Is it worth the money?

[Al ears]

My denon sounds fine with my metal platter..my mates dl103 sounds good on his metal platter linn too...i use a suede slip mat.

I think its to do with magnetic force will pull the cartridge towards the platter. Denon warn against using them with metal platters. The Linn platter is zinc/al alloy I believe, so not magnetic.

I cannot think of anyone these days that uses a steel platter and that's about the only thing that could be magnetic.

I thought Nottingham used steel? Pro-ject? And a lot of older TTs.

I believe most are aluminium or alloy. Nottingham might but I actually think they are alloy, how many turntables do they sell these days anyway, I wonder. ;-)

Also I cannot think of any older turntables that used iron or steel platters.

Really. I read on Pro-ject site it was steel, maybe not 100%, some older TTs had stainless steel, like Roksan? Some platters are heavy they would not use AL if they wanted the weight. Anyway I have read of problems with Pro-jest and Denon MC cartridges, tracking force if nothing else.

I'd like to see where it states the cheaper Project platters are steel. The Elemental et al use particle board. The bearing support is, however, steel.

Current Roksan and all models I recall have aluminium and alloy platters.

 

[BigH]

My denon sounds fine with my metal platter..my mates dl103 sounds good on his metal platter linn too...i use a suede slip mat.

I think its to do with magnetic force will pull the cartridge towards the platter. Denon warn against using them with metal platters. The Linn platter is zinc/al alloy I believe, so not magnetic.

I cannot think of anyone these days that uses a steel platter and that's about the only thing that could be magnetic.

I thought Nottingham used steel? Pro-ject? And a lot of older TTs.

I believe most are aluminium or alloy. Nottingham might but I actually think they are alloy, how many turntables do they sell these days anyway, I wonder. ;-)

Also I cannot think of any older turntables that used iron or steel platters.

Really. I read on Pro-ject site it was steel, maybe not 100%, some older TTs had stainless steel, like Roksan? Some platters are heavy they would not use AL if they wanted the weight. Anyway I have read of problems with Pro-jest and Denon MC cartridges, tracking force if nothing else.

I'd like to see where it states the cheaper Project platters are steel. The Elemental et al use particle board. The bearing support is, however, steel.

Current Roksan and all models I recall have aluminium and alloy platters.

Here: http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut

1.3kg balanced steel platter.

 

[Al ears]

My denon sounds fine with my metal platter..my mates dl103 sounds good on his metal platter linn too...i use a suede slip mat.

I think its to do with magnetic force will pull the cartridge towards the platter. Denon warn against using them with metal platters. The Linn platter is zinc/al alloy I believe, so not magnetic.

I cannot think of anyone these days that uses a steel platter and that's about the only thing that could be magnetic.

I thought Nottingham used steel? Pro-ject? And a lot of older TTs.

I believe most are aluminium or alloy. Nottingham might but I actually think they are alloy, how many turntables do they sell these days anyway, I wonder. ;-)

Also I cannot think of any older turntables that used iron or steel platters.

Really. I read on Pro-ject site it was steel, maybe not 100%, some older TTs had stainless steel, like Roksan? Some platters are heavy they would not use AL if they wanted the weight. Anyway I have read of problems with Pro-jest and Denon MC cartridges, tracking force if nothing else.

I'd like to see where it states the cheaper Project platters are steel. The Elemental et al use particle board. The bearing support is, however, steel.

Current Roksan and all models I recall have aluminium and alloy platters.

Here: http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut

1.3kg balanced steel platter.

Aha! Many thanks. I was looking at their cheaper models assuming they would be the culprits if any. No wonder they are offering acrylic platters as a replacement option.

Bit of an error on Projects part eh? Many other manufacturers opted to work with non-magnetic materials years ago, even Rega.

Yet another reason I wouldn't touch a modern cheapish turntable.

Message to Protect:- if you want a heavy platter then make a thicker alloy one or employ brass inserts.......

 

[BigH]

My denon sounds fine with my metal platter..my mates dl103 sounds good on his metal platter linn too...i use a suede slip mat.

I think its to do with magnetic force will pull the cartridge towards the platter. Denon warn against using them with metal platters. The Linn platter is zinc/al alloy I believe, so not magnetic.

I cannot think of anyone these days that uses a steel platter and that's about the only thing that could be magnetic.

I thought Nottingham used steel? Pro-ject? And a lot of older TTs.

I believe most are aluminium or alloy. Nottingham might but I actually think they are alloy, how many turntables do they sell these days anyway, I wonder. ;-)

Also I cannot think of any older turntables that used iron or steel platters.

Really. I read on Pro-ject site it was steel, maybe not 100%, some older TTs had stainless steel, like Roksan? Some platters are heavy they would not use AL if they wanted the weight. Anyway I have read of problems with Pro-jest and Denon MC cartridges, tracking force if nothing else.

I'd like to see where it states the cheaper Project platters are steel. The Elemental et al use particle board. The bearing support is, however, steel.

Current Roksan and all models I recall have aluminium and alloy platters.

Here: http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut

1.3kg balanced steel platter.

Aha! Many thanks. I was looking at their cheaper models assuming they would be the culprits if any. No wonder they are offering acrylic platters as a replacement option.

Bit of an error on Projects part eh? Many other manufacturers opted to work with non-magnetic materials years ago, even Rega.

Yet another reason I wouldn't touch a modern cheapish turntable.

Message to Protect:- if you want a heavy platter then make a thicker alloy one or employ brass inserts.......

Yes something to consider and I was considering one. The Debut is fairly cheap though its about £260? I have heard that some materials like AL are not so easy to work with so I guess steel is the cheaper option, some people complain some alloys are never flat. Acrylic seems a good choice but its not cheap at around £100.

 

[Jim_W]

My denon sounds fine with my metal platter..my mates dl103 sounds good on his metal platter linn too...i use a suede slip mat.

I think its to do with magnetic force will pull the cartridge towards the platter. Denon warn against using them with metal platters. The Linn platter is zinc/al alloy I believe, so not magnetic.

I cannot think of anyone these days that uses a steel platter and that's about the only thing that could be magnetic.

I thought Nottingham used steel? Pro-ject? And a lot of older TTs.

I believe most are aluminium or alloy. Nottingham might but I actually think they are alloy, how many turntables do they sell these days anyway, I wonder. ;-)

Also I cannot think of any older turntables that used iron or steel platters.

Really. I read on Pro-ject site it was steel, maybe not 100%, some older TTs had stainless steel, like Roksan? Some platters are heavy they would not use AL if they wanted the weight. Anyway I have read of problems with Pro-jest and Denon MC cartridges, tracking force if nothing else.

I'd like to see where it states the cheaper Project platters are steel. The Elemental et al use particle board. The bearing support is, however, steel.

Current Roksan and all models I recall have aluminium and alloy platters.

Here: http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut

1.3kg balanced steel platter.

Aha! Many thanks. I was looking at their cheaper models assuming they would be the culprits if any. No wonder they are offering acrylic platters as a replacement option.

Bit of an error on Projects part eh? Many other manufacturers opted to work with non-magnetic materials years ago, even Rega.

Yet another reason I wouldn't touch a modern cheapish turntable.

Message to Protect:- if you want a heavy platter then make a thicker alloy one or employ brass inserts.......

Yes something to consider and I was considering one. The Debut is fairly cheap though its about £260? I have heard that some materials like AL are not so easy to work with so I guess steel is the cheaper option, some people complain some alloys are never flat. Acrylic seems a good choice but its not cheap at around £100.

My daughter has a Debut 111 with the steel platter so I have heard one; I always thought it sounded pretty good for a budget turntable, given that the Ortofon OM5e must be replaced and preferably with an Audio Technica cart. I'll try and find the forum and the thread I was reading last night; a guy decided to replace the steel platter on his Debut 111 with an acrylic platter and a cork mat. His methodolgy was scientific, trying the acrylic platter first with the supplied felt mat and then trying both acrylic platter and cork mat together. To cut a long story short, he concluded that the steel platter gave life/desirable resonances to the overall sound whereas the acrylic platter seemed to suck the life out of the music. The cork mat was an improvement with the steel platter. Evidence then to suggest that, whilst being built to a budget, manufacturers of cheaper turntables know exactly what they're doing even if we think they could have improved certain aspects of the spec. Having said that, it is a given that replacing bundled carts will improve sound quality and often quite substantially.

 

[Al ears]

My denon sounds fine with my metal platter..my mates dl103 sounds good on his metal platter linn too...i use a suede slip mat.

I think its to do with magnetic force will pull the cartridge towards the platter. Denon warn against using them with metal platters. The Linn platter is zinc/al alloy I believe, so not magnetic.

I cannot think of anyone these days that uses a steel platter and that's about the only thing that could be magnetic.

I thought Nottingham used steel? Pro-ject? And a lot of older TTs.

I believe most are aluminium or alloy. Nottingham might but I actually think they are alloy, how many turntables do they sell these days anyway, I wonder. ;-)

Also I cannot think of any older turntables that used iron or steel platters.

Really. I read on Pro-ject site it was steel, maybe not 100%, some older TTs had stainless steel, like Roksan? Some platters are heavy they would not use AL if they wanted the weight. Anyway I have read of problems with Pro-jest and Denon MC cartridges, tracking force if nothing else.

I'd like to see where it states the cheaper Project platters are steel. The Elemental et al use particle board. The bearing support is, however, steel.

Current Roksan and all models I recall have aluminium and alloy platters.

Here: http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut

1.3kg balanced steel platter.

Aha! Many thanks. I was looking at their cheaper models assuming they would be the culprits if any. No wonder they are offering acrylic platters as a replacement option.

Bit of an error on Projects part eh? Many other manufacturers opted to work with non-magnetic materials years ago, even Rega.

Yet another reason I wouldn't touch a modern cheapish turntable.

Message to Protect:- if you want a heavy platter then make a thicker alloy one or employ brass inserts.......

Yes something to consider and I was considering one. The Debut is fairly cheap though its about £260? I have heard that some materials like AL are not so easy to work with so I guess steel is the cheaper option, some people complain some alloys are never flat. Acrylic seems a good choice but its not cheap at around £100.

My daughter has a Debut 111 with the steel platter so I have heard one; I always thought it sounded pretty good for a budget turntable, given that the Ortofon OM5e must be replaced and preferably with an Audio Technica cart. I'll try and find the forum and the thread I was reading last night; a guy decided to replace the steel platter on his Debut 111 with an acrylic platter and a cork mat. His methodolgy was scientific, trying the acrylic platter first with the supplied felt mat and then trying both acrylic platter and cork mat together. To cut a long story short, he concluded that the steel platter gave life/desirable resonances to the overall sound whereas the acrylic platter seemed to suck the life out of the music. The cork mat was an improvement with the steel platter. Evidence then to suggest that, whilst being built to a budget, manufacturers of cheaper turntables know exactly what they're doing even if we think they could have improved certain aspects of the spec. Having said that, it is a given that replacing bundled carts will improve sound quality and often quite substantially.

Couldn't agree more about the cartridges replacement. Not sure about the ethics of producing a turntable that is supposedly good only to then try and get more money out of you by selling 'improvements' . However, that's hi-fi

 

[plastic penguin]

Earlier today spoke to SSAV Epsom and Henleys and they both recommnend upgrading the platter to either plastic or cork. SSAV suggested perhaps the bearings could produce better SQ but Henleys didn't agree. SSAV said that changing the tonearm would also give extra benefits. Guess what Henleys said?

Other than changing the platter both have given conflicting advice. Mmm...

(Drums fingers on desk)

 

[Al ears]

Earlier today spoke to SSAV Epsom and Henleys and they both recommnend upgrading the platter to either plastic or cork. SSAV suggested perhaps the bearings could produce better SQ but Henleys didn't agree. SSAV said that changing the tonearm would also give extra benefits. Guess what Henleys said?

Other than changing the platter both have given conflicting advice. Mmm...

(Drums fingers on desk)

Ho, hum.

I am of the opinion that changing the tonearm could make an improvement if you got the right one. However it's easy to get it wrong and end up with something that is worse or is incompatible with your cartridge. It's a bit of a juggling game.

The only certain way to significantly upgrade is to stick to a cartridge change.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Thanks guys.

I totally understand that a turntable, any make, has one funtion: To spin the platter and record, but surely spending £300-£500 will be a massive overkill for a £200 deck - or have I got this wrong?

My first ClearAudio Classic Wood cartridge cost me £115 (IIRC) back in 2006 and the price for the cartridge went through the roof at nearly £350. My replacement 'Concept' cart cost me £150 (last year).

The more knowledge I gain in this hobby the more confusing it gets.

Your £200 is from 10 years ago? I think yes spending £500 is a sideways move. Maybe you can audition the new Rega 3, it should be at dealers now. I think there is more to it than just spinning a platter, the bearing and motor are important, no doubt you are paying more for better quality thereby reducing vibration and improving sound quality. In the cheaper turntables there are lots of problems it seems with the motor, hum is an issue in some brands. Think about it a £200 turntable costs how much to make £50?

Meant to have said £300-£500 for a cartidge.

I see, yes I tend to agree. But yours is now equilovent to about a £500 TT?

You have a metal platter?

Yes, I would imagine it is, but no doubt Henleys would say otherwise.

The platter is metal of some description (aluminium or an alloy).

...Denon says all metal platters should be avoided...

Do you have quotes/sources about that ?

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

I would like the peoples to explain to me how a metal platter could be so bad. The electrical loads are building in the contact zone between stylus and the disc. Now... is it that bad to have a metal platter that will allow the platter to discharge faster ?

Looks like we are missing something there because I know dozens of absolute amazing metal platter turntable. I, even, find them to sound better than glass and plastic (POM) turntables. The only problem I see is the far higher weight, that need a tough base, and the manufacture problems we have actually (very rare source for regulary shaped platters).

 

[Al ears]

I would like the peoples to explain to me how a metal platter could be so bad. The electrical loads are building in the contact zone between stylus and the disc. Now... is it that bad to have a metal platter that will allow the platter to discharge faster ?

Looks like we are missing something there because I know dozens of absolute amazing metal platter turntable. I, even, find them to sound better than glass and plastic (POM) turntables. The only problem I see is the far higher weight, that need a tough base, and the manufacture problems we have actually (very rare source for regulary shaped platters).

I think you miss the point. We are not talking metal platters per se but steel or iron ones, that is ones that can be magnetic.

Like the pretty pictures though.

Alloys and other metals are often used to provide mass without being affected magnetically.

 

[BigH]

Thanks guys.

I totally understand that a turntable, any make, has one funtion: To spin the platter and record, but surely spending £300-£500 will be a massive overkill for a £200 deck - or have I got this wrong?

My first ClearAudio Classic Wood cartridge cost me £115 (IIRC) back in 2006 and the price for the cartridge went through the roof at nearly £350. My replacement 'Concept' cart cost me £150 (last year).

The more knowledge I gain in this hobby the more confusing it gets.

Your £200 is from 10 years ago? I think yes spending £500 is a sideways move. Maybe you can audition the new Rega 3, it should be at dealers now. I think there is more to it than just spinning a platter, the bearing and motor are important, no doubt you are paying more for better quality thereby reducing vibration and improving sound quality. In the cheaper turntables there are lots of problems it seems with the motor, hum is an issue in some brands. Think about it a £200 turntable costs how much to make £50?

Meant to have said £300-£500 for a cartidge.

I see, yes I tend to agree. But yours is now equilovent to about a £500 TT?

You have a metal platter?

Yes, I would imagine it is, but no doubt Henleys would say otherwise.

The platter is metal of some description (aluminium or an alloy).

...Denon says all metal platters should be avoided...

Do you have quotes/sources about that ?

Plenty of companies/people talk about warnings, presume they are on the cartridge box also about ferrous tools when fitting. From Needledoctor "Unfortunately Denon cartridges will not work work on the Music Hall 2.1 turntable because of the high powered magnet within the cartridge and the metal platter of the record player."

From Henleys UK "Sorry guys but just to clarify a couple of points.

You can't put a moving coil cartridge on a Debut (any variation exc.

Esprit) due to the platter being magnetic. To do this you would need to
change to either an Acrylic or cast platter...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pro-ject-debut-iii-bad.98361/

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=67707

 

[BigH]

I would like the peoples to explain to me how a metal platter could be so bad. The electrical loads are building in the contact zone between stylus and the disc. Now... is it that bad to have a metal platter that will allow the platter to discharge faster ?

Looks like we are missing something there because I know dozens of absolute amazing metal platter turntable. I, even, find them to sound better than glass and plastic (POM) turntables. The only problem I see is the far higher weight, that need a tough base, and the manufacture problems we have actually (very rare source for regulary shaped platters).

Ive read that metal platters can suffer from ringing. Probably why some people use cork mats.