Is a 4k projector really necessary

[Andrewjvt]

I had a very brief demo of the cheaper 4k projector and to me it never really looked any better than 1080p compared to the 4ktv.

I know the projector gives the true cinematic experience unlike the TV that can be fake or too clear on movies.

So if the true cinematic experience is not super hider then maybe a good 1080p projector that has brighter specs a better but unless spending thousands on a higher end one.

What do you guys think

 

[davidf]

4K projectors are for big rooms really. You’ll be able to see a difference at normal screen sizes of 8/9ft or more, but with four times the resolution, you can have a screen four times the size - so imagine moving from a 8ft screen to a 16ft screen with no loss in quality.

 

[Andrewjvt]

4K projectors are for big rooms really. You’ll be able to see a difference at normal screen sizes of 8/9ft or more, but with four times the resolution, you can have a screen four times the size - so imagine moving from a 8ft screen to a 16ft screen with no loss in quality.

That's a given looking at specs but projectors don't look as clear as TV and film are not meant to look super clear like filming from a handy cam.
So my point is I don't think it makes as much difference with projectors as it does with super clarity TV sets

 

[bigboss]

Also depends on which projector you're demoing. Except Sony, most other projectors are "faux 4K". Even though JVC 5900 is faux 4K, the quality is superb. Obviously, the Sony ones are excellent.

They're still not affordable enough for me to make a switch.

 

[abacus]

When you move up to 4K the quality of the lens is of vital importance and the cheaper ones can look no better than HD due to the quality of the lens, however if they have a good lens then the difference between UHD & HD is very noticeable. (Have a look at this video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo9CM2WwSqI which compares 2 of the cheaper models)

Bill

 

[FunkyMonkey]

What a crock of the brown stuff is being spoken about 4k projectors.
As per usual.
No such thing as a faux 4k projector these days. That is an old term for projectors that took a 4k signal but displayed the image as 1080p.
If you see 4k HDR on a projector, it is a 4k projector, no matter how those pixels get to be on the screen.

Now the other thing, lens shmens. I have gone from a very good 1080p image to a so-so 4k and I can honestly say, 1080p signals look better upscaled than they did as 1080p on my old projector.
4k projectors are definitely worth buying but try them out and decide what works for you before you pay your money.
P.s. the screen is more important than the lens.

 

[Andrewjvt]

When you move up to 4K the quality of the lens is of vital importance and the cheaper ones can look no better than HD due to the quality of the lens, however if they have a good lens then the difference between UHD & HD is very noticeable. (Have a look at this video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo9CM2WwSqI which compares 2 of the cheaper models)

Bill

I found that very helpful
Thanks

 

[davidf]

That's a given looking at specs but projectors don't look as clear as TV and film are not meant to look super clear like filming from a handy cam. So my point is I don't think it makes as much difference with projectors as it does with super clarity TV sets

The problem here is that the default settings of TVs include a high sharpness setting. This is making the TV look much sharper than it actually should. Projectors do generally have a softer look (much like film compared to video), but these (genuine) 4K projectors are capable of some pretty stunning pictures.

The material you use to view these projectors with can have a big say in just how good they can look - which film were they showing Andrew? And which 4K PJ was it?

 

[Andrewjvt]

That's a given looking at specs but projectors don't look as clear as TV and film are not meant to look super clear like filming from a handy cam. So my point is I don't think it makes as much difference with projectors as it does with super clarity TV sets

The problem here is that the default settings of TVs include a high sharpness setting. This is making the TV look much sharper than it actually should. Projectors do generally have a softer look (much like film compared to video), but these (genuine) 4K projectors are capable of some pretty stunning pictures. 

The material you use to view these projectors with can have a big say in just how good they can look - which film were they showing Andrew? And which 4K PJ was it?

I think it was angels and demons and benq.

Im going to make a point to test some properly in the future.

 

[davidf]

Bear in mind that some don't take a proper 4K signal, and some that do downscale it, than back up again. I noticed an ad pop up on Facebook for a retailer advertising a 4K PJ, stating "4K", "4K enhanced", and "UHD", but the unit wouldn't natively display a UHD signal as their panels are native 1080. Despite this, the blurb states that you can enjoy UHD Bluray - you can downscale UHD to 1080p on a UHD player too and "enjoy it" - it's just that it won't be full UHD, regardless of the "enhancements" that are then added. Admittedly, a good clean 1080p Bluray upscaled to 4K can look fantastic, but I'm against the use of the above tech phrases being used when they really shouldn't. Sony are about the only company that is very clear on which models are 4K and which aren't - the rest seem to play with words and phrases to create confusion.

Many UHD discs around are of films that have been filmed at 2K rather than 4K. Films with a lot of special effects will have been filmed at 2K, or at least the action scenes will have been filmed at 2K as special effects are only currently undertaken at that resolution - it is currently extremely expensive to render special effects at 4K. If the effects are real and physical, it is more likely to have been filmed in 4K. Older action films with digital effects are more likely to be real UHD rather than modern effects films, as the negative is scanned at 4K and remastered.

There is a website to find out if you're buying a film that was shot in 4K, but bear in mind that if a film that has been captured in 2K, it will have been upscaled by high quality components, not the sort of quality upscaling you find in cheap UHD players and TVs.

http://realorfake4k.com/

 

[davidf]

Stupidly enough, the original Blade Runner has been scanned at 4K and remastered, so you're getting a genuine 4K UHD film - but Blade Runner 2049 was shot at 3.4K, and upscaled from there, so isn't really a full fat 4K UHD film! Amazing how technology moves "forward"... 🙂

Which hopefully mean when finally get a release of True Lies, we should see a digitally scanned 4K remaster! All we need is James Cameron to take a break from making crap in order for him to supervise a remaster...

 

[Andrewjvt]

David

But it's not really what I'm thinking about.

Maybe if I simplify:

Are LCD/led TV presentation
Different to projector presentation regardless of spec

 

[davidf]

TVs will be fundamentally different in that a TV is creating pixels at the point that you’re seeing them, whereas a projector creates them and then has to project them onto a screen that could be 8-20ft away. The further the projection lens is away from the screen, the more brightness is lost.

Whether TV or projector, you’re taking the same amount of pixels but covering a very different area - the smaller the area, the sharper the picture is obviously going to look - the larger the picture the softer it’ll look. Projectors use technologies that they all call comething unique, which is used to fill in the gaps so to speak, in order to reduce the ‘chicken wire’ effect that is seen on budget or older projectors. You do get to a point where any projector starts to lose a naturalness to the picture, and starts looking blatantly soft. I found with my Mitsubishi it looked fine at 8ft, but taking it down to 7ft looked a lot better.

Between modern TVs, regardless of the technology used, it’s all creating pixels.

 

[Andrewjvt]

TVs will be fundamentally different in that a TV is creating pixels at the point that you’re seeing them, whereas a projector creates them and then has to project them onto a screen that could be 8-20ft away. The further the projection lens is away from the screen, the more brightness is lost.

Whether TV or projector, you’re taking the same amount of pixels but covering a very different area - the smaller the area, the sharper the picture is obviously going to look - the larger the picture the softer it’ll look. Projectors use technologies that they all call comething unique, which is used to fill in the gaps so to speak, in order to reduce the ‘chicken wire’ effect that is seen on budget or older projectors. You do get to a point where any projector starts to lose a naturalness to the picture, and starts looking blatantly soft. I found with my Mitsubishi it looked fine at 8ft, but taking it down to 7ft looked a lot better.

Between modern TVs, regardless of the technology used, it’s all creating pixels.

so what is the best solution regards projectors

short throw or standard

 

[davidf]

Based on how it works, the shorter the distance from the PJ to the screen the better. But a lot of these high end projectors are huge, as they produce a very high brightness (and more heat, therefore needing more cooling), so are better at longer throws than budget projectors.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Stupidly enough, the original Blade Runner has been scanned at 4K and remastered, so you're getting a genuine 4K UHD film - but Blade Runner 2049 was shot at 3.4K, and upscaled from there, so isn't really a full fat 4K UHD film! Amazing how technology moves "forward"... 🙂

Which hopefully mean when finally get a release of True Lies, we should see a digitally scanned 4K remaster! All we need is James Cameron to take a break from making crap in order for him to supervise a remaster...

Where is the best place to demo projectors?

 

[davidf]

Where is the best place to demo projectors?

That’s a very good question. There’s not many places that will have more than a couple on demo, as they’re not really sold in large numbers. I wouldn’t know where to start!

 

[bigboss]

Stupidly enough, the original Blade Runner has been scanned at 4K and remastered, so you're getting a genuine 4K UHD film - but Blade Runner 2049 was shot at 3.4K, and upscaled from there, so isn't really a full fat 4K UHD film! Amazing how technology moves "forward"... 🙂

Which hopefully mean when finally get a release of True Lies, we should see a digitally scanned 4K remaster! All we need is James Cameron to take a break from making crap in order for him to supervise a remaster...

Where is the best place to demo projectors?

Where do you live?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Stupidly enough, the original Blade Runner has been scanned at 4K and remastered, so you're getting a genuine 4K UHD film - but Blade Runner 2049 was shot at 3.4K, and upscaled from there, so isn't really a full fat 4K UHD film! Amazing how technology moves "forward"... 🙂

Which hopefully mean when finally get a release of True Lies, we should see a digitally scanned 4K remaster! All we need is James Cameron to take a break from making crap in order for him to supervise a remaster...

Where is the best place to demo projectors?

Where do you live?

E Midlands

 

[bigboss]

If you can get up to Normanton, Ideal AV has good demo facilities.

 

[Andrewjvt]

If you can get up to Normanton, Ideal AV has good demo facilities.

ill look them up