Is Spotify already high res?

[podknocker]

I don't know what happened 3 days ago, but my Spotify suddenly sounds much better. I play the same dozen or so playlists nearly every day and I'm familiar with the sound quality, but there's been a change somewhere and I'm struggling to work out what this is. My DTS PlayFi app had an update a week ago and my Audiolab Omnia went through the usual upgrade cycle, but there wasn't a change in sound quality. This happened 3 days ago and it's like listening to nearly CD quality now. The sound 'hangs' between and around my speakers and there are many more layers and panning effects now. It's so clear and busy with detail and the subtle micro dynamics, but not congested at all. I know it sounds better, but I don't know how or why. Has anyone else noticed an increase in clarity and detail recently. in their favourite tunes? I'm bewildered to be honest and I can't see any point in upgrading now. There isn't an obvious and large increase in treble detail, which I do require, but the midrange and all these panning synth effects and little details are very much improved. It's a mystery. If I upgrade and get more top end sparkle, I'm worried I'll lose all the stuff I'm loving now. I'm currently listening to The Eagles greatest hits 2013 remaster, which I've played 200 times this year and I'm hearing stuff I've never heard before. Crackers.

 

[jjbomber]

HD-AAC.

 

[Revolutions]

If there’s no increase in clarity with the treble, I’d hazard a guess it’s not Spotify. That’s the one giveaway I can always hear in an a/b with Spotify vs tidal (when volume matched).

 

[podknocker]

HD-AAC.

Not sure how this is relevant. I do know DTS PlayFi turns any stream into FLAC and it's resampled at 16bit 44kHz, but obviously you can't add data that's not there in the first place. My system sounds amazing now and I don't know why. I don't think an upgrade is going to happen for a long time.

 

[Rodolfo]

I don't know what happened 3 days ago, but my Spotify suddenly sounds much better. I play the same dozen or so playlists nearly every day and I'm familiar with the sound quality, but there's been a change somewhere and I'm struggling to work out what this is. My DTS PlayFi app had an update a week ago and my Audiolab Omnia went through the usual upgrade cycle, but there wasn't a change in sound quality. This happened 3 days ago and it's like listening to nearly CD quality now. The sound 'hangs' between and around my speakers and there are many more layers and panning effects now. It's so clear and busy with detail and the subtle micro dynamics, but not congested at all. I know it sounds better, but I don't know how or why. Has anyone else noticed an increase in clarity and detail recently. in their favourite tunes? I'm bewildered to be honest and I can't see any point in upgrading now. There isn't an obvious and large increase in treble detail, which I do require, but the midrange and all these panning synth effects and little details are very much improved. It's a mystery. If I upgrade and get more top end sparkle, I'm worried I'll lose all the stuff I'm loving now. I'm currently listening to The Eagles greatest hits 2013 remaster, which I've played 200 times this year and I'm hearing stuff I've never heard before. Crackers.

Hopeful report, for sure. They also just announced their podcast head is leaving. She led the company's pivot to podcasts (and mine to Amazon Music); so, maybe these are signals of a re-pivoting to music.

If meaningful, I'd expect to see improvement claims and reports on business and other channels, including WHF.

 

[jjbomber]

it's like a new format. I can't explain it.

HD-AAC. Premium customers only.

 

[Romulus]

Spotify sounds very nice with my headphones in all genres of music but I don't listen to Tidal, Deezer or Roon so I don't know any better streaming quality music...

 

[manicm]

HD-AAC. Premium customers only.

There's no such thing as 'HD-AAC' just a higher bitrate.

	Spotify free	Spotify Premium
Web player	AAC 128kbit/s	AAC 256kbit/s
Desktop, mobile, and tablet	Automatic: Dependent on your network connection Low: Equivalent to approximately 24kbit/s Normal: Equivalent to approximately 96kbit/s High: Equivalent to approximately 160kbit/s	Automatic: Dependent on your network connection Low: Equivalent to approximately 24kbit/s Normal: Equivalent to approximately 96kbit/s High: Equivalent to approximately 160kbit/s Very high: Equivalent to approximately 320kbit/s

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

There's no such thing as 'HD-AAC' just a higher bitrate.

	Spotify free	Spotify Premium
Web player	AAC 128kbit/s	AAC 256kbit/s
Desktop, mobile, and tablet	Automatic: Dependent on your network connection Low: Equivalent to approximately 24kbit/s Normal: Equivalent to approximately 96kbit/s High: Equivalent to approximately 160kbit/s	Automatic: Dependent on your network connection Low: Equivalent to approximately 24kbit/s Normal: Equivalent to approximately 96kbit/s High: Equivalent to approximately 160kbit/s Very high: Equivalent to approximately 320kbit/s

So when I run it WiiM Mini to Topping E30 II (which shows the b/r) it should suggest higher rates on the basis of the above?

 

[manicm]

So when I run it WiiM Mini to Topping E30 II (which shows the b/r) it should suggest higher rates on the basis of the above?

Yes, assuming you've set the appropriate audio quality settings in Spotify Premium - when you install the app it won't necessarily default to the highest quality.

 

[Vincent Kars]

So when I run it WiiM Mini to Topping E30 II (which shows the b/r) it should suggest higher rates on the basis of the above?

I would be surprised if a dac displays a bit rate as this is exactly how it doesn't work.
The WiiM recieve a 128 kbs AAC (or any other audio format). This is decoded to linear PCM and send as such using SPDIF to the DAC. The DAC displays the properties of the LPCM, never the properties of the audio file.

 

[manicm]

I would be surprised if a dac displays a bit rate as this is exactly how it doesn't work.
The WiiM recieve a 128 kbs AAC (or any other audio format). This is decoded to linear PCM and send as such using SPDIF to the DAC. The DAC displays the properties of the LPCM, never the properties of the audio file.

Ah my mistake, but the bitrate SHOULD show on the WiiM App while playing.

 

[podknocker]

The Spotify and DTS PlayFi apps on my phone are set to the highest quality and have been from the start. My tunes do sound better than they did up to the other week, so I don't know what's changed. It's possible the update to my Omnia did improve things and it took me a few days to realise. The technical data on the Spotify site does say audio quality is up to 320kbps Ogg/Vorbis. I doubt Spotify will give premium users any high res service now. It's been on the cards for years and I can't see it happening now.

 

[mr.Vox]

Very interesting. I canceled my TIDAL subscription yesterday just because I was having synchronization issues between my devices. Mostly the app randomly stopped. There were also issues with the android app on my cell phone were I could not listen offline music I had downloaded. I had to wait until it started playing pressing play and stop again and again. Never had issues with Spotify but the quality at least at home where I have a quite expensive system was not what i wanted. I have about 20 days left so i can still listen to TIDAL. Then I will pay for Spotify again to see how is it going. Sound quality is important but those issues using TIDAL is something worst than mp3 quality sound.

 

[abacus]

The Spotify and DTS PlayFi apps on my phone are set to the highest quality and have been from the start. My tunes do sound better than they did up to the other week, so I don't know what's changed. It's possible the update to my Omnia did improve things and it took me a few days to realise. The technical data on the Spotify site does say audio quality is up to 320kbps Ogg/Vorbis. I doubt Spotify will give premium users any high res service now. It's been on the cards for years and I can't see it happening now.

Ogg\Vorbis (Which Spotify used to use) is different to the current AAC codec, so yes there has been a change, but it still lossy, just a better sounding lossy.

Bill

 

[daveh75]

but it still lossy, just a better sounding lossy.

Bill

Its more efficient.... I doubt there's a perceptible difference in SQ between 320kbps OGG and 256kbps AAC though

 

[Revolutions]

Didn't spotify move to AAC years ago?

 

[Messiah]

Their website suggests web player is AAC but everything else is OGG.

(As per the screenshot above).

 

[jomitch]

I don't know what happened 3 days ago, but my Spotify suddenly sounds much better. I play the same dozen or so playlists nearly every day and I'm familiar with the sound quality, but there's been a change somewhere and I'm struggling to work out what this is. My DTS PlayFi app had an update a week ago and my Audiolab Omnia went through the usual upgrade cycle, but there wasn't a change in sound quality. This happened 3 days ago and it's like listening to nearly CD quality now. The sound 'hangs' between and around my speakers and there are many more layers and panning effects now. It's so clear and busy with detail and the subtle micro dynamics, but not congested at all. I know it sounds better, but I don't know how or why. Has anyone else noticed an increase in clarity and detail recently. in their favourite tunes? I'm bewildered to be honest and I can't see any point in upgrading now. There isn't an obvious and large increase in treble detail, which I do require, but the midrange and all these panning synth effects and little details are very much improved. It's a mystery. If I upgrade and get more top end sparkle, I'm worried I'll lose all the stuff I'm loving now. I'm currently listening to The Eagles greatest hits 2013 remaster, which I've played 200 times this year and I'm hearing stuff I've never heard before. Crackers.

I can't confirm the difference you have found but compared with the likes of Qobuz and Tidal, Spotify does seem to have more pace and timing. Also the mid range and upper bass, do come over as more natural and is often more engaging to my ears, than some of the more transparent Hi Res streams. Perhaps Spotify thought it might lose that if it went Hi Res. Hence the long delay in going down the route it had promised several years ago. Also, as It has the biggest number of subscribers, it probably feels they are happy with the current quality.

 

[Rodolfo]

There's no such thing as 'HD-AAC' just a higher bitrate.

	Spotify free	Spotify Premium
Web player	AAC 128kbit/s	AAC 256kbit/s
Desktop, mobile, and tablet	Automatic: Dependent on your network connection Low: Equivalent to approximately 24kbit/s Normal: Equivalent to approximately 96kbit/s High: Equivalent to approximately 160kbit/s	Automatic: Dependent on your network connection Low: Equivalent to approximately 24kbit/s Normal: Equivalent to approximately 96kbit/s High: Equivalent to approximately 160kbit/s Very high: Equivalent to approximately 320kbit/s

Even about 5 years ago, when Amazon launched HD and Ultra-HD (and initially, charging more for it) its regular Prime service was already at 320kbps. Also, I still have downloads from Microsoft's Groove Music Pass service from ~10 years ago and most are at 320kbps; the rest are at 256kbps. As many know, 320kbps was and is the highest/best lossy/low-resolution MP3 available.

So, Spotify has now caught up to Groove and Prime.

 

[Rodolfo]

I can't confirm the difference you have found but compared with the likes of Qobuz and Tidal, Spotify does seem to have more pace and timing. Also the mid range and upper bass, do come over as more natural and is often more engaging to my ears, than some of the more transparent Hi Res streams. Perhaps Spotify thought it might lose that if it went Hi Res. Hence the long delay in going down the route it had promised several years ago. Also, as It has the biggest number of subscribers, it probably feels they are happy with the current quality.

Doubt the former, but true enough on the latter: Whether subscribers are happy or not, Spotify does continue to report net increases in "monthly active users" and subscribers each financial quarter. I haven't seen any reports on their churn rates. Also, yes, most music-loving mortals don't know nor think about Hi, or any other, Res.

 

[Revolutions]

@podknocker I’ve actually noticed a few recordings that seem more detailed through my AirPod pros.

It’s an utterly unscientific view as I’m only using them on the go, but tracks like make me feel by Janelle Monae sound more alive.

I wonder if Spotify have gone searching for higher-res masters in preparation for cd streaming? Not sure if that would have an effect, and if it does what the difference would actually be.

Still plenty of stuff sounds no different to me, so could just be hearing certain tracks/albums with sparse instrumentation when I’m in a good mood 🙂

 

[podknocker]

@podknocker I’ve actually noticed a few recordings that seem more detailed through my AirPod pros.

It’s an utterly unscientific view as I’m only using them on the go, but tracks like make me feel by Janelle Monae sound more alive.

I wonder if Spotify have gone searching for higher-res masters in preparation for cd streaming? Not sure if that would have an effect, and if it does what the difference would actually be.

Still plenty of stuff sounds no different to me, so could just be hearing certain tracks/albums with sparse instrumentation when I’m in a good mood 🙂

Many on here, including myself have mentioned cable upgrades being pointless, but people do hear an improvement, so it must be the 'expectation bias' providing the change. I wasn't expecting any change, but one day a while back, some of the tunes I play just caught me and I started paying attention to the sound. I do think something's changed, but it could have been the DTS PlayFi uprade to my Omnia and it's suddenly revealing the sound quality it should have all along. Perhaps there was a setting this side and it was not enabled their side and now it is. No idea, but there is an improvement. Loads of detail and sounds really clean, for want of a better word. There is more stuff coming out of the speakers and I'm loving it. It's making me think twice about the Rega Aya upgrade, when I get an audition in the shop. I'm now wondering if £1500 of speakers will actually equate to much of an improvement.

 

[Pedro2]

I think that many dedicated streamers running Spotify Connect upsample the bitrate and this is then displayed. I’m pretty sure that our Linn streamer does this but I’ll have to wait a few hours to test this as playing Spotify at 6:11am on a Saturday morning is not going to go down well with the rest of my family!

One other factor here may also relate to compression rates of the music file. I watched a Darko YouTube recently that asked why many listeners prefer vinyl playback to a HiRes file of the same track. The answer appears to lie in compression and dynamic range - with vinyl often (not always) having a higher dynamic range and lower compression. I’m not sure if Spotify somehow manages to play at a higher dynamic range than some other services but if so, many listeners will like what they hear . You may have come across this without knowing why, when a certain track suddenly sounds loud from the off and you reach for the volume control to turn it down.

Compression increased and dynamic range decreased from the mid 80s onwards when the music industry decided that we all needed to be hit around the head with permanently high volume levels to make everything sound exciting.

Apologies for the long post - I probably need more sleep! Anyway check out the Darko YouTube - it’s good. And I use both Spotify and Qobuz with Spotify preferred most of the time as its interface and library are the best. Sound quality of Connect is also usually very good too.

Edit : Just checked on the Linn App when Spotify is playing and it’s showing PCM 44.1/16 bit which is CD quality. Now I’m sure that the highest that Spotify puts out is 320bps so the DAC is upsampliing. There must be a good reason for doing this but I’m not technically knowledgeable enough to know why.