as five-star products (in a specific WHF sense) is something only our test team can do. We obviously love the Q300 speakers - they got five stars in both their First Test and a Group Test, beating some tough competition from just the ranges your mention, but we simply didn't feel (again, after much comparative listening) that the Q700 speakers are as impressive.

If it's comparative, did you judge these speakers and award them 3 stars when comparing them to 'like-priced' speakers?

With only 5 pairs of speakers in your 121 reviews online awarded the two stars, it suggests these speakers are possibly the 6th worst set of speakers you have reviewed......

Obviously I'm aware that there are 29 3 star reviews on here, but some of these makes are not very well knowned as speaker makers.....

It's just my personal opinion, but I don't think the Q700's should be part of that 'club', after hearing them in action.

 

[BenLaw]

FrankHarveyHiFI:Did they know the conditions of the test beforehand?

Clare Newsome:

I'd need to ask the test team that. But it's irrelevant - if we'd had both sets of KEFs in, they would have gone in the test if they'd both fit the price/size criteria.

Fact is, we simply didn't rate the KEF Q700 speakers as above average - that would have been the same if we'd reviewed them as a standalone First Test; the star rating and conclusions would have been exactly the same.

I'm puzzled as to why people are being so defensive!

Can't be that puzzled Clare

 

[Clare Newsome]

Pistol Pete1:
If it's comparative, did you judge these speakers and award them 3 stars when comparing them to 'like-priced' speakers?

With only 5 pairs of speakers in your 121 reviews online awarded the two stars, it suggests these speakers are possibly the 6th worst set of speakers you have reviewed......

Obviously I'm aware that there are 29 3 star reviews on here, but some of these makes are not very well knowned as speaker makers.....

It's just my personal opinion, but I don't think the Q700's should be part of that 'club', after hearing them in action.

All our reviews are comparative - whether First Tests or Group Tests- with range of rivals in size/price class. And not from memory, either - that's why we keep such a large stock of products on site.

I admire your passion for the KEFs, but I fear you're over-analysing the outcome of our test, which is merely our opinion based on a range of listening over a good few days.

As i've said previously, if other people have a different opinion, thats fine.

 

[matthewpiano]

Anybody who is happy with what they have really shouldn't be that bothered about what the reviews say. If you are satisfied that is all that matters.

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Fair enuf, Clare. Thanks for your response's on this topic.

Off to listen to my Q500's now.....

 

[psurquhart]

Question to the What Hi Fi team please.

Why is it that every time you do a speaker test you never throw any of the excellent PMC speakers into the mix when you do group tests ?

You didnt again for this one and yet I think they deserve to be thrown into the mix ?

I must say i am rather biased towards PMC having be a massive fan of my GB1's and DB1's.

Would have thought the newer GB1's would have fitted in perfectly to the description of compact floorstanders and also within the group tests price range ( although at the higher end of that budget ).

Would be nice to see how the newer PMC's fair against their modern rivals ?

 

[Frank Harvey]

BenLaw:I'm puzzled as to why people are being so defensive1

Like Pete, I'm not really being defensive, just puzzled. Four stars I can understand, but three? Only one person I've demonstrated them too wasn't too keen on them, and to be honest, that day, I'd agree with them - they didn't knock me out. But all other demos I've done, no on has disliked them, even if they purchased another manufacturer (which has been rare). In general, people are loving these new speakers.

I will agree, I wasn't overly keen on the previous iQ range myself. But if I'd the choice of the Q700's and the iQ90's, I'd take the Q700's every time. In fact, if the Q700's were an amplifier, they'd be a Naim Nait 5i. Some may not "get it", but those that do love it, an what it does, it does so much better than the competition, including the highly rated ones.

Usually, whenever a speaker is panned by What Hi-Fi like this (iQ50 - which received 4 stars by the way), they normally bomb in stores. Take from that what you will, but I'm convinced these speakers are going to buck that unfair trend.

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Just been listening to Fleetwood Mac, Norah Jones and Faithless.......

Wow, these Q500's sound truely amazing with Norah Jones...the detail and vocal presence!!

And Faithless, and their complex 'electronic' sound underpinned with high tempo thumping bass....

David...I think your right. I can see this speaker range 'bucking that trend' too.....

 

[Clare Newsome]

Pete, please remember this discussion is about the Q700 speakers, not your Q500s - which we haven't yet tested. You may as well quote many of the superlatives we showered on the Q300s...

For the last time WE ARE NOT ATTACKING YOUR CHOICE OF SPEAKER

 

[Clare Newsome]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
Usually, whenever a speaker is panned by What Hi-Fi like this (iQ50 - which received 4 stars by the way), they normally bomb in stores. Take from that what you will, but I'm convinced these speakers are going to buck that unfair trend.

It is indeed unfair - considering the time and effort we take to insist people listen for themselves.

Again, fair play to your loyalty to the KEF brand, David - manufacturers need more dealers like you.

(PS Assume you approve of the T-Series review

)

 

[Frank Harvey]

It's not really loyalty to KEF, I'd be saying the same about any speaker I think has been highly under-rated. I feel the range in general is setting new standards for detail at their price points, particularly the Q300 and Q900, and the range as a whole has a rare ability to sound three dimensional, even with lesser recordings, which very few speakers seem to achieve.

I haven't read the T series review myself.

 

[chebby]

People who shop for hifi on the basis of WHF 5 Star 'stickers' (and other mag related blurb that dealers litter their shelves with) tend to be first timers who lack the confidence to buy what they think sounds best regardless of review scores.

I don't think KEF Q700s fall into that first-time/budget system* category.

*More than one dealer has explained to me that they simply don't make enough money from budget gear to give valuable shelf/floor space to anything but a few 5 star items that they know will sell.

 

[Clare Newsome]

FrankHarveyHiFi:Did they know the conditions of the test beforehand?

Clare Newsome:

I'd need to ask the test team that. But it's irrelevant - if we'd had both sets of KEFs in, they would have gone in the test if they'd both fit the price/size criteria.

Fact is, we simply didn't rate the KEF Q700 speakers as above average - that would have been the same if we'd reviewed them as a standalone First Test; the star rating and conclusions would have been exactly the same.

OK, have had confirmation that KEF didn't know the Q700s were going in that test - but then we rarely talk much about the details of tests with the industry; when we have kit avaialble to test, we choose where it goes.

As in my post above, however, that fact still doesn't effect the review outcome, however, as we heard/tested that pair.

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Clare Newsome:

Pete, please remember this discussion is about the Q700 speakers, not your Q500s - which we haven't yet tested. You may as well quote many of the superlatives we showered on the Q300s...

For the last time WE ARE NOT ATTACKING YOUR CHOICE OF SPEAKER

Are the Q500's to be reviewed then?

The Q300's are irrelevant in this discussion, because the reviewers issue was with the ABR's, and as the Q300's have none they can't be compared to.

Saying that, it is safe to presume (until a review of the Q500 is done by someone) that the same issue may be apparent on the Q500's....same design, just smaller cones involved.

Finally, I can't remember suggesting you were 'attacking my choice of speaker'........slightly defensive, don't you think.....

 

[Andrew Everard]

We'd certainly like to review the Q500s - whether or not we are able to is really in KEF's court...

 

[Clare Newsome]

Pistol Pete1:Clare Newsome:

Pete, please remember this discussion is about the Q700 speakers, not
your Q500s - which we haven't yet tested. You may as well quote many of
the superlatives we showered on the Q300s...

For the last time WE ARE NOT ATTACKING YOUR CHOICE OF SPEAKER

Are the Q500's to be reviewed then?

The Q300's are irrelevant in this discussion, because the reviewers
issue was with the ABR's, and as the Q300's have none they can't be
compared to.

Saying that, it is safe to presume (until a review of the Q500 is done by someone) that the same issue may be apparent on the Q500's....same design, just smaller cones involved.

Finally, I can't remember suggesting you were 'attacking my choice
of speaker'........slightly defensive, don't you think.....

Not defensive, merely weary

And yes, the Q300s are irrelevant in this discussion, which was my very point (hence my phrase of 'you may as well' - ie 'for all the relevance it bears')

And please don't start second-guessing how we'd review the Q500s - that way madness lies

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Not second-guessing....as I used the word (and underlined) 'may'.........

Thanks for your replies......

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Andrew Everard:We'd certainly like to review the Q500s - whether or not we are able to is really in KEF's court...

Guess it'll depend on how they react to this review and the fact they were not told the full details, as suggested by Clare.......

 

[Andrew Everard]

Pistol Pete1:Guess it'll depend on how they react to this review and the fact they were not told the full details, as suggested by Clare.......

Indeed on the first point, but regarding the second, it's not a matter of not being told the full details: manufacturers submit products for review and, depending on what tests we have 'on the go' at the time, the product may go straight into a group test, or may get a standalone First Test.

Whichever happens, the product will receive the same testing, and the same verdict.

 

[Big Chris]

Pistol Pete1:

Andrew Everard:We'd certainly like to review the Q500s - whether or not we are able to is really in KEF's court...

Guess it'll depend on how they react to this review and the fact they were not told the full details, as suggested by Clare.......

They knew they were sending samples for review didn't they? What's the difference if they were tested against 1, 5, 35 other speakers? A test is a test is a test surely.

 

[Pistol Pete1]

It's a group test, so sending the correct speaker for that does matter.....

As mentioned in this discussion, the KEF XQ30's would have been a better choice for this occasion.....it's compact and of a similar pricepoint...

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, I agree so much defensive attitude.

EDITED BY MODS - what happens on other forums is of no concern here

Considering the amount of 'rave' coverage in this month WHF (march) on KEF, I am really gob smacked.

Lets look at the physics in a bit more detail: Placing that many bass drivers in a small (ish) box is never a good recipe. It generally means there is too much piston area for the available cabinet volume. The results tends to be an emphasis for to much mid-bass energy and can be deemed to be 'muddy' or 'thick' in the bass. I could imagine these work OK in a typical US style room which is generally larger and built from wood. But in a U.K room with solid construction, I doubt they are a good match.

Just an observation of hi-fi speaker reviews and listening over a over a number of years. I know speaker companies have to make a living by making a range, but it's not often that the whole range is perfect (as Claire indicates)

 

[Clare Newsome]

This thread's now going in circles....

Unless someone has a fresh point to make, it's pointless to continue saying the same things.

 

[AEJim]

Andrew Everard:
Pistol Pete1:Guess it'll depend on how they react to this review and the fact they were not told the full details, as suggested by Clare.......

Indeed on the first point, but regarding the second, it's not a matter of not being told the full details: manufacturers submit products for review and, depending on what tests we have 'on the go' at the time, the product may go straight into a group test, or may get a standalone First Test.

Whichever happens, the product will receive the same testing, and the same verdict.

What Andrew said really.

As a manufacturer we usually call up or email the magazines when we have new product to launch and either send them a complete set or individual products (if some are more relevant to one mag than another) - these products will then be reviewed as and when and for whatever purpose. Occasionally we will be contacted for a specific test separately if we have something the magazine considers relevant.

It's a bit of a lottery for manufacturers as you never have much control over the review in terms of rooms, equipment used - even musical tastes and preferences of the reviewers! You are always taking a risk sending product for review but the rewards and "free" marketing, especially of a great review, are evident! At the end of the day you make your product as well as you can and hope for the best reviews - some you win, some you lose!

 

[Frank Harvey]

dino560b:Placing that many bass drivers in a small (ish) box is never a good recipe. It generally means there is too much piston area for the available cabinet volume. The results tends to be an emphasis for to much mid-bass energy and can be deemed to be 'muddy' or 'thick' in the bass. I could imagine these work OK in a typical US style room which is generally larger and built from wood. But in a U.K room with solid construction, I doubt they are a good match.
This is why KEF didn't make the other two drivers active - the designer has stated that making them active would actually give no more bass than having a single active one - the use of the ABR's allowed the benefits of a port in a sealed cabinet.