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Just picked up the Awards issue - who knows who got the readers award product? Apart from me?

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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MajorFubar said:
Shelving its software quirks for a second (not that they should be ignored), what can we read into the fact WHF have finally given an active pair of speakers an award? Is this a sign that actives are finally making some headway in terms of market acceptance? Not too long ago hifi dealers said they couldn't generate any interst in actives because they didn't fit the source->amp(s)->speaker mindset that consumers expected to see in a hifi shop.
As technology improves there will no doubt be more and more all in one solutions that will satisfy 95% of people. The drive towards smaller box count and more domestically acceptable designs certainly helps. But I think it's mostly as active is easier to design and develop around these market needs and not as it is superior in terms of design / sound quality.
 

radiorog

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Jan 1, 2013
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Gazzip said:
radiorog said:
Gazzip said:
Well I never...

“The KEF LS50 Wireless all-in-one streaming system pulls off the seemingly impossible trick of picking up two POYs on its own, taking home Awards for both the best hi-fi system and our new Hall of Fame category.”.

An all in one streaming system that patently isn’t capable of gapless streaming wins system of the year. A wireless system which requires an ethernet cable so isn’t wireless no less! Well done WHF! You have completely sold out.
Does seem a bit weird. An all in one system that's no capable of playing music the way it's supposed to be heard sometimes, ie:without gaps, is a ludicrous omission.
It gets even weirder when you read what WHF say about the LS50W's in the "Hall of Fame"...

"This year, we’ve introduced a Hall of Fame for products that are instant classics and exemplary in their field. The first Hall of Fame honour goes to the KEF LS50 Wireless – a superb product that seamlessly blends traditional hi-fi values and modern streaming features into one glorious package."

Whoever wrote that doesn't have a clue what "modern streaming features" are.

I bought a kettle made by Bosch a few years ago, purely on the strength of its looks and a Which Magazine review which gave it a best kettle award. If you tried to pour water out of it too soon after it had boiled it would spit a plume of scoulding liquid about a foot past the mug. Too much pressure for too small a spout I suspect, and extremely dangerous to boot. It also made a loud beeping sound whenever it was turned on and also when it boiled. Just what you want first thing in the morning or last thing at night when the house is silent and the kids are soundly sleeping. I doubt whether the Which magazine reviewer of that product had ever even switched it on. Hopefully it is clear what I am saying...
Good analogy.
 

radiorog

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Jan 1, 2013
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insider9 said:
Gazzip said:
insider9 said:
Gazzip said:
davidf said:
Al ears said:
I fail to see how it's a hifi system as well, don't they require a source of some sort?
TIDAL, Spotify, internet radio and Bluetooth count as sources. Hi-Fi systems have inputs too, as these do, and they'll stream anything on your network.
...just not gaplessly, so it won't stream classical music, opera or dj mixes very well at all.
Is it only Tidal that suggest from lack of gapless or all of the services? (not including Bluetooth)
The DLNA network player will not play gaplessly.
That's shocking! Gets 1 star docked for me instantly and out of the running for any awards. You can't overlook flaws in basic functionality however good it may sound (I know this is also debatable).

For instance Yamaha WXC-50 won't do Tidal gapless but other playback including Tidal via UPnp is fine. Not great so would go in the Against on the review, should there was one.
Just one star, you are generous. When you hear them, no matter how good they sound, when you realise they won't play a Pink Floyd album without gaps in-between each track, on any streaming service, it is crossed off the list of possible buys immediately. For me anyway. Guess it depends if you like Pink Floyd.
 
S

SemiChronic

Guest
Funny that, my CA thing does gapless but not Tidal unless airplayed 24/48 therefore not 16/44.1, which apparently saws the legs off everything and kittens die.

But then everything that goes through it is upsampled and unicorns run free . .

Why is 24/48 utter schiit compared to 16/44.1 apparently?
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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SemiChronic said:
Funny that, my CA thing does gapless but not Tidal unless airplayed 24/48 therefore not 16/44.1, which apparently saws the legs off everything and kittens die. 

But then everything that goes through it is upsampled and unicorns run free . . 

Why is 24/48 utter schiit compared to 16/44.1 apparently?
I'd check as Tidal updated its app and I believe it supports Chromecast Audio...
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
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SemiChronic said:
Why is 24/48 utter schiit compared to 16/44.1 apparently?
It isn't really, but let's say even if there was no dispute that HD audio makes much of a difference (count me as very much of an unconvinced fence sitter), it doesn't hold much of an advantage over 16/44 to be worth bothering about. Could easily be argued that 24/48 would have been a better standard to begin with for CDs, because everything about it more comfortably outperforms the minimum specs defined by the Nyquist-Shannon theorem. But the price of 24-bit DACs was probably stratospheric and 700Mb CDs would only have lasted about 45 minutes. (DAT was 48kHz though.)
 

Al ears

Moderator
MajorFubar said:
SemiChronic said:
Why is 24/48 utter schiit compared to 16/44.1 apparently?
It isn't really, but let's say even if there was no dispute that HD audio makes much of a difference (count me as very much of an unconvinced fence sitter), it doesn't hold much of an advantage over 16/44 to be worth bothering about. Could easily be argued that 24/48 would have been a better standard to begin with for CDs, because everything about it more comfortably outperforms the minimum specs defined by the Nyquist-Shannon theorem. But the price of 24-bit DACs was probably stratospheric and 700Mb CDs would only have lasted about 45 minutes. (DAT was 48kHz though.)
+1

Choose to stream and you are always going to be hamstrung on quality both from providers and your broadband connection.
 

insider9

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bigboss said:
I frankly don't understand why people are bothered so much about gapless playback. Just wait for a couple of seconds for the next song!
Try listening to a live recording and you'll know why. It ruins the experience.
 

Gazzip

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Jan 15, 2011
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bigboss said:
I frankly don't understand why people are bothered so much about gapless playback. Just wait for a couple of seconds for the next song!
Not that simple. I have approx 300 DJ mix CD’s from the 90’s which are actually quite a lot about the way those “songs” join together. Seamlessly. Have you ever tried listening to Pink Floyd or Muse without gapless? How about live opera and classical that will often ebb and flow for an hour or so with no gap? Or any live concert music for that matter!
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
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bigboss said:
I frankly don't understand why people are bothered so much about gapless playback. Just wait for a couple of seconds for the next song!
It is probably fine if you listen to “songs”. But opera, concept rock albums, anything live and tracked, and it will be spoiled by artificial gaps. Not acceptable even five years ago on a budget streamer.
 
S

SemiChronic

Guest
I was wondering why some people throw a wobbler about airplay converting to 24/48 and not passing thru 16/44.1 . . like its robbing/violating the music.

Like if its not 16/44.1 then its just not real or pure.
 

daveh75

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2008
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Al ears said:
Choose to stream and you are always going to be hamstrung on quality both from providers and your broadband connection.
Clicky

A) It's easily demonstrated that HD/High-res audio is largely pointless

B) Despite an ageing infrastructure that operators are only just coming around to the notion that it needs replacing rather than 'sweating' for ever more, the truth is we're now at a point that most households have access to broadband that can adequately stream HD video, so piddly audio streams are child's play

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/100761/UK-home-broadband-performance,-November-2016-Technical-report.pdf
 

Blacksabbath25

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Sep 20, 2015
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insider9 said:
bigboss said:
I frankly don't understand why people are bothered so much about gapless playback. Just wait for a couple of seconds for the next song!
Try listening to a live recording and you'll know why. It ruins the experience.
I agree I am new to tidal and listened to some live albums like David Gilmore new live album and the gaps really kills the experience of a live concert .
 

spiny norman

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jjbomber said:
I thought Davidf had gone. Sort of David not at Frank Harvey was now David not at WhatHiFI forum.
He's just having a more Platonic relationship with the forum these days.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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Blacksabbath25 said:
insider9 said:
bigboss said:
I frankly don't understand why people are bothered so much about gapless playback. Just wait for a couple of seconds for the next song!
Try listening to a live recording and you'll know why. It ruins the experience.
I agree I am new to tidal and listened to some live albums like David Gilmore new live album and the gaps really kills the experience of a live concert .
If you like you can use BubbleUPnp with Yamaha WXC-50. It will do Tidal gapless. Full version is only a few pounds. Free version will let you test it out.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
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insider9 said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
insider9 said:
bigboss said:
I frankly don't understand why people are bothered so much about gapless playback. Just wait for a couple of seconds for the next song!
Try listening to a live recording and you'll know why. It ruins the experience.
I agree I am new to tidal and listened to some live albums like David Gilmore new live album and the gaps really kills the experience of a live concert .
If you like you can use BubbleUPnp with Yamaha WXC-50. It will do Tidal gapless. Full version is only a few pounds. Free version will let you test it out.
thanks is that software an app from iTunes ?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
739
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Blacksabbath25 said:
insider9 said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
insider9 said:
bigboss said:
I frankly don't understand why people are bothered so much about gapless playback. Just wait for a couple of seconds for the next song!
Try listening to a live recording and you'll know why. It ruins the experience.
I agree I am new to tidal and listened to some live albums like David Gilmore new live album and the gaps really kills the experience of a live concert .
If you like you can use BubbleUPnp with Yamaha WXC-50. It will do Tidal gapless. Full version is only a few pounds. Free version will let you test it out.
thanks is that software an app from iTunes ?
It's an Android app. If you're using an iPhone (iOS device) just use Airplay with Tidal's own app.

I've used Airplay briefly but preferred Upnp. That's before Yamaha introduced native Tidal support.
 

Gazzip

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Jan 15, 2011
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davidf said:
jjbomber said:
spiny norman said:
davidf said:
The first few seconds of every track are gone now? Even worse.
I thought Davidf had gone. Sort of David not at Frank Harvey was now David not at WhatHiFI forum.
Gone as in no noise at the beginning of a track. There’s just a short silence. Gapless will come.
I don’t doubt it will come, but it’s not here now so it certainly wasn’t here when WHF reviewed the LS50W’s. The distortion noise at the beginning of every track was however loud, clear and present (but not mentioned at all) when WHF reviewed the product, gave it 5 stars and subsequently a best of category Award 2017. A category (Best System) I might add that would specifically require the bit that doesn’t work properly to work properly.

How can anyone possibly take WHF recommendations seriously going forwards? I will certainly never trust them again. I think that the LS50W’s had won that award before they were even out of their box. I really do. It stinks to high heaven.
 
There’s been plenty of products getting 5 stars and awards despite not having a smooth running control app. Some manufacturers address this, some don’t. At least KEF are. I’m currently making big noises at them to make this the next thing to eradicate. End users can also report issues via the app - it obviously doesn’t seem to bother many people enough to report it, otherwise I guess it would’ve been higher up on the priority list.
 

Gazzip

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Jan 15, 2011
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spiny norman said:
davidf said:
There’s been plenty of products getting 5 stars and awards despite not having a smooth running control app.
So is the lack of gapless down to the app?
I doubt it. Surely it’s a firmware issue, although the fact it hasn’t been sorted yet could indicate a deeper problem.

A “system” is defined as a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network; a complex whole.

The LS50W’s should not have won the best system award this year. Simple as that. Best loudspeakers would have been okay, best system is not okay.
 

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