Images on American and European LCD TVs exactly the same?

[DRW-DVD]

For my question, I need to elaborate a bit:

As you probably know, there is a difference between American and European CRT TVs. Not only does one have 60 Hz and the other one 50 Hz, but there are also differences in case the European TV is capable of displaying the NTSC signal.

For example, when you play "Super Mario Bros." for the NES on an NTSC CRT TV (any NTSC CRT TV) then you will see a white border on Mario and the Goombas, but only if they're in front of the blue background:

This never happens with PAL TVs. It doesn't matter if you use a PAL NES on it or if you plug in an actual NTSC NES and play it on an NTSC-compatible PAL TV: The above color fragments on the picture of the screen are exclusive to real NTSC TVs. PAL TVs produce their own fragments, but not the same as above.

So, while some PAL CRT TVs are able to process the NTSC signal, they of course don't emulate the typical NTSC hardware quirks. That means if you just want to watch an American DVD or play an American game on a European CRT TV, all you need is buy one that is NTSC-compatible. But if you want to have a real "authentic" look of an NTSC CRT TV, including all the hardware shortcomics of NTSC tubes, you have to use an actual NTSC TV.

Now to my questions: Do such differences also exist with LCD TVs?

Today, almost all LCD TVs are capable to process both formats, NTSC and PAL. But what about hardware quirks like the one I explained above?

If I have two LCD TVs of the same model, only that one is the American version and one is the European version, and I connect the same DVD player through HDMI with the same DVD, will the picture look exactly identical, down to the pixel, on both TVs? Or will there be specific differences?

For example, is it possible that an image on an American LCD TV has other color fragements than the same image on a European LCD TV?

Or what about the Hertz value? Can both TVs display 60 Hz and 50 Hz natively? Or does an American TV show 60 Hz natively while 50 Hz are only somehow emulated, and a Europen TV shows 50 Hz natively and only emulates 60 Hz?

Please note that I'm not asking about American and European DVDs. I know that they are different (different resolution, different speed etc.). I'm talking about the following:

I have the same DVD player, connected via HDMI.

I have the same American DVD.

I have an American LCD TV.

I have a European LCD TV of the same model as the American one.

Now, I connect the DVD player with the American DVD to both TVs.

My question: Will the image look exactly alike?

For a CRT TV I know the answer: No, they will not look the same. Even if the European TV is able to process the American DVD signal, it will still not look exactly like the American TV due to the way American tubes are built differently and therefore have different color fragments.

And now I'd like to know if something like that still exists for modern LCD TVs: If the TV gets its image from the same source, is the image shown on the American TV indistinguishable than from the European TV?

I want to point out again that I'm not talking about mere compatibility. The simple statement "Modern TVs can process both signals" wouldn't help me. I want to know if the images are actually completely the same?

And of course, I'm not talking about difference in picture quality or image options in general. Yes, I know that a Sony TV might show a different picture than an LG TV. And I know that you can change color, brightness etc. in the options anyway. My question is not about that.

My question is: Are there specific image attributes that American LCD TVs share among each other that you don't see on any European LCD TVs, even if both show the same DVD?

NTSC CRT TVs share some graphical quirks that they all have in common, but that you never see on European CRT TVs even if the European TV is processing an NTSC signal. Do such differences still exists between American and European LCD TVs?

It would be really great if you could help me with this question.

 

[simonlewis]

I think this question is too technical for some of the forumites, you may not get an answer.

 

[DRW-DVD]

Where would be the correct place to ask this?

 

[simonlewis]

Not sure, sorry i can't help.

 

[MajorFubar]

This is another wind up, right?

 

[simonlewis]

This is another wind up, right?

Who are you talking to, the op hasn't had a sensible reply yet.

 

[MajorFubar]

This is another wind up, right?

Who are you talking to, the op hasn't had a sensible reply yet.

Op.

 

[Anderson]

To answer your question, yes, should look the same if using a HDMI source.

 

[abacus]

NTSC and PAL are analogue, HDMI is digital so is the same anywhere in the world.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[DRW-DVD]

This is another wind up, right?

What do you mean? Is there anything strange about my question? It basically boils down to: "Are American and European TVs the same today or are there still differences like with CRT TVs?"

And what do you mean with another wind up? If there has been some troll on these forums, then no, I'm not him. Go and ask an administrator to compare the IP addresses if you don't believe me.

NTSC and PAL are analogue, HDMI is digital so is the same anywhere in the world.

Yes, but what about the TV itself? HDMI might be global, but that still doesn't guarantee that the TVs are identical.

For example, American signals usually work with 60Hz, European with 50Hz. If I play an American DVD on a European TV, the TV has to switch to 60Hz. In which way does it do it?

Can modern TVs show both, 50Hz and 60Hz natively (i.e. both values are equal options and none of them is "truer" for that TV than the other value)?

Or does the TV have a certain native Hz value and all the other values are just simulated (i.e. the European TV is "hardwired" to 50Hz and whenever it has to deal with American DVDs, it switches to some kind of compatibility mode, while the American TV is "hardwired" to 60Hz and uses a compatibility mode for European DVDs)?

My overall question is: Apart from the different voltage and the different antenna plug, is the European TV of a specific model identical in construction to the American version of the same model? Or are there specific differences between an American TV and a European TV?

(With CRT TVs, this is the case: No matter how well a European CRT TV can work with the American signal, the tubes are still built differently, so there will be differences in color and color fragments. The same model is not identical in construction in America and Europe. So, what about LCD TVs?)

 

[cheeseboy]

This is another wind up, right?

What do you mean? Is there anything strange about my question? It basically boils down to: "Are American and European TVs the same today or are there still differences like with CRT TVs?"

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Are+American+and+European+TVs+the+same+today+or+are+there+still+differences+like+with+CRT+TVs%3F

NTSC and PAL are analogue, HDMI is digital so is the same anywhere in the world.

Yes, but what about the TV itself? HDMI might be global, but that still doesn't guarantee that the TVs are identical.

The Panels will be now. The only thing that maybe different is in the inbuilt tuners, usually split between us and europe/asia. Although most of them cover all now.

 

[abacus]

In analogue form the TV will adjust to suit the input, in digital form 50, 60, 500 makes absolutely no difference as it is not relevant to the digital domain of LCD/Plasma etc. as they do not operate like a CRT TV.

There are some more advanced readings available explaining this, (Although they are more technical) but basically if its digital there is absolutely no difference anywhere in the world. (Note to use a digital signal on a CRT it has to be converted to analogue first)

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[DRW-DVD]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Are+American+and+European+TVs+the+same+today+or+are+there+still+differences+like+with+CRT+TVs%3F

Yeah, great. You do know that Google doesn't work like that, right? We don't live in a science fiction movie where you can just ask the computer a question in plain text and then it answers.

Besides, have you actually bothered to look for the results of your search? The first linked page is this very thread here. The second is a generic "Technology of television" Wikipedia article, the third is "NTSC - Wikipedia", the fourth is "What is the Difference Between NTSC and PAL?"

I always love it when somebody implies that I'm stupid and unable to use a search engine, yet his demonstration of using the search engine doesn't produce anything that I'm looking for at all.

The only thing that maybe different is in the inbuilt tuners, usually split between us and europe/asia. Although most of them cover all now.

With tuners you mean the device to receive TV signals, right? If yes, then that one I don't care about anyway.

In analogue form the TV will adjust to suit the input, in digital form 50, 60, 500 makes absolutely no difference as it is not relevant to the digital domain of LCD/Plasma etc. as they do not operate like a CRT TV.

I've got a question about this:

On my PC, I can switch between various display modes, having various Hertz values. When I do this, the screen switches as well. Some display modes aren't supported by the screen. For example, I cannot choose 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz, only 1024 x 768 @ 75 Hz. If I try 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz, the screen will actually go into 1360 x 768 @ 60 Hz mode and stretch the 1024 x 768 pixels, even though Windows itself is still set to 1024 x 768 @ 75 Hz.

So, what is the relationship between Hz and the actual LCD screen? It seems like LCD screens still have one definite Hz value at a time.

Another question (please tell me if I've understood something incorrectly):

An American DVD usually works with 24 images per second. And 60 Hz means 60 images per second. Now, to transform the 24 images to 60 images, the TV might use a multiple of 60 Hz, for example 120 Hz, which is a multiple of 60 just as it is also a multiple of 24. Meaning that when an LCD TV gets the DVD signal, it shows it with 120 Hz. Is that correct so far?

So, is it possible that the European TV, when it gets the American 24-images-per-second DVD, takes 50 Hz as the basis and then uses the value that is a multiple of 24 and 50 (instead of a multiple of 24 and 60) to display the movie (and therefore ends up at 96Hz that, while not a true multiple of 50, comes quite close), while the American TV would take 60 Hz at the base value and use the common multiple of 60 and 24 (and ends up with 120 Hz)?

There are some more advanced readings available explaining this, (Although they are more technical) but basically if its digital there is absolutely no difference anywhere in the world. (Note to use a digital signal on a CRT it has to be converted to analogue first)

Hope this helps

Yeah, that was already quite helpful. Thanks.

Could you maybe link me to those advanced readings as well?

 

[cheeseboy]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Are+American+and+European+TVs+the+same+today+or+are+there+still+differences+like+with+CRT+TVs%3F

Yeah, great. You do know that Google doesn't work like that, right? We don't live in a science fiction movie where you can just ask the computer a question in plain text and then it answers.

Besides, have you actually bothered to look for the results of your search? The first linked page is this very thread here. The second is a generic "Technology of television" Wikipedia article, the third is "NTSC - Wikipedia", the fourth is "What is the Difference Between NTSC and PAL?"

I always love it when somebody implies that I'm stupid and unable to use a search engine, yet his demonstration of using the search engine doesn't produce anything that I'm looking for at all.

actually I did see the search result and thought it was funny. However, yes you are stupid if you didn't go through the second link down and the associated links off that as they explain all of your questions. It starts off with technology of tv, then the under the new developments sections is all the rest of the info you are asking about.

The only thing that maybe different is in the inbuilt tuners, usually split between us and europe/asia. Although most of them cover all now.

With tuners you mean the device to receive TV signals, right? If yes, then that one I don't care about anyway.

so you missed the bit where I said the panels are the same then... :roll:

On my PC, I can switch between various display modes, having various Hertz values. When I do this, the screen switches as well. Some display modes aren't supported by the screen. For example, I cannot choose 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz, only 1024 x 768 @ 75 Hz. If I try 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz, the screen will actually go into 1360 x 768 @ 60 Hz mode and stretch the 1024 x 768 pixels, even though Windows itself is still set to 1024 x 768 @ 75 Hz.

So, what is the relationship between Hz and the actual LCD screen? It seems like LCD screens still have one definite Hz value at a time.

it can only have one Hz value at a time, hence it switches. That's what switching means...

Another question (please tell me if I've understood something incorrectly):

An American DVD usually works with 24 images per second. And 60 Hz means 60 images per second. Now, to transform the 24 images to 60 images, the TV might use a multiple of 60 Hz, for example 120 Hz, which is a multiple of 60 just as it is also a multiple of 24. Meaning that when an LCD TV gets the DVD signal, it shows it with 120 Hz. Is that correct so far?

So, is it possible that the European TV, when it gets the American 24-images-per-second DVD, takes 50 Hz as the basis and then uses the value that is a multiple of 24 and 50 (instead of a multiple of 24 and 60) to display the movie (and therefore ends up at 96Hz that, while not a true multiple of 50, comes quite close), while the American TV would take 60 Hz at the base value and use the common multiple of 60 and 24 (and ends up with 120 Hz)?

there is no difference between a us an uk lcd/plasma tv, so it's a moot point. There is however a difference between us and uk dvds. do a search on pal speedup.

 

[DRW-DVD]

However, yes you are stupid if you didn't go through the second link down and the associated links off that as they explain all of your questions. It starts off with technology of tv, then the under the new developments sections is all the rest of the info you are asking about.

Totally great:

Hey, it's so simple. All you have to do is find a specific Wikipedia article called "Technology of television". (I cannot believe that you didn't think about the term "Technology of television". How stupid are you?) Then you have to click the 40 links in that article and you will find what you're looking for. I'm not telling you where exactly your specific question is answered, but believe me: You will find it somewhere in the 40 links. (And since you cannot prove a negative, you will never be able to convince anyone if the information isn't there and I can keep insisting that I sent you the correct link.) I cannot believe that you didn't read 40 articles and made sure that it isn't answered anywhere in those before you asked here.

so you missed the bit where I said the panels are the same then... :roll:

No, but I'm always a bit suspicious when all the person does is write a one-liner that basically just says "Yes" or "No". Because in this case there's no way for me to see if the guy actually knows what he's talking about:

"Are Hebrew and Arabic letters the same?" "Yes, they are."

You see?

If someone actually knows something about it, he usually writes a little explanation for the person who asked (you know, like abacus did):

"No, they are not. Hebrew has letters that often look like squares. There are 22 of them. Arabic is totally different. For example, the Arabic text often looks like the letters are connected (like you do when you write a handwritten text in cursive font). Also, they have more letters."

it can only have one Hz value at a time, hence it switches. That's what switching means...

This question wasn't directed at you. It was a follow-up question to one of abacus' statements.

There is however a difference between us and uk dvds. do a search on pal speedup.

Erm:

Please note that I'm not asking about American and European DVDs. I know that they are different (different resolution, different speed etc.).

 

[cheeseboy]

but you've been given the answer, so why keep asking?

 

[DRW-DVD]

Because these are follow-up questions. I don't merely repeat the same question, I ask specific questions that appeared during the talk. (And they're not directed at you anyway, so why do you even bother?)

For example, abacus said that the Hertz value is not relevant to the digital domain of LCD/Plasma. But since my monitor still has concrete possible Hertz values that it can be set to, I asked him to elaboare what he means with this statement. Because ofviously, an LCD monitor/TV still "knows" about Hertz.

Or the question what a TV does when it gets an input of 24 images per second. 24 doesn't fit into 60 Hz. So, does the TV go to 120 Hz?

You see? Those questions are new questions. If someone asks: "What shirt shall I wear?" and you answer him and then he asks: "O.k., will this shirt be washable in the washing machine?", you don't say: "I answered your question. Why do you keep asking?", do you?

 

[cheeseboy]

Because these are follow-up questions. I don't merely repeat the same question, I ask specific questions that appeared during the talk. (And they're not directed at you anyway, so why do you even bother?)

For example, abacus said that the Hertz value is not relevant to the digital domain of LCD/Plasma. But since my monitor still has concrete possible Hertz values that it can be set to, I asked him to elaboare what he means with this statement. Because ofviously, an LCD monitor/TV still "knows" about Hertz.

Or the question what a TV does when it gets an input of 24 images per second. 24 doesn't fit into 60 Hz. So, does the TV go to 120 Hz?

You see? Those questions are new questions. If someone asks: "What shirt shall I wear?" and you answer him and then he asks: "O.k., will this shirt be washable in the washing machine?", you don't say: "I answered your question. Why do you keep asking?", do you?

get off your high horse for a minute.

24 doesn't need to go in to 60. The hz is the refresh rate of the screen. So long as the frames per second being outputted is not greater than the refresh rate then it will run at whatever refresh rate it's set at by the device controlling it.

 

[Paul.]

NTSC TV wasn't just a frame rate and colour, it also had a lower resolution than PAL. NTSC had 525 lines (483 visible) whilst PAL had 625 (576 visible).

I believe there were TVs made for the international market that would do PAL, NTSC and SECAM but there were domestic US tvs that were NTSC only. Now TVs only come from a handful of places and are are for an international market, so the products shipped to the US are the same as elsewhere.

 

[Paul.]

Or the question what a TV does when it gets an input of 24 images per second. 24 doesn't fit into 60 Hz. So, does the TV go to 120 Hz?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down

3 2 pulldown explains how 24p used to be squeezed in to a 60i TV

 

[professorhat]

Doing your best to welcome new users to the forum I see, cheeseboy.

 

[DRW-DVD]

get off your high horse for a minute.

What? You don't like swallowing your own medicine? Good. I hope you see now how condescending you treated me right from the beginning.

I will have a look at the other answers later.

 

[Paul.]

Doing your best to welcome new users to the forum I see, cheeseboy.

Someone had the audacity to walk over the bridge he sleeps under...

 

[cheeseboy]

Doing your best to welcome new users to the forum I see, cheeseboy.

don't particularly care today to be honest. I have actually answered some questions, but apparently I need to post without humor and showing all my certificates and qualifications so they can find the same answers elsewhere.

 

[cheeseboy]

get off your high horse for a minute.

What? You don't like swallowing your own medicine? Good. I hope you see now how condescending you treated me right from the beginning.

I will have a look at the other answers later.

:rofl:

I tried to have a bit of fun with the let me google that for you link, and then I answered your question very civil. You seemed to take umbridge to the google link and launched in to a holier than thou rant about how google works and such, so any replies after that were treat accordingly, so don't try play the victim card.