Isolation feet

[CnoEvil]

They are beautifully made. I put mine under my DAC and pre-amplifier while it was playing music and I could hear the sound improve in realtime. Not night and day just a little more soundstage. Sounds like BS and many will say it is but I am really happy with the results. The guy who sells them (Kridon is his name I think?) offers a money back guarantee as long as you pay postage so very little to lose by trying them IMHO.

My Linn DS lives on a diet of Black Ravioli and is all the better for it.

I also did a similar (blind) test and could hear in realtime, whether pads were being added or taken away.....but since it's all in my head, I don't talk about it too much, in case I contaminate other minds with my heresy. *unknw*

 

[Gazzip]

They are beautifully made. I put mine under my DAC and pre-amplifier while it was playing music and I could hear the sound improve in realtime. Not night and day just a little more soundstage. Sounds like BS and many will say it is but I am really happy with the results. The guy who sells them (Kridon is his name I think?) offers a money back guarantee as long as you pay postage so very little to lose by trying them IMHO.

My Linn DS lives on a diet of Black Ravioli and is all the better for it.

I also did a similar (blind) test and could hear in realtime, whether pads were being added or taken away.....but since it's all in my head, I don't talk about it too much, in case I contaminate other minds with my heresy. *unknw*

I have a box full of the black pasta. I really liked it but found it impossible to stack them on top of one another 'cos they kept slipping off. That said I only have front access to my rack and I guess if I could have lifted my kit straight on to it without tilting it things might have been different.

 

[ellisdj]

You should try them Cno. They are excellent but you need several sets and to take your time fitting them. I bet the ravioli ends up in ebay

I would have put them under the ps audio power plant gazzip mate. Under my Titan was where my first set went and thats where roy gregory suggests you start - speakers first then follow the power.

 

[Gazzip]

The capacitors and resistors found in HiFi equipment are microphonic, but these days with small surface mount components stuck onto a rigid board, the effects are probably inaudible.

A quick way to check:

1. Put your CD player on pause.

2. Turn the volume way, way up

3. Tap each device in the signal chain with the end of a pencil. A 'boing' out the speaker indicates the device has microphonic components in it and possibly some sort of acoustic feet might make a difference. No 'boing' (and there probably won't be), then any money you have spent on feet will have been wasted, and I am afraid any improvement you have heard is just suggestion bias.

I would have thought that the materials used to make the capacitors, resistors and even the rigid circuit board inside our electronics would each have their own acoustic resonant frequency. This could be down in the 20Hz region and below or right up in to the KHz region and beyond, and could potentially create a microphonic effect through self-vibration at their given resonant frequency. (Look up Tacoma Narrows on YouTube for an dramatic example of resonant frequency)

Tapping a pencil on your kit isn't going to expose it to the full range of frequencies that a loudspeaker can produce, but playing recorded music will.

I have bought a couple of sets of CeraDiscs on ellisdj's recommendation and I am very happy with them under my DAC and valve amplifier. DAC's are full of sensitive oscillators don't forget...

A tap is very similar to the type of theoretical pulse used to characterise impulse response, and actually comprises a very wide range of frequencies. If you have the volume way up, and there is no sound when you tap a device, it is not microphonic.

You can try this by comparing your DAC (which isn't full of sensitive oscillators) and almost certainly isn't microphonic, with your valve amp which will be very microphonic. I would suggest you don't have the volume up too high when you tap the valves, it might startle the cat.

There is an argument that a valve amp should be in a separate room to the speakers. The characteristic sound of a Marshall valve combo was in part due to the feedback from the speaker to valves in the amp.

- just to add, 'self vibration' would require the components to change in shape with applied voltage. This is something piezo crystals do, which is why they make good oscillators. Capacitors and resistors do not.

I would say that the crystal oscillators as present in many DACs and CD Players, [/b]that use the mechanical resonance of a vibrating crystal[/b] of piezoelectric material to create an electrical signal with a precise frequency, might be a little sensitive to...ermmm... vibrations?

By self vibration I meant they would themselves vibrate when exposed to their own resonant frequency. Crossed wires there. I should have been clearer.

So does it matter in general electronic circuits? I can guarantee to you that your electronics as with anything else can start to oscillate – ie vibrate at a regular rate – when exposed to sound waves. This is a fact. If these vibrations happen to occur at the resonance frequency of those electronic components, then oscillation generates excitation at an atomic level within those components, where more and more energy is stored. Does such atomic excitation have an affect on the electrical signal is the big question. Remind yourself of what part sub-atomic electrons play in electrical conduction. Many think such atomic vibrations can causes jitter in the digital domain and I would certainly like to eliminate as much of it as I can on that basis alone.

 

[seemorebtts]

 

www.plinth-design.com  -If you look at this site - look down to the item called Cera-Disc - that is the product I helped develop.

Scroll to the bottom of the page - £148 for 4

They are beautifully made. I put mine under my DAC and pre-amplifier while it was playing music and I could hear the sound improve in realtime. Not night and day just a little more soundstage. Sounds like BS and many will say it is but I am really happy with the results. The guy who sells them (Kridon is his name I think?) offers a money back guarantee as long as you pay postage so very little to lose by trying them IMHO.

the one's I'm using at the moment are giving me a larger sound stage but I'm finding my snappy Snares are feeling a bit Woolley.

 

[CnoEvil]

You should try them Cno. They are excellent but you need several sets and to take your time fitting them. I bet the ravioli ends up in ebay

I am not spending any more money on HiFi, or HiFi related products for the foreseeable....unless of course, I get some disposable income from somewhere.

 

[Gazzip]

You should try them Cno. They are excellent but you need several sets and to take your time fitting them. I bet the ravioli ends up in ebay

I would have put them under the ps audio power plant gazzip mate. Under my Titan was where my first set went and thats where roy gregory suggests you start - speakers first then follow the power.

Having read the Stillpoints article/review by Roy Gregory it was on my agenda, but Kridon advised that the Cera-Bases were not made for heavy equipment like that. I must admit this confused me because the two products are very similar...

 

[ellisdj]

I have them under a 30 odd kg amp. But you need to check the weight of the 3 smaller bearings.

I am using 1 large per foot and they hold no probs.

3 smaller performs better than 1 larger i have recently found out lucky you

However if your using the rubber inserts I have found taking them out with multiple bearings per foot is better.

All part of my recent testings. I didnt know that before otherwise I would have said.

 

[ellisdj]

 

www.plinth-design.com  -If you look at this site - look down to the item called Cera-Disc - that is the product I helped develop.

Scroll to the bottom of the page - £148 for 4

They are beautifully made. I put mine under my DAC and pre-amplifier while it was playing music and I could hear the sound improve in realtime. Not night and day just a little more soundstage. Sounds like BS and many will say it is but I am really happy with the results. The guy who sells them (Kridon is his name I think?) offers a money back guarantee as long as you pay postage so very little to lose by trying them IMHO.

the one's I'm using at the moment are giving me a larger sound stage but I'm finding my snappy Snares are feeling a bit Woolley.

That is similar to what i thought with certain ones i tried. It improved things but worsened others that is clearly wrong. However it could be your just used to it sounding wrong with "fat" added to the sound.

I still dont have it 100% cracked but feel am on the right path now at least.

 

[Gaz37]

I'm not sure about vibration damping/isolation, on one hand I read an article on TNT audio which advocated lining the inside of CDP covers with damping material, as I had some I gave it a try and think it has improved LF quality, but I firmly believe in expectation bias so maybe I wanted to hear a difference.
On the other hand, if vibration can have a detrimental effect on SQ and can be eradicated so simply, I would expect manufacturers, especially of high end kit, to fit their products with isolation feet during the design stage?

 

[ellisdj]

people, companies etc have been addressing the issue in different ways for years - kit built into big slabs of aluminium etc or squash balls under speakers.

The interesting one for me is speakers.

I have seen Wilson Audio doing laser based measurements for panel resonance - sure other companies do this as well. So they fine tune their boxes for resonance caused by the pressures inside the box etc.

However I wonder if they also take into account the pressures created by other speakers / subwoofers which could be in extreme close proximity to be almost part of the same speaker in essence?

 

[CnoEvil]

On the other hand, if vibration can have a detrimental effect on SQ and can be eradicated so simply, I would expect manufacturers, especially of high end kit, to fit their products with isolation feet during the design stage?

If they did, on one hand, you'd have Andyjm tapping it with his pencil (sucking his teeth) and resenting the fact he'd paid extra for something that didn't make any difference; on the other hand, you'd have Ellisdj complaining that what they had used, was not as good as his solution.

Manufacturers can't win, so they don't try....all imo.

 

[Al ears]

On the other hand, if vibration can have a detrimental effect on SQ and can be eradicated so simply, I would expect manufacturers, especially of high end kit, to fit their products with isolation feet during the design stage?

If they did, on one hand, you'd have Andyjm tapping it with his pencil (sucking his teeth) and resenting the fact he'd paid extra for something that didn't make any difference; on the other hand, you'd have Ellisdj complaining that what they had used, was not as good as his solution.

Manufacturers can't win, so they don't try....all imo.

Quite possibly. They build a device that is adequate and fit for purpose without a concern about the tweekers out there that might want to improve it by a couple of percentage points. Not worth the extra effort on the part of the manufacturer as they have no idea as to what sort of environment the purchaser is going to use it in.

 

[Vladimir]

Vibration kills good music.

 

[Gazzip]

Vibration kills good music.

Cutting edge reporting...

 

[Vladimir]

Vibration kills good music.

Cutting edge reporting...

Toe curling vs toe tapping experience. Difficult pick.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Im so worried now
All my speakers have amps inside the speaker.

How am i going to isolate them????

The sound will just be soooo distorted
What have i done

 

[ellisdj]

Ebay them quite clearly no good not thought out at all.....
Or just place them on drain type products and you will be

 

[Vladimir]

Ebay them quite clearly no good not thought out at all..... Or just place them on drain type products and you will be

Are your crossovers inside or outside the speaker enclosures? They are very sensitive and microphonic.

 

[ellisdj]

Exactly a design compromise that could be improved.
Even more reason to drain vibration from the speaker.

Edit i bought the ref 3 over the ref 1 as i felt they didnt harden up like the 1's do. I put that down to the crossover being further away from the pressure sources - that could be irrelevant obviously

I have all my kit and speakers all within 3m of each other and that includes 2 subwoofers that put out a lot of bass. All along a boundary in a room where there is high pressure and bass build up same as every room..

Maybe thats why the effect is so high for me I have a lot of low end output and therefore maybe a lot of problem.

 

[Vladimir]

Exactly a design compromise that could be improved. Even more reason to drain vibration from the speaker.

I have all my kit and speakers all within 3m of each other and that includes 2 subwoofers that put out a lot of bass. All along a boundary in a room where there is high pressure and bass build up same as every room..

Maybe thats why the effect is so high for me I have a lot of low end output and therefore maybe a lot of problem.

You should use a decompression chamber after each listening session (like after deep diving) with such huge bass pressure. Health first mate.