Idea: An AV receiver good for music!

[Clare Newsome]

And a lot of people get - and enjoy - music from a receiver.

But others, whom enjoy a higher grade of musical experience, acknowledge that it's going to take a dedicated stereo set-up to achieve that.

It's not too much hassle to have both a receiver and a stereo amp (sharing the same front speakers) and you get the best of both worlds.

Many people on this thread have explained that, so i'm at a loss to add anything further!

 

[rendu]

Clare Newsome:

And a lot of people get - and enjoy - music from a receiver.

But others, whom enjoy a higher grade of musical experience, acknowledge that it's going to take a dedicated stereo set-up to achieve that.

It's not too much hassle to have both a receiver and a stereo amp (sharing the same front speakers) and you get the best of both worlds.

Many people on this thread have explained that, so i'm at a loss to add anything further!

Claire, I am aware of that option although unfortunately some receivers including mine do not have pre-outs. However, I do think that it is quite some hassle for the non-experience and the middle user to link and balance 2 separate amps and connect to the rest of the equipment.

What I am claiming is that receivers should be already musical enough so that we, the users do not need to go through this cumbersome solutions or some other solutios like some quoted such as "active front speakers". The receivers are being sold as excelent for music and they should meet the expectations. This is what we should claim.

What would be helpful is if hi-fi magazines did not give any rating above 3 starts unless a receiver is really a hi-fi musical product. The sound is what really matters, the rest of functionality is welcomed but, sound for music should be no-negotiable. Then, the companies maybe would finally get the point. There is a lot of frustration in this area. I have myself purchased 3 receivers already and I do not want to have my livingroom filled with boxes and cables.

 

[professorhat]

At this point, I give in.

rendu - I suggest your next step should be defining your "audiophile quality for music" standard so that hi-fi shops and magazine reviewers alike can know when they're allowed to sell / review something. That should then solve all issues.

 

[The_Lhc]

rendu:Claire,

No, Clare. HAve you any idea how disrespectful it is to not spell someone's name right? Especially when it's written right there in the post you're replying to, that's just lazy.

I am aware of that option although unfortunately some receivers including mine do not have pre-outs.

Oh, you bought a cheap one, why didn't you say, that's why it sounds rubbish with music...

What would be helpful is if hi-fi magazines did not give any rating above 3 starts unless a receiver is really a hi-fi musical product.

This is bull, they're AV receivers, I want them judged on AV, that's what they're built for, that's why I'm buying them, I'm more important than you are (I'm not but that seems to be the gist of your demands), so leave the magazine reviews for people like me and you go and do your own tests. In fact that's what you should do, before you buy another piece of equipment, do some auditioning first, then you'll know up front whether they're musical enough for you and you won't have to worry about any magazine reviews.

I have myself purchased 3 receivers already and I do not want to have my livingroom filled with boxes and cables.

I'd have thought you'd have learned by now but if you're continually making the same mistake over and over again there's no help for you.

 

[Clare Newsome]

rendu:[unfortunately some receivers including mine do not have pre-outs. However, I do think that it is quite some hassle for the non-experience and the middle user to link and balance 2 separate amps and connect to the rest of the equipment.

That's not the only answer. I use my stereo and home cinema electronics separately - all it takes is a quick change over of speaker cable to my front speakers when i'm switching between movies and music (ie unplug one set of cables to the speakers; plug in another)

It's no hassle - it can be done in the time it takes (often far quicker!) to load a Blu-ray disc or cue up an album. A tiny piece of effort to achieve excellence in either music or movies. No compromising. No amp balancing. Just a tiny moment of human involvement.

 

[rendu]

professorhat:

At this point, I give in.

rendu - I suggest your next step should be defining your "audiophile quality for music" standard so that hi-fi shops and magazine reviewers alike can know when they're allowed to sell / review something. That should then solve all issues.

Hey, you really are getting the point.

They should have lots of beautiful lights and a very shinny and flashy remote control and they should sound at least as good as my mobile phone through its external integrated speakers.

 

[rendu]

the_lhc:rendu:Claire, No, Clare. HAve you any idea how disrespectful it is to not spell someone's name right? Especially when it's written right there in the post you're replying to, that's just lazy. I am aware of that option although unfortunately some receivers including mine do not have pre-outs. Oh, you bought a cheap one, why didn't you say, that's why it sounds rubbish with music... What would be helpful is if hi-fi magazines did not give any rating above 3 starts unless a receiver is really a hi-fi musical product. This is bull, they're AV receivers, I want them judged on AV, that's what they're built for, that's why I'm buying them, I'm more important than you are (I'm not but that seems to be the gist of your demands), so leave the magazine reviews for people like me and you go and do your own tests. In fact that's what you should do, before you buy another piece of equipment, do some auditioning first, then you'll know up front whether they're musical enough for you and you won't have to worry about any magazine reviews. I have myself purchased 3 receivers already and I do not want to have my livingroom filled with boxes and cables. I'd have thought you'd have learned by now but if you're continually making the same mistake over and over again there's no help for you.

Maybe you should listen to music more, turn on the radio and sing in the shower, relax and do not make such aggressive posts. People can have different opinion than you and defend what they think is right, in a respectful way of course. Life without music is terrible!

 

[rendu]

Clare Newsome:

rendu:[unfortunately some receivers including mine do not have pre-outs. However, I do think that it is quite some hassle for the non-experience and the middle user to link and balance 2 separate amps and connect to the rest of the equipment.

That's not the only answer. I use my stereo and home cinema electronics separately - all it takes is a quick change over of speaker cable to my front speakers when i'm switching between movies and music (ie unplug one set of cables to the speakers; plug in another)

It's no hassle - it can be done in the time it takes (often far quicker!) to load a Blu-ray disc or cue up an album. A tiny piece of effort to achieve excellence in either music or movies. No compromising. No amp balancing. Just a tiny moment of human involvement.

Clare, I do not want to repeat myself but, I am of the opinion that this is not the solution that users expect. If manufacturers sell AV receivers/multichannel amps as being good for music, and they sell them as hi-fi then we should be demanding this. If they only sold them as home cinema then, end of the story. In that case I would agree that we should not be so demanding about the music part and buy another stereo system for music.

In any case I was not expecting any reply with a real solution. My post was more to demand our right as users and claim for support.

 

[Lee H]

Crikey! This is a never ending argument. I like my music, but my speakers aren't portable. Why should I have to load my music on ANOTHER device then buy some mini, head mountable speakers with which to listen to them?!?

Sadly, you're buying an AVR. Audio Visual Receiver. It's horses for courses. Manufacturers have to make models with the broadest public appeal at a price point. The public (generally) want lots of shiny features and whizz-bang acronyms that they probably don't understand but sound most impressive.

For an example of the buying behaviour of many members of the public, watch this (warning, does contain some strong language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZgIt doesn't always matter if it's better; does it have more features for less money?

 

[The_Lhc]

rendu:People can have different opinion than you

They just can't have a different opinion to you it seems? By my rough count there's been more people in this thread patiently explaining to you why what you want is not achievable than there are people backing your viewpoint. Put simply, if a £500 AV receiver was made to be as musical as a £500 stereo receiver the AV receiver wouldn't be £500 anymore and it doesn't matter what features people do or don't want, what they really want is to spend as little money as possible and when they find their favourite budget amps have suddenly doubled or tripled in price they'll drop them like a hot potato and find a cheaper model.

Fact is you're living in cloud cuckoo land and the only vaguely justifiable complaint you have is one of exaggerated advertising, which may be a fair complaint but if you're someone who believes everything they read in an advert then there really is no explaining things to you.

Life without music is terrible!

Yes I imagine it would be.

 

[professorhat]

rendu:professorhat:At this point, I give in.

rendu - I suggest your next step should be defining your "audiophile quality for music" standard so that hi-fi shops and magazine reviewers alike can know when they're allowed to sell / review something. That should then solve all issues.

Hey, you really are getting the point.

I assure you, I'm really not.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes BUT in comparison to an Alpine car radio with a 4x45 watts (realsitically 4x13 watts) an Alpine does sound really good and musical. These type of car radios are small and running on 12volt supply and are small products. So how can a home reciever at £300 without space limitations, no cd transport etc sound average. We do need a better solution. If the mags gave them a lower rating instead of giving out 5 star ratings like candy the manufactures may pull their socks up and do something about it. The other lines I hate reading on AV reciever reviews are the ones like thess 'This gives a descent stab at music', 'The neutral sound benefits it's musical ability', 'The timing is good so music sounds good' etc. (You know what I mean with those half baked lines used in mags) lol.

 

[Lee H]

Bobbyx:Yes BUT in comparison to an Alpine car radio with a 4x45 watts (realsitically 4x13 watts) an Alpine does sound really good and musical. These type of car radios are small and running on 12volt supply and are small products. So how can a home reciever at £300 without space limitations, no cd transport etc sound average. We do need a better solution. If the mags gave them a lower rating instead of giving out 5 star ratings like candy the manufactures may pull their socks up and do something about it. The other lines I hate reading on AV reciever reviews are the ones like thess 'This gives a descent stab at music', 'The neutral sound benefits it's musical ability', 'The timing is good so music sounds good' etc. (You know what I mean with those half baked lines used in mags) lol.

But you wouldn't also expect your Alpine to upscale video, handle multiple format inputs and produce 5, 7 or 9 channels of perfectly timed audio to support a Bluray

 

[Dave_]

Bobbyx:I think I have got the answer! We could buy Active Speakers for the front pair. What do you think? At least it's better then the 2 box route.Then what do you do for the centre speaker?

 

[richutd18]

I think the best option would be the two box, unless you can find a matching center!

 

[Anonymous]

Run the Centre off the amp! This is for stereo music solution. If you wanted you could get a third active centre speaker. Maybe What Hi Fi should experiment with these ideas at least they are new rather then the same same flow in the magazine. They could tackle things like this properly It really would make an interesting read alot more then the ads lol.

 

[Dave_]

Bobbyx:Run the Centre off the amp! This is for stereo music solution. If you wanted you could get a third active centre speaker.Yes i know you would run the centre off the AV receiver, but i was thinking more the issues with finding a matching centre, and yes you could use a third active centre, but how many HiFi/AV manufactures supply a single speaker/matching active centre?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Bobbyx:Maybe What Hi Fi should experiment with these ideas at least they are new rather then the same same flow in the magazine. They could tackle things like this properly It really would make an interesting read alot more then the ads lol.

Fine, we'll try it your way. The next, ad-free copy will cost you £50 - OK?

 

[The_Lhc]

Clare Newsome:
Bobbyx:Maybe What Hi Fi should experiment with these ideas at least they are new rather then the same same flow in the magazine. They could tackle things like this properly It really would make an interesting read alot more then the ads lol.

Fine, we'll try it your way. The next, ad-free copy will cost you £50 - OK?

No Clare, you clearly don't understand, you have to take the ads out AND charge less! And as subscribers we expected it to be delivered last week, preferably before you've written it.

 

[Anonymous]

Quite long discussion. And this is not a first one. I also do not understand why is there only few dedicated a/v processors on market. That would be much more flexible solution, you can take a good power amplifier and keep it for years while changing a/v processor every 2-3 years. Everebody knows that weakest link for a/v receivers is an amplifier part. Most of them cann't even properly handle 4 ohm speakers.

 

[The_Lhc]

You go far enough up the market you'll find standalone processors but they don't sell to Joe Bloggs who just wants an easy all-in-one solution, so you won't find them at the "budget" or even mid-range level. Every additional box you have to buy is more and more expense, whereas a one box solution will be cheaper than a processor and 3/5/7 power amps.

Similarly at the sort of level this thread is swimming in you don't find too many 4 ohm speakers to fit into the same price category, so that isn't really an issue.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe. That depends from manufacturer. For example, all Dynaudio is 4 ohm i think, price doesn't matter.
Yes, processors are for top budget solutions, but if they can make a whole receiver for 400 pounds, why they can not make a processor only for 300 pounds. And there are not so many proper one box solution, (dvd/bd receiver ffrom nad ,teac, onkyo, denon), they are only stereo and not so cheap either, more then 300 pounds. I still think that amplifier is the cheapest part of budget receivers.

 

[The_Lhc]

ediots:Maybe. That depends from manufacturer. For example, all Dynaudio is 4 ohm i think, price doesn't matter.

Dynaudio tend to be a lot more expensive than the speakers most people stick on a £500 AV receiver...

Yes, processors are for top budget solutions, but if they can make a whole receiver for 400 pounds, why they can not make a processor only for 300 pounds.

Because Joe Average would then walk into Currys Megastore, buy the £300 box, get it home to find it won't make any noise and there's nowhere to plug his speakers into, so he takes it back only to be told he needs to buy another three boxes at £200 each before it'll work, so he gets a refund and buys the £400 receiver. There's no market for a cheap processor.

And there are not so many proper one box solution, (dvd/bd receiver ffrom nad ,teac, onkyo, denon), they are only stereo and not so cheap either, more then 300 pounds.

Erm, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, LG, to name but a few all make 5.1 (at least) all in one BD receivers for not much more than £300, although I was thinking more of the separate AV receiver market rather than all-in-one style solutions, I really hope nobody expects to get decent music performance out of the tiny speakers those solutions are generally sold with.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc: Erm, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, LG, to name but a few all make 5.1 (at least) all in one BD receivers for not much more than £300, although I was thinking more of the separate AV receiver market rather than all-in-one style solutions, I really hope nobody expects to get decent music performance out of the tiny speakers those solutions are generally sold with.
No, I am not talking about those D class chipamps.
I am about that Nad Viso Two stereo dvd
eceiver cost about the same as full height a/v multi channel receiver. My guess is that is because of proper amplifiers on board. But maybe not.

 

[The_Lhc]

ediots:the_lhc: Erm, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, LG, to name but a few all make 5.1 (at least) all in one BD receivers for not much more than £300, although I was thinking more of the separate AV receiver market rather than all-in-one style solutions, I really hope nobody expects to get decent music performance out of the tiny speakers those solutions are generally sold with.
No, I am not talking about those D class chipamps.
I am about that Nad Viso Two stereo dvd
eceiver cost about the same as full height a/v multi channel receiver. My guess is that is because of proper amplifiers on board. But maybe not.

I don't think many other people have been talking about those...