KEF LS 50 Meta

[Fathalla]

Hello
I have KEF LS 50 meta speakers.
I am intending to buy the Denon 3700H AVR to power them only for Audio purpose for the time being , in the future will add more speakers for movies.
My question is, will the Denon give me the power and audio quality , like the Denon pma - 900 HNE integrated amplifier ?

 

[twinkletoes]

Hi, It will power them, though they do state the 6ohm rating in the literature and i might also add at least on paper quite a noisy THD figure into 6ohms. nice to see AVR manufacturers are still up to the old tricks.

But 105 watts at 8ohm is more than enough to drive KEFs. Will it sound any good? well, that is completely up to you and your ears. Will it be the same as your Denon pma - 900 HNE i suspect from lots of past experience it the AVR , will be nowhere close to the performance of the Denon pma - 900 HNE. I have only come across a few AVRs that sound better than there stereo counterparts and they (AVRs) always cost a lot more than their stereo counterpart.

 

[robdmarsh]

I don't think he has a Denon pma 900 hne, I think he is considering one. I think the 900 hne will sound very good - I have an 800 ne which sounds excellent and I think the 900 hne will be of similar quality but with a built-in network player. As for streaming I think you would get better sound buying an off-board DAC and cheap streamer. I tried a Denon network player and was not happy with its perfermance.

 

[Deliriumbassist]

Just be aware that when you add more speakers to that amp, that 105W (@ 8ohm, 20-20kHz, 0.08% THD) per channel will decrease. The amplifier channels are sharing the same power supply.

It also depends on what you're expecting. Adding a subwoofer and using the X3700's bass management will alleviate the lower frequencies from being sent to the LS50s - also likely avoiding their 3.2ohm dip - which will free up amplifier power. If you're in a smaller room, you won't need as much power for the transients than you would in a larger room. However, listening at extreme volumes in a smaller room may use more power than strictly listening at night time volumes in a larger room. What is your room size? And by that I mean volume - square footage means absolutely nothing, because we are all working within a 3D space as opposed to a 2D one. Is the room sealed, or is it open plan? Speakers don't 'see' the listening area, they 'see' the hard boundaries of the room.

If you're going towards a multichannel system in the future, in most cases I would try and budget for a subwoofer early on in their endeavour. Possibly consider a separate power amp to run the front three speakers as a future upgrade - the X3700 has provision for this.

 

[Fathalla]

Hi, It will power them, though they do state the 6ohm rating in the literature and i might also add at least on paper quite a noisy THD figure into 6ohms. nice to see AVR manufacturers are still up to the old tricks.

But 105 watts at 8ohm is more than enough to drive KEFs. Will it sound any good? well, that is completely up to you and your ears. Will it be the same as your Denon pma - 900 HNE i suspect from lots of past experience it the AVR , will be nowhere close to the performance of the Denon pma - 900 HNE. I have only come across a few AVRs that sound better than there stereo counterparts and they (AVRs) always cost a lot more than their stereo counterpart.

Thank you
I think I will buy the Denon Pma 900 HNE
As the quality of audio is very important to me.

 

[Fathalla]

I don't think he has a Denon pma 900 hne, I think he is considering one. I think the 900 hne will sound very good - I have an 800 ne which sounds excellent and I think the 900 hne will be of similar quality but with a built-in network player. As for streaming I think you would get better sound buying an off-board DAC and cheap streamer. I tried a Denon network player and was not happy with its perfermance.

Thank you
You are correct, I don’t have the Pma 900 HNE .
After your comments I will buy the pma 900 , and I agree with you , I need an audio streamer , as I heard that direct bluetooth audio from the amp is not good.
I am considering buying the Bluesound Node N130 for audio streaming. What do you think?

 

[Fathalla]

Just be aware that when you add more speakers to that amp, that 105W (@ 8ohm, 20-20kHz, 0.08% THD) per channel will decrease. The amplifier channels are sharing the same power supply.

It also depends on what you're expecting. Adding a subwoofer and using the X3700's bass management will alleviate the lower frequencies from being sent to the LS50s - also likely avoiding their 3.2ohm dip - which will free up amplifier power. If you're in a smaller room, you won't need as much power for the transients than you would in a larger room. However, listening at extreme volumes in a smaller room may use more power than strictly listening at night time volumes in a larger room. What is your room size? And by that I mean volume - square footage means absolutely nothing, because we are all working within a 3D space as opposed to a 2D one. Is the room sealed, or is it open plan? Speakers don't 'see' the listening area, they 'see' the hard boundaries of the room.

If you're going towards a multichannel system in the future, in most cases I would try and budget for a subwoofer early on in their endeavour. Possibly consider a separate power amp to run the front three speakers as a future upgrade - the X3700 has provision for this.

Thank you
Well, the seating area is not sealed, all opened .
I agree with you , I need to buy a subwoofer . I will buy the pma 900 amp.

 

[robdmarsh]

Thank you
You are correct, I don’t have the Pma 900 HNE .
After your comments I will buy the pma 900 , and I agree with you , I need an audio streamer , as I heard that direct bluetooth audio from the amp is not good.
I am considering buying the Bluesound Node N130 for audio streaming. What do you think?

Ok I think I should clarify what I said. So I have the pma 800ne (50 wpc into 8 ohms, 85 in 4). This is an excellent budget amp and I believe that the 900 hne, as an amp, would be of a very similar level. What you get with the 900 hne is a streaming module, so in effect a DAC/ streamer, which means you can stream over wifi. But I tried the separate 800ne network player which is basically exactly that, a streaming DAC, and I was not too impressed with it. I was streaming with a Zen blue bluetooth streamer which I thought sounded better than the 800 ne network player, even though the Zen blue is bluetooth only (the pma 800 ne amp has no bluetooth). As I liked the Zen blue so much and ifi in general I thought I would try the Zen One signature DAC when I read about it. This is significantly superior to the Zen blue and also much better to my ears and tastes than a Blueound Node 2021 (which I was using as a full hi-res streamer vs bluetooth only with the Zen One sig) that I had briefly and got rid of pretty sharpish. The Zen One is a DAC with built-in bluetooth and various inputs so a streamer can be added, TV played through it and so on. So what I'm saying to you is I believe I've got significantly better sound with this set up than if I'd bought a Denon 900 hne or for that matter a Marantz pm7000n, which is the equivalent to the Denon. Cost wise my set up was a bit less because I found the 800 ne amp for such a good price but convenience goes to the all in pma 900hne or pm7000n but not by much. The Zen One signature is very small and discreet.

 

[Deliriumbassist]

Thank you
Well, the seating area is not sealed, all opened .
I agree with you , I need to buy a subwoofer . I will buy the pma 900 amp.

You should hopefully have a lot of options available at the PM900 price point. I'd be looking for an integrated amplifier that has bass management built in. It's not a dealbreaker really, but for me it's a 'great to have.'

Normally with a sub in a two channel system, the main speakers still get the full range signal. It's far easier to integrate with a an amplifier that will split the signal first, and send the lows only to the sub, and the rest to the main speakers. This way, the amplifier has less work to do (for simplicity's sake, low frequencies need more power), meaning you get more headroom with it. And the less work a speaker has to do, the better.

The NAD C368 as an example, but I think it's a bit pricier than the Denon.

 

[Fathalla]

You should hopefully have a lot of options available at the PM900 price point. I'd be looking for an integrated amplifier that has bass management built in. It's not a dealbreaker really, but for me it's a 'great to have.'

Normally with a sub in a two channel system, the main speakers still get the full range signal. It's far easier to integrate with a an amplifier that will split the signal first, and send the lows only to the sub, and the rest to the main speakers. This way, the amplifier has less work to do (for simplicity's sake, low frequencies need more power), meaning you get more headroom with it. And the less work a speaker has to do, the better.

The NAD C368 as an example, but I think it's a bit pricier than the Denon.

Unfortunatel, I only have the Denon pma 900 HNE available right now, and it includes pre-out for a subwoofer. Which I think will help with sending the lows to the sub .

 

[Deliriumbassist]

Unfortunatel, I only have the Denon pma 900 HNE available right now, and it includes pre-out for a subwoofer. Which I think will help with sending the lows to the sub .

I may not have been fully explanatory in my previous response.

So the Denon does have a subwoofer output - but all that is doing is making a 'copy' of the left and right signals, and then summing the left and right together. It MAY have a low pass filter involved. A low pass filter is a filter that attenuates the sound above a certain frequency, so you would stop the high frequencies from even getting to the subwoofer. A subwoofer with a crossover knob does this also. But the main speakers still get everything, which can make good integration somewhat more of a chore. Think of the subwoofer as supplementing the main speakers in this scenario.

What bass management does is you can set a low pass filter for the sub output, and a separate high pass filter for the main speakers, so you prevent the highs from going to the sub, and the lows from going to the main speaker. This is more like what is happening in the main speaker between, say, the midrange and tweeter. The signal gets split and aligned so that they smoothly roll into each other. It's like adding an extra set of bass drivers to your main speaker, rather than being a separate thing. It tends to be much easier to integrate, and can help improve the midrange performance of the main speakers because they don't have to deal with the low stuff.

As I say, it's a nice to have.

 

[Fathalla]

Ok, now I understand.
Thank you , for elaborating .

 

[Fathalla]

I may not have been fully explanatory in my previous response.

So the Denon does have a subwoofer output - but all that is doing is making a 'copy' of the left and right signals, and then summing the left and right together. It MAY have a low pass filter involved. A low pass filter is a filter that attenuates the sound above a certain frequency, so you would stop the high frequencies from even getting to the subwoofer. A subwoofer with a crossover knob does this also. But the main speakers still get everything, which can make good integration somewhat more of a chore. Think of the subwoofer as supplementing the main speakers in this scenario.

What bass management does is you can set a low pass filter for the sub output, and a separate high pass filter for the main speakers, so you prevent the highs from going to the sub, and the lows from going to the main speaker. This is more like what is happening in the main speaker between, say, the midrange and tweeter. The signal gets split and aligned so that they smoothly roll into each other. It's like adding an extra set of bass drivers to your main speaker, rather than being a separate thing. It tends to be much easier to integrate, and can help improve the midrange performance of the main speakers because they don't have to deal with the low stuff.

As I say, it's a nice to have.

I can buy the Hegel 120 Integrated amplifier. Do you think it is worth the difference in price to the Denon pma 900 HNE?

 

[twinkletoes]

I can buy the Hegel 120 Integrated amplifier. Do you think it is worth the difference in price to the Denon pma 900 HNE?

Personally id be looking at a musical fidelity cheaper than hegal especially if you're buying new

you can buy with or without the dac.

Musical Fidelity M5si Integrated Amplifier

The Musical Fidelity M5si Integrated Amplifier is a powerhouse, designed to deliver high levels of power with finesse. Its dual-mono design ensures individual power delivery to each channel, generating an impressive output to drive even the most power-demanding speakers. This feature turns any...

www.hifix.co.uk

If you are planning on using a subwoofer and want a stereo amp with base management AND HDMI(think this very important these days) look at a Blue sound power node and/or a NAD the NAD m10v2 also comes with room correction, which is worth its weight in gold and will elevate your system beyond what a "Dumb" amp can do.

See John Darko's review of both below.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhRMWjDcEoU

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uxbd21uaJo


though I'm not sure of your budget haven't read through everything above

 

[plastic penguin]

Personally I wouldn't bother looking for bass management. Get the synergy right and it should be beautifully balanced, something I'm not sure a Denon will achieve.

Having demoed the original LS50s, they require two main traits: synergy and control.

Arcam, Roksan, midrange Marantz is where I would start looking first.

Really, a demo is essential.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello
I have KEF LS 50 meta speakers.
I am intending to buy the Denon 3700H AVR to power them only for Audio purpose for the time being , in the future will add more speakers for movies.
My question is, will the Denon give me the power and audio quality , like the Denon pma - 900 HNE integrated amplifier ?

Just out of curiosity, did you demo the KEFs before parting with your hard earned? If you did what amp was used?

 

[Fathalla]

Just out of curiosity, did you demo the KEFs before parting with your hard earned? If you did what amp was used?

No they didn’t have any amps to pair with.

 

[plastic penguin]

No they didn’t have any amps to pair with.

This is always a problem buying any component without demoing -- there's no reference point.

 

[Fathalla]

This is always a problem buying any component without demoing -- there's no reference point.

I agree.
I had no other options.

 

[plastic penguin]

I agree.
I had no other options.

Was it at a dealers?