Kef LS50 with Rega brio r

[CnoEvil]

When will it all end!!!

It doesn't!

 

[ChrisIRL]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I will get to demo the Brio-r this weekend and will report back. Seems I may have to consider an upgrade in the future if unhappy with the Brio demo. When will it all end!!!

I will never move beyond the Kef LS50s however. They are incredible. I had a poor home demo of them previously but thankfully tried them again at a later date and was very impressed. Must have been having a serious off day the first time I tried them.

 

[ChrisIRL]

When will it all end!!!

It doesn't!

Very nearly there thankfully!

 

[stevebrock]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I will get to demo the Brio-r this weekend and will report back. Seems I may have to consider an upgrade in the future if unhappy with the Brio demo. When will it all end!!!

I will never move beyond the Kef LS50s however. They are incredible. I had a poor home demo of them previously but thankfully tried them again at a later date and was very impressed. Must have been having a serious off day the first time I tried them.

if your going to demo a Brio R, while your there get them to hook up an Elicit R - that will have no problem driving LS50's - lovely clean transparent amp

 

[CnoEvil]

if your going to demo a Brio R, while your there get them to hook up an Elicit R - that will have no problem driving LS50's - lovely clean transparent amp

*diablo* *biggrin*

 

[stevebrock]

if your going to demo a Brio R, while your there get them to hook up an Elicit R - that will have no problem driving LS50's - lovely clean transparent amp

*diablo* *biggrin*

couldnt help myself

 

[ChrisIRL]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I will get to demo the Brio-r this weekend and will report back. Seems I may have to consider an upgrade in the future if unhappy with the Brio demo. When will it all end!!!

I will never move beyond the Kef LS50s however. They are incredible. I had a poor home demo of them previously but thankfully tried them again at a later date and was very impressed. Must have been having a serious off day the first time I tried them.

if your going to demo a Brio R, while your there get them to hook up an Elicit R - that will have no problem driving LS50's - lovely clean transparent amp

I don't think the issue is that the A19 can't drive the LS50s, it's that the A19 is a smooth sounding amp. This was also apparent when I was using it with 685 S2s which it could comfortably drive. But for the sake of completeness I'll give it a go! How about I set up a crowdfunding campaign? All for the sake of research of course.

 

[ChrisIRL]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I will get to demo the Brio-r this weekend and will report back. Seems I may have to consider an upgrade in the future if unhappy with the Brio demo. When will it all end!!!

I will never move beyond the Kef LS50s however. They are incredible. I had a poor home demo of them previously but thankfully tried them again at a later date and was very impressed. Must have been having a serious off day the first time I tried them.

if your going to demo a Brio R, while your there get them to hook up an Elicit R - that will have no problem driving LS50's - lovely clean transparent amp

I don't think the issue is that the A19 can't drive the LS50s, it's that the A19 is a smooth sounding amp. This was also apparent when I was using it with 685 S2s which it could comfortably drive. But for the sake of completeness I'll give it a go! How about I set up a crowdfunding campaign? All for the sake of research of course.

 

[unsleepable]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I will get to demo the Brio-r this weekend and will report back. Seems I may have to consider an upgrade in the future if unhappy with the Brio demo. When will it all end!!!

I will never move beyond the Kef LS50s however. They are incredible. I had a poor home demo of them previously but thankfully tried them again at a later date and was very impressed. Must have been having a serious off day the first time I tried them.

If they happen to also carry Exposure, and since you are restricting your options to a budget, maybe it's worth it to consider matthewpiano's advice and audition the 1010. I auditioned the 2010s2 with the LS50 and really liked the soundstage produced by the combo.

 

[unsleepable]

the brio-r is a cracking little amp but is more suited to the r100's than the ls50's, you need to be looking at creek,leema,naim xs etc to get anywhere near the ls50's potential.

-1

 

[Jota180]

the brio-r is a cracking little amp but is more suited to the r100's than the ls50's, you need to be looking at creek,leema,naim xs etc to get anywhere near the ls50's potential.

-1

You do. These need power to maximise their potential otherwise you're stuck playing at lower volumes.

 

[unsleepable]

the brio-r is a cracking little amp but is more suited to the r100's than the ls50's, you need to be looking at creek,leema,naim xs etc to get anywhere near the ls50's potential.

-1

You do. These need power to maximise their potential otherwise you're stuck playing at lower volumes.

In my opinion, the A19 is more than powerful enough to drive the LS50 well. My R100 have the same sensitivity as the LS50, and setting the amplifier at 40 (out of a maximum of 99) is already party-level in my house, while maintaining the same sound character as when playing at a lower volume. Even though rated at just 50W, the A19 implements a very large power supply, and it's able to provide ample current. And it uses a resistor network volume control with none of this nonsense of getting to almost maximum volume at a low position.

We have already discussed Creek in this thread, and I don't have any experience with Leema. But as for the Naim XS suggested, I used to own a XS-2. And while it does a few things very well, I found that the soundstage it produces—which the OP has stated that it's an important characteristic—quite flat. In comparison with the A19, the XS-2 throws the sound on your face—which may actually be a very good thing, depending on what you are looking for—while the A19 involves you with it.

Finally, I find the statement that the Brio-R would suffice for the R100 simply naïve. While the R100 doesn't aim at the neutrality that the LS50 provides, they are still revealing speakers that would suffer from a Brio-R as much as the LS50.

 

[Jota180]

the brio-r is a cracking little amp but is more suited to the r100's than the ls50's, you need to be looking at creek,leema,naim xs etc to get anywhere near the ls50's potential.

-1

You do. These need power to maximise their potential otherwise you're stuck playing at lower volumes.

In my opinion, the A19 is more than powerful enough to drive the LS50 well. My R100 have the same sensitivity as the LS50, and setting the amplifier at 40 (out of a maximum of 99) is already party-level in my house, while maintaining the same sound character as when playing at a lower volume. Even though rated at just 50W, the A19 implements a very large power supply, and it's able to provide ample current. And it uses a resistor network volume control with none of this nonsense of getting to almost maximum volume at a low position.

We have already discussed Creek in this thread, and I don't have any experience with Leema. But as for the Naim XS suggested, I used to own a XS-2. And while it does a few things very well, I found that the soundstage it produces—which the OP has stated that it's an important characteristic—quite flat. In comparison with the A19, the XS-2 throws the sound on your face—which may actually be a very good thing, depending on what you are looking for—while the A19 involves you with it.

Finally, I find the statement that the Brio-R would suffice for the R100 simply naïve. While the R100 doesn't aim at the neutrality that the LS50 provides, they are still revealing speakers that would suffer from a Brio-R as much as the LS50.

Well, being fair, we have your opinion and the opinion of the KEF employee I emailed asking whether a 50 watt amp was good enough.

He has the incentive to say it's all you need so he can sell more speakers but was open enough to say 50 watts is fine at low to decent volumes in a small room. I'll quote the salient part again... "The Naim amp you have will be fine for the LS50’s in a small to mid-sized room at decent, but not overly loud volumes. It’s a bit on the low side of the middle of the spec, if that makes any sense."

He says that a 40 watt continuous power rating amp is the minimum he'd suggest for the LS50 and only at lower volumes. He also said a 100 watt amp, if you're playing your music loud, doesn't leave a lot of headroom because the impedance drops as the voice coils heat up in the speaker and there's also a chance of clipping there. Perhaps not enough to fry your speakers but enough to degrade the sound.

So, if the OP isn't after high SPL then 50 watts is fine for lower volume stuff but it leaves little headroom for the dynamic swings in the music.

 

[unsleepable]

It's just not so simple, but it's a common misconception faced by those entering the hobby—together with how it is possible to blow speakers with low-powered amplifiers.

In order to consume a given number of watts, the lower the resistance of the speakers, the more current that the amplifier must provide. And the amount of current any amplifier can provide is limited: it depends on its power supply and the banks in which it stores power to handle peaks. These specs also need to be considered to understand how an amplifier performs—two amplifiers can't just be compared because of their power ratings. In fact it can happen, and often does, that amplifiers with a lower power rating can actually be better performers than others with a higher power rating, if they have larger power supplies and capacitor storage banks.

Newer Kef speakers sport a low minimum impedance, and so they are demading in terms of amplification. But even taking into account the low sensitivity of the LS50, with a 50W amplifier that provided all the current they needed they would produce more than 100dB of sound at 1 meter—definitely short for you average party night, but beyond healthy house-hold levels.

I believe the Kef representative may have referred specifically to the NAP 100, rather than to any 50W amplifier, when they said that it was verging the minimum. Even though the A19 and the NAP 100 are both rated at 50W, the A19 is better at driving the LS50 because it can provide more current. In addition, Kef has been using the A19 to showcase the LS50 in a considerable number of events, which they wouldn't have done if they didn't think the amplifier is able to drive the speakers well.

 

[ChrisIRL]

Absolutely the A19 drives the LS50s no problem. It drives them to near party volumes without breaking a sweat, no loss in sound quality, no clipping, no distortion, nothing negative. In fact my B&W685 S2s used to sound alot worse when pushed to similarly high volumes. This is why I'm hopeful the Brio-r could be fine too and just offer a more lively sound presentation. It seems to be a bit of a myth getting out of hand that the LS50s are difficult to drive. I read somewhere that they sound great even using an original NAD 3020 which is only 20 or 30W.

 

[iceman16]

Absolutely the A19 drives the LS50s no problem. It drives them to near party volumes without breaking a sweat, no loss in sound quality, no clipping, no distortion, nothing negative. In fact my B&W685 S2s used to sound alot worse when pushed to similarly high volumes. This is why I'm hopeful the Brio-r could be fine too and just offer a more lively sound presentation. It seems to be a bit of a myth getting out of hand that the LS50s are difficult to drive. I read somewhere that they sound great even using an original NAD 3020 which is only 20 or 30W.

Chris

I know its not easy but try to demo each and every amp within your budget mate. In your own place if possible. Been there and others here but its not easy to get the best for your ears. The brio-r and ls50 is in my bedroom so Im not expecting them to perform as my main.

 

[antskip]

The brio-r and ls50 is in my bedroom so Im not expecting them to perform as my main.

A Brio-R with LS50's should be an amazing bedroom setup!

 

[Jota180]

It's just not so simple, but it's a common misconception faced by those entering the hobby—together with how it is possible to blow speakers with low-powered amplifiers.

In order to consume a given number of watts, the lower the resistance of the speakers, the more current that the amplifier must provide. And the amount of current any amplifier can provide is limited: it depends on its power supply and the banks in which it stores power to handle peaks. These specs also need to be considered to understand how an amplifier performs—two amplifiers can't just be compared because of their power ratings. In fact it can happen, and often does, that amplifiers with a lower power rating can actually be better performers than others with a higher power rating, if they have larger power supplies and capacitor storage banks.

Newer Kef speakers sport a low minimum impedance, and so they are demading in terms of amplification. But even taking into account the low sensitivity of the LS50, with a 50W amplifier that provided all the current they needed they would produce more than 100dB of sound at 1 meter—definitely short for you average party night, but beyond healthy house-hold levels.

I believe the Kef representative may have referred specifically to the NAP 100, rather than to any 50W amplifier, when they said that it was verging the minimum. Even though the A19 and the NAP 100 are both rated at 50W, the A19 is better at driving the LS50 because it can provide more current. In addition, Kef has been using the A19 to showcase the LS50 in a considerable number of events, which they wouldn't have done if they didn't think the amplifier is able to drive the speakers well.

How much current can both amps mentioned provide?

His blog on the topic never mentioned any brands, certainly not Naim, and that's where the 100 watts might not have enough headroom when playing it loud, came from. All things being equal you're better with a 100 watt amp than a 50 watt for these speakers.

 

[Bogester]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I will get to demo the Brio-r this weekend and will report back. Seems I may have to consider an upgrade in the future if unhappy with the Brio demo. When will it all end!!!

Hi ChrisIRL

How did the LS50/Brio-R demo go? I already have a Brio-R and am considering getting some LS50s. Did you find them a good match?

Cheers
Bogester

 

[MickyBlue]

the brio-r is a cracking little amp but is more suited to the r100's than the ls50's, you need to be looking at creek,leema,naim xs etc to get anywhere near the ls50's potential.

-1

You do. These need power to maximise their potential otherwise you're stuck playing at lower volumes.

In my opinion, the A19 is more than powerful enough to drive the LS50 well. My R100 have the same sensitivity as the LS50, and setting the amplifier at 40 (out of a maximum of 99) is already party-level in my house, while maintaining the same sound character as when playing at a lower volume. Even though rated at just 50W, the A19 implements a very large power supply, and it's able to provide ample current. And it uses a resistor network volume control with none of this nonsense of getting to almost maximum volume at a low position.

We have already discussed Creek in this thread, and I don't have any experience with Leema. But as for the Naim XS suggested, I used to own a XS-2. And while it does a few things very well, I found that the soundstage it produces—which the OP has stated that it's an important characteristic—quite flat. In comparison with the A19, the XS-2 throws the sound on your face—which may actually be a very good thing, depending on what you are looking for—while the A19 involves you with it.

Finally, I find the statement that the Brio-R would suffice for the R100 simply naïve. While the R100 doesn't aim at the neutrality that the LS50 provides, they are still revealing speakers that would suffer from a Brio-R as much as the LS50.

wow you really have no clue do you. if you knew anything about hi-fi you would know the rega brio-r would not be suitable due to the high heat it would cause running ls50's.... as listed below by rega.

rega recommends using loudspeakers with a nominal impedance of 8Ω. It is possible to run speakers as low as 4Ω however such units may cause the case to exceed 40° C above the ambient temperature.

as for the arcam a19 any good dealer will tell you that it won't get the best from the ls50's, in fact anyone who has half a brain would tell you that.

You DO need high quality amplification to get the best from these speakers and anyone who thinks otherwise will be dissapointed with the results.

The r100's have a sensitivity of 86db, the ls50's are 85db, how is this the same?

if what you say is true the arcam is more powerfull than my leema elements... lol my amp is 55wpc and would spank the arcam into next week...

 

[Thompsonuxb]

If you're looking at getting a little sparkle , top end into your current set, try Cambridge Audio interconnects between source and amp.

Or Chord Crimsonplus. If your dealer has them in stock ask for a test. But you'll most likely hear the differences at home.

 

[Esra]

If you do demo listening you will find out clean sounding amps work best with LS50.At entry level think about Pioneer A50,NAD 326Bee,NAD D3020 for LS50.I see no reason why one should get Brio-r or Arcam A19 over these which easily outperform the brio-r/Arcam LS50 combo expecially in low freq. performance and being cheaper. BrioR/Arcam A19(sounded amps) are a good choice for brighter(sounded) and more efficient speakers as the LS50 are say ex. MA RX range.That doesn´t mean they won´t work with the LS50 but you can do better than that.

Brio R is too sweet/mellow besides limited power for LS50.Arcam A19 is the better choice but lack expecially in lower departement for definition,it has strong bass with them but as said not really defined and a little muddled.A Creek EVO 50 is the better combo for the LS50 being more defined in bass although maybe not as strong as the Arcam and sparkling more in higher freq.But then again why spend more if you can get same/better results with half the money or less?

 

[Vladimir]

Well, being fair, we have your opinion and the opinion of the KEF employee I emailed asking whether a 50 watt amp was good enough.

He has the incentive to say it's all you need so he can sell more speakers but was open enough to say 50 watts is fine at low to decent volumes in a small room. I'll quote the salient part again... "The Naim amp you have will be fine for the LS50’s in a small to mid-sized room at decent, but not overly loud volumes. It’s a bit on the low side of the middle of the spec, if that makes any sense."

He says that a 40 watt continuous power rating amp is the minimum he'd suggest for the LS50 and only at lower volumes. He also said a 100 watt amp, if you're playing your music loud, doesn't leave a lot of headroom because the impedance drops as the voice coils heat up in the speaker and there's also a chance of clipping there. Perhaps not enough to fry your speakers but enough to degrade the sound.

So, if the OP isn't after high SPL then 50 watts is fine for lower volume stuff but it leaves little headroom for the dynamic swings in the music.

When an amplifier receives an input signal capable of driving it beyond its power rating, the result is clipping. This means that the negative and positive peaks of the amplifier's output signal are "clipped" off. The amplifier may also clip in an asymmetrical fashion, meaning that the positive side of the signal is clipped more than the negative (or vice versa). When subjected to an asymmetrical clipped waveform, one end of the loudspeaker's voice coil is "on average" spending more time outside of the gap (corresponding to the direction that is clipped) than the other. The end of the coil that is spending more time outside of the gap has poor heat transfer to the magnet structure. As a result, it overheats and burns.

Source: JBL Pro - General Audio FAQ

Further detailed explanation: Danger: Low Power!

My opinion on this thread. All amplifiers mentioned are pathetically underengineered, cheaply made, overpriced and overmarketed. *bomb**biggrin*

 

[Esra]

No need to overact,maybe Vladimir is right from a engineer point of view,most of us are not and we are talking about entry level stuff don´t forget.As long as it sounds good and won´t burn your crip down who cares...all about setting realistic expectations.

 

[Vladimir]

It bothers me that some audiophiles look at high performance gear with disdain and would rather make up things, write their own brochures and reviews, rather than learn a thing or two about engineering.

Why is a Naim Supernait 2 £2750? There is absolutely nothing super about it. For £2500 I can buy a new Crown Macro-Tech MA-12000i with 2100 Wpc in 8 ohms, 6000Wpc in 2 ohms and damping factor of 5000! No High-End audio gear of any magnitude comes close to it. Why is budget domestic gear costing more than the professional gear that was used to create the original music on? It won't do even 5% of its performance, litteraly! NAP CAP? Are they bloody joking?

And then I read comments on audiophile forums how MAYBE just maybe a Crown Macrotech amp may touch the starter Hi-Fi kit for sound quality, but still not be as refined. Seriosly? No wonder some believe in Xenu.

Chris said "Any thoughts" so there you go.