chebby
Well-known member
Vladimir said:
Okay, so by the same logic, what can Crown provide for the price of your Roksan amplifier? (Presumably something with vastly more Watts per £).
Okay, so by the same logic, what can Crown provide for the price of your Roksan amplifier? (Presumably something with vastly more Watts per £).
chebby
Well-known member
Vladimir said:
Did you come to this realisation after listening to domestic hi-fi amps and pro amps?
chebby said:
Yup. I've been gobsmacked by Crowns and QSCs just how powerfull and clean they sound. Then you go home and your amp already poops its diaper before 12 o'clock at the volume knob. I've been drinking the audiophile koolaid for too long to just switch to pro gear (since I was 12). I drooled over budget Tannoy and Marantz gear as a kid. I though BOSE is innovative and cool. Cerwin-Vega was something I wanted.
Like I said. Live and learn.
Did you get your Naim Mu-So yet?
chebby
Well-known member
Vladimir said:
Not without listening to it first. (And that will have to wait until one is in stock locally.)
Even then it's not going to be straightforward because I still have an ambition to get a nice, compact Harbeth P3ESRs based system eventually.
Kit like the Harbeth P3ESR still keeps me dreaming in this hobby. I would forgive all it's flaws and would love to listen music through it just as is. No OCD about performance on my mind, just music.
If I get a pair of big ProAcs or Dynaudios and Krell, I would just keep comparing and overthinking. It never ends. Same thing happened when I had a very high pedigree Dobermann dog. I was obsessed with his perfect diet, perfect training, exibitions etc. Now I have a mutt saved from the streets and all I care if he is healthy, happy and to be my friend.
It's just too bad those P3ESR mutts cost as much as a purebred dobermann pinscher. *biggrin* But audiophile wood, rubber and metal costs extra money so...
If I get a pair of big ProAcs or Dynaudios and Krell, I would just keep comparing and overthinking. It never ends. Same thing happened when I had a very high pedigree Dobermann dog. I was obsessed with his perfect diet, perfect training, exibitions etc. Now I have a mutt saved from the streets and all I care if he is healthy, happy and to be my friend.
It's just too bad those P3ESR mutts cost as much as a purebred dobermann pinscher. *biggrin* But audiophile wood, rubber and metal costs extra money so...
Vladimir said:
I just had a cursory glance over the spec sheet of your suggested crown amplifier. Distortion figures are nothing special and whilst infinite damping control (or 1000+ according to the company blurb) may sound hugely impressive, in real terms, with real domestically acceptable speakers rather than fridge sized plastic enclosures the result could be rather bland and clinical.
Whilst we are all ranting a bit tonight (please allow me my 2 mins) I am a little bit fed up with folks that proclaim pure power is the only thing that matters. It isn't, at least not in my experience. The whole thing is a little bit more complicated, at least in a domestic environment.
regards
chebby
Well-known member
Vladimir said:
'Audiophile' doesn't interest me.
That's partly why I want the Harbeths. Their DNA comes directly from BBC radio studios and outside broadcast units. Optimised for what I listen to the most. They don't come from audiophile roots.
@ DM
Yeah, I get carried away on rant Sundays.
@ chebby
Why do we want broadcasting van speakers so much? Bit odd.
Yeah, I get carried away on rant Sundays.
@ chebby
Why do we want broadcasting van speakers so much? Bit odd.
So I've noticed there has been some lively debate since I was last here. Thanks to all for opinions and suggestions. I can see where everyone is coming from with their points but at the end of the day I listened to the Brio R with the LS50s and it sounded very nice I must say. My criteria was simple, to improve perceived excitement of my system and the Brio certainly achieves that. It mainly does this by having a punchier and more direct sound than the A19 in my opinion. I am going to arrange a home demo during the week hopefully so I wouldn't like to get into too much of a detailed comparision just yet. But first indications are promising. The Brio r didn't suffer from any inability to drive the LS50s either, not at the volumes I listen to at least. 11 o clock position was nicely loud for me. After about 45 mins listening at this volume amp was not even slightly warm to the touch. Low volume channel balancing seeming perfect too.
The Brio r definately hums when you put your ear near the amp but not loudly, the casework slightly vibrates too. No hiss from the speakers, the LS50s low sensitivity helping there no doubt. So overall it's looking good.
The Brio r definately hums when you put your ear near the amp but not loudly, the casework slightly vibrates too. No hiss from the speakers, the LS50s low sensitivity helping there no doubt. So overall it's looking good.
iceman16
Well-known member
Here is Alan Sircom's (Hi-Fi Plus) take on Arcam IR DAC/A19/LS50.
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/web-exclusive-arcam-irdac-digital-convertor/
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/web-exclusive-arcam-irdac-digital-convertor/
Thanks Cno, interesting read. The A19 Kef LS50 combo does sound mostly great. I think the Brio-r brings more bass and better drum punch hence the sense of more excitement. Then again long term I might miss the detail and bigger sound stage of the A19. Which is why I have starting giving the Elex-r a little look, just looking of course!!! Best of both worlds maybe?
Thing is I really really don't need the extra volume a more powerful amp would provide. Does a powerful amp bring anything to sound quality at low (mostly) / moderate volumes?
With power comes control....but it's current as well as Watts that ultimately counts.....the LS50s need both to give of their best (imo).
The topology also has an effect (ie. Which Class of amp), and I think Class G is worth a listen.
The topology also has an effect (ie. Which Class of amp), and I think Class G is worth a listen.
A Roksan Kandy K2BT is the exact same price as the Elex R here. I do use bluetooth alot via my Arcam rblink which I find very good. Could be a nice all in one option. The Roksan is rated at something like 140W. Kef recommend no higher than 100w for the LS50s. Would there be potential issues with that pairing? The non bluetooth Roksan got 5 stars on here but the BT only 4. Are they not essentially the same amp? Can the 140W Roksan do low/ moderate volume listening well?
matt49
Well-known member
The idea that power is the only parameter that matters is utterly bonkers. What about all the other measurable characteristics of amplifiers? Frequency response (both in magnitude and phase, and at different levels and with different loads), input and (especially) output impedance, the various distortion measurements (THD, IMD, multi-tone, measured over frequency, reactive loads, and at a range of levels), PSRR (power supply rejection ratio), RF immunity (by radiation or over mains), channel separation, distortion of crosstalk signal?
And which amplifier manufacturer — hi-fi or pro — publishes these measurements for its products? Er, none.
Published measurements of amplifier power are useful and also (relatively) useless.
And which amplifier manufacturer — hi-fi or pro — publishes these measurements for its products? Er, none.
Published measurements of amplifier power are useful and also (relatively) useless.
ChrisIRL said:
I followed a similar path that you did. I liked the A19 for the same reasons—after auditioning quite a few amplifiers—, and then started looking for something else because I also found the midrange more recessed than I liked. I've been very happy with the amplification since I bought the P38.
Even though I did not feel like I needed more power, the P38 maintains the best aspects of the A19 and improves the midrange a lot.
Since you will consider going up the chain, also take into consideration the A38 or the newer A39.
As it is usual with Roksan, they changed the K2 BT several times. Since the WHF review came out at least once more. I got the last version with 150Wpc in 8ohms and 300Wpc in 4ohms. Latest specs here.
The new version is easy to recognize from these back panel specs. The old one had 140W declared, the new is 175W in 8 ohms.
The new version is easy to recognize from these back panel specs. The old one had 140W declared, the new is 175W in 8 ohms.
Good news; After a hugely positive demo I have gone for a Rega Elex-r. Got a great trade in deal on my A19 to boot!
Bad news; Minimum 4 week wait time. Rega can't cope with the number of orders. Another hit on their hands it seems.
Bad news; Minimum 4 week wait time. Rega can't cope with the number of orders. Another hit on their hands it seems.
juhunio
Well-known member
...how is the OP getting on with the elex-r / ls50 combo?
The reason I ask is I have currently got an A19 on home demo with the LS50s after a long and sometimes painful journey through floorstanders (684s2 and Spendor a5r) demo'd with the A19, Rega Elex-r and Naim 5si, both in store and at home. Nothing seemed to work, it all seemed to echo and feel really uncomfortable to my ears, then almost in desperation asked to demo the a19 with the 685s2, and it just clicked...
Turns out I'm a standmount kind of guy after all!
running out of time in the demo suite, I quickly tested the ls50 and LOVED them, to the point I asked to bring them home for a demo with the a19, and the 685s for a comparison
This is my 3rd home demo, so must be beginning to test the patience of my awesome local dealer!
Having lived with the combo for 2x 6hr listening sessions, regularly switching the speakers, I definitely prefer the refinement of the kefs over the slightly brasher b&ws, and am boderline in love with the warmth and tightness the kef/Arcam combo is giving the Rega TT
but
there is this niggling doubt that its all a bit too refined, and that the kefs need something a little bolder to make them really sing
exactly like the op, I am finding that drums in particular are a little backward in coming forward, it's all a bit too laid back, and that there might be another amp out there that would add definition and a little more clarity without losing the warmth and scale of the a19.
my mind went back to the elex-r, which I suspected might be just the job. So, a quick Google later, and I find this thread and a similar challenge seemingly addressed in the same way
it's given me the confidence to push my luck with the dealer one last time and give the elex-r a home run with the ls50s
Then, finally, I get to pick a winner, order a new system, make friends with the wife, get back to enjoying listening to music again rather than analysing everything, and perhaps even sleep properly again.
Will report back!
The reason I ask is I have currently got an A19 on home demo with the LS50s after a long and sometimes painful journey through floorstanders (684s2 and Spendor a5r) demo'd with the A19, Rega Elex-r and Naim 5si, both in store and at home. Nothing seemed to work, it all seemed to echo and feel really uncomfortable to my ears, then almost in desperation asked to demo the a19 with the 685s2, and it just clicked...
Turns out I'm a standmount kind of guy after all!
running out of time in the demo suite, I quickly tested the ls50 and LOVED them, to the point I asked to bring them home for a demo with the a19, and the 685s for a comparison
This is my 3rd home demo, so must be beginning to test the patience of my awesome local dealer!
Having lived with the combo for 2x 6hr listening sessions, regularly switching the speakers, I definitely prefer the refinement of the kefs over the slightly brasher b&ws, and am boderline in love with the warmth and tightness the kef/Arcam combo is giving the Rega TT
but
there is this niggling doubt that its all a bit too refined, and that the kefs need something a little bolder to make them really sing
exactly like the op, I am finding that drums in particular are a little backward in coming forward, it's all a bit too laid back, and that there might be another amp out there that would add definition and a little more clarity without losing the warmth and scale of the a19.
my mind went back to the elex-r, which I suspected might be just the job. So, a quick Google later, and I find this thread and a similar challenge seemingly addressed in the same way
it's given me the confidence to push my luck with the dealer one last time and give the elex-r a home run with the ls50s
Then, finally, I get to pick a winner, order a new system, make friends with the wife, get back to enjoying listening to music again rather than analysing everything, and perhaps even sleep properly again.
Will report back!
Well as it happens I never did pick up an Elex-r in the end. Delivery time estimate kept getting pushed out and I got impatient. The dealer proposed a Naim Nait 5si which in his opinion would offer the punchy lively sound I was looking for. Online reviews/ forums etc confirmed this too.
Went for the Nait and initially loved it, punchy and lively, great bass and a unique sound. Thought it was a keeper. However after a week or so treble became very irritating. It would literally leave me with a headache! I also had grounding issues with the amp and buzzing from the speakers. Grounding one of the amps RCA inputs to the chassis eliminated this but I didn't feel a homemade fix like this was good enough for such an expensive amp. That problem and the piercing highs led to it's return to the dealer. Back to square one!
I had initially been interested in a Rega Brio-r. Read good things about the pairing with the LS 50’s. An instore demo left me impressed too. However advice from other users that it may not be powerful enough for the LS 50's is what got me interested in the Elex-r. My experience with the Nait put me off expensive amps though, price means nothing in this game I learned. I came across a 2nd hand Brio-r for a good price and though why not?
It's a brilliant combo I have to say. Punchy and lively, very dynamic. Detail is great, vocals sound particularly good. No piercing highs and bass excellent. But, there's always a but, it did lose some of the characteristics I liked with the A19 and didn't really want to lose. Soundstage and sense of scale narrowed noticeably. Bass depth also suffered. It has very good bass weight and punch but doesn't go anywhere near as deep as the A19. I could live with it no problem, it's very enjoyable but I'm going to have one more stab at getting things perfect.
Recently found a brand new Roksan Kandy K2 for a bargain £399. This amp has been described as a good all rounder and it certainly should have the power I've been advised the LS 50's need. I know the K2 has it's quirks and the sound isn't for everyone but at that price it's worth a go. If not I'll happily keep the Brio and try to demo an Elex-r sometime in the future or wait for a 2nd hand one to come up.
I am hopeful about the K2/ LS50 combo however, some videos on youtube, as much as you can tell from the poor sound quality, suggest there might be something working well there with this pairing. At least my hifi will be very “interesting (fugly)" looking. A burglar would probably leave it so that's good at least.
Went for the Nait and initially loved it, punchy and lively, great bass and a unique sound. Thought it was a keeper. However after a week or so treble became very irritating. It would literally leave me with a headache! I also had grounding issues with the amp and buzzing from the speakers. Grounding one of the amps RCA inputs to the chassis eliminated this but I didn't feel a homemade fix like this was good enough for such an expensive amp. That problem and the piercing highs led to it's return to the dealer. Back to square one!
I had initially been interested in a Rega Brio-r. Read good things about the pairing with the LS 50’s. An instore demo left me impressed too. However advice from other users that it may not be powerful enough for the LS 50's is what got me interested in the Elex-r. My experience with the Nait put me off expensive amps though, price means nothing in this game I learned. I came across a 2nd hand Brio-r for a good price and though why not?
It's a brilliant combo I have to say. Punchy and lively, very dynamic. Detail is great, vocals sound particularly good. No piercing highs and bass excellent. But, there's always a but, it did lose some of the characteristics I liked with the A19 and didn't really want to lose. Soundstage and sense of scale narrowed noticeably. Bass depth also suffered. It has very good bass weight and punch but doesn't go anywhere near as deep as the A19. I could live with it no problem, it's very enjoyable but I'm going to have one more stab at getting things perfect.
Recently found a brand new Roksan Kandy K2 for a bargain £399. This amp has been described as a good all rounder and it certainly should have the power I've been advised the LS 50's need. I know the K2 has it's quirks and the sound isn't for everyone but at that price it's worth a go. If not I'll happily keep the Brio and try to demo an Elex-r sometime in the future or wait for a 2nd hand one to come up.
I am hopeful about the K2/ LS50 combo however, some videos on youtube, as much as you can tell from the poor sound quality, suggest there might be something working well there with this pairing. At least my hifi will be very “interesting (fugly)" looking. A burglar would probably leave it so that's good at least.
Seems very good value. I have heard this demoed in a hifi shop (with the LS50) and enjoyed the music it was playing. The same afternoon I heard it with a marantz pearl lite amp too (now Marantz 8005 ). I had a very slight preference for the marantz. So - if I was you - I'd maybe give it a listen. The 8005 is also a good price but not reduced as much pricewise as the K2 . The marantz is a great sounding amp.
tonky
tonky
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