Innuos Zenith Statement

[ellisdj]

Just seen this thanks to a Tweet from DavidF.

interesting what they have done with this.

2 box system one dedicated to being 8 linear power supplies to power each part of the computer with clean power. Designed by Sean Jacobs (I wonder if that's same Sean Jacobs who designed mine)

Dedicated USB Board with clean 5v power

using OCXO clocks

Custom Motherboard ( that's interesting to know more about that)

 

[daveh75]

So some nicely packaged ******** in other words...

 

[ellisdj]

be interesting when feedback starts coming out for it.

 

[ellisdj]

link here

https://www.thelittleaudio.company/innuos-zenith-statement

 

[ellisdj]

link here

https://www.thelittleaudio.company/innuos-zenith-statement

 

[Andrewjvt]

Here is one to test your home made streamer against.

See if you get a different measurements.

 

[Andrewjvt]

So some nicely packaged ******** in other words...

How does 5v 'clean' power differ on a multi meter from normal dirty power?

 

[ellisdj]

So some nicely packaged ******** in other words...

How does 5v 'clean' power differ on a multi meter from normal dirty power?

Its not coming from the PC motherboard

 

[Andrewjvt]

So some nicely packaged ******** in other words...

How does 5v 'clean' power differ on a multi meter from normal dirty power?

Its not coming from the PC motherboard 

How does it measure in a multimeter
Not where does it come from.

How can we test it to know it's different from normal wall.plug mains power by means of measurement.

 

[ellisdj]

get one on home demo and try it yourself be best way for you to find out.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Benchmark.media

MENUBenchmark Media Systems, Inc.
INSIDE THE DAC2 - PART 3 - POWER SUPPLIES
◅▻
John Siau - July 13, 2016

Analog Audio › DAC2 › Power Supply › Test & Measurement ›

POWER SUPPLIES IN AUDIO D/A CONVERTERS
The Benchmark DAC2 is an audio digital-to-analog converter. This application note explains the power supply configuration inside Benchmark's DAC2 D/A converter. In part 1 of this series we discussed the importance of the analog section of an audio converter. In part 2 we discussed the unique high-headroom digital processing chain inside the DAC2. The analog and digital systems each contribute toward Benchmark's overall goal of transparent musical reproduction, but this goal can only be reached when these systems are supported by a well-designed power supply system. Power supplies can adversely affect the performance of these critical analog and digital systems. As the resolution of D/A converters has improved, power requirements have become more challenging. In many cases, the classic solutions (linear power supplies, line-frequency transformers, and large banks of capacitors) fail to deliver adequate performance in a D/A converter with a 125 to 130 dB signal to noise ratio (SNR).

DAC2 INTERNAL VIEW

SWITCHING POWER SUPPLIES
Benchmark has transitioned to switching power supplies because they have the potential to be much quieter than conventional linear power supplies (see Audio Myth "Switching Power Supplies are Noisy" for a more detailed discussion of this topic).

Conventional power supplies have large magnetic components that operate at the AC line frequency (50 - 60 Hz). Magnetic emissions from these components are the primary source of the AC hum that can be heard in the noise floor of most audio products. In contrast, the DAC2 has a natural "white" noise floor without any audible traces of AC hum. To achieve a white noise floor, the AC line-related tones must be at least 20 dB to 30 dB lower than the noise measured across the entire audio band. The DAC2 has an A-Weighted SNR of 126 dB, while AC line-related hum is below -160 dB, relative to full output. This means that the AC line-related hum is at least 34 dB lower than the idle-channel noise of the DAC2 (easily achieving a virtually perfect white noise floor). This can be seen in the following FFT plot taken from the DAC2 manual:l

 

[Andrewjvt]

MENUBenchmark Media Systems, Inc.
AUDIO MYTH - "SWITCHING POWER SUPPLIES ARE NOISY"
◅▻
John Siau - May 03, 2016

AHB2 › Audio Myths › Power Amplifier › Power Supply › Test & Measurement ›

THIS MYTH GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS:
"Switching supplies are noisy."

"Linear power supplies are best for audio."

We disagree!

About 5 years ago, Benchmark stopped putting linear power supplies into our new products, and we replaced them with switching power supplies. We did this because linear supplies are too noisy. Yes, you read that correctly, linear supplies are noisy! A well-designed switching power supply can be much quieter than a linear supply.

LINEAR POWER SUPPLIES CAUSE HUM
The noise problem is due to the fact that linear power supplies have large transformers and other magnetic components that operate at the AC line frequency (50 Hz to 60 Hz). These line frequencies are audible, and we are all too familiar with the hum and buzz that audio products can produce. It is no secret that this noise is caused by the power supply, but few people understand why it can be so hard to eliminate. Most people think that hum is caused by conducted interference (AC ripple on the power supply rails), but this is rarely the case. Most AC hum is caused by magnetic interference, and this can be very hard to eliminate.

HUM IS USUALLY CAUSED BY MAGNETIC INTERFERENCE
Transformers are magnetic devices. Power is magnetically transmitted between a transformer's input and output windings. In a linear supply, power is transmitted from the AC line side of a transformer to the low-voltage secondary side using an AC line-frequency magnetic field. Unfortunately, transformers are never perfect, and some energy always escapes through stray magnetic fields. These stray fields can interfere with virtually every electrical conductor in an audio product. Magnetic shielding is expensive and it has limited effectiveness when sensitive circuits are located in close proximity to a strong field.

 

[ellisdj]

its a good situational arguement becasue other companies have gone the other way.

Meridian who know a thing or 2 about digital used smps power supplies in their products for years - one enthusiast went on a mission to get a Linear Power supply into an 861 and succeeded to the point people were getting him to do it for them too.

Next thing Meridian launch the V8 model with linear power supplies in and they offered the chance for older processors to be upgraded. Called a Health Check fresh warranty as well - good idea ti support their legacy customers so well.

I didnt see anyone who did it complain or talk of worse performance regards to this.

In my experience every SMPS removal has brought benefit, but not all smps are bad in the same breath

I will be doing my Oppo soon my bits have just cleared customs - looking forward to doing that will be fun.

 

[insider9]

Most interesting design feature here is a motherboard. As I've not tried linear power supply to my steamer I can't comment on results. It would be interesting to know for sure.

 

[Andrewjvt]

its a good situational arguement becasue other companies have gone the other way.

Meridian who know a thing or 2 about digital used smps power supplies in their products for years - one enthusiast went on a mission to get a Linear Power supply into an 861 and succeeded to the point people were getting him to do it for them too.

Next thing Meridian launch the V8 model with linear power supplies in and they offered the chance for older processors to be upgraded.  Called a Health Check fresh warranty as well - good idea ti support their legacy customers so well.

I didnt see anyone who did it complain or talk of worse performance regards to this.

In my experience every SMPS removal has brought benefit, but not all smps are bad in the same breath

 

I will be doing my Oppo soon my bits have just cleared customs - looking forward to doing that will be fun.

Is check the measurements as noise can (like it or not) be measured

 

[insider9]

The minute they stop using off the shelf parts I'm interested. And very curious

 

[ellisdj]

The power supply is the clever bit - its external so all the vibratyion and EMI will be outside the important section and will be of Naim quality as that is what Dr Sean Jacobs if its the sam guy builds - custom upgraded PSU's for Naim kit.

It even uses an Umbilical system - best way to do it for safety.

I had mine built by him in 2014 still works perfectly and I have only been hearing the benefit of it recently with some of the outstadning kit I have had in to listen to.

Also OXCO clocks I have been using them for years - they are massive and require a lot of power and get hot - but wow boy are they good.

I will be doing a rebuild soon, I have my new case just waiting on some other bits and some time - likely be later in May that I will do it and you can see what bits I am using. I am hoping to change a few things while I am going through the agro of doing it.

I go to the nth degree - you wouldnt expect nothing less - I made all my own cables for the current build it was a mission job I swore never to do again - but the OCD in me will likely have me at it again

 

[ellisdj]

Chord use SMPS as well

But a lot of other companies use Linear - doesnt have to be a Toroid - R Core or others exist.

 

[insider9]

You won't try so hard that I'd want to build one too. And if you do make sure you're not spending too much.

Main questions I'd ask would be. Is it going to run Windows? Will you finally jump on Roon? And will you let me have a listen to it?

 

[ellisdj]

I have no personal interest in Roon as it stands - for a local small library BubbleDS works fine and I keep the pc activity down to a minimum.

There is already more going on than ideal - I would like to build a dual pc setup as that is best as it fully seperarates the System OS from the Audio OS - but I dont know if I can face the learning curve right now - got so much on.

I am only planning a chassis change to allow me to review and change some extra components - my current chassis is maxed out due to its ultra slim line size.

I am not doing a full OS reinstall, cant face that either, looking back to what I did - Windows server is not as easy to use all research and I havent got the time mate atm

Need the system up to do reviews

 

[insider9]

Ok, interesting. That's a very good approach. I know how fiddly it can be. I'm still tweaking settings on mine everyday.

 

[davidf]

Just as there are a number of different amplifier types, there are now a number of different types of power supply. All will have their pros and cons, but like amplifier type, it’s how well it’s designed and how you use it that governs how good it will perform, rather than whether or not it will be better or worse than another type. Like many things, there’s a lot of variables, it’s addressing the negatives of those variables and ensuring the chosen technology - which has presumably chosen as it best suits the purpose - performs to the best it possibly can.