professorhat
Well-known member
And with the thread now completely off topic and strolling into the realms of fantasy, I think I'll also move on.
I am really sorry that this thread has come up again. As someone already mentioned we already discussed about this and was no pleasant experience at that time, and it is no pleasant now either.
We are focusing too much on the car radio and this was just an example of a hi-fi product which has been able to add lots of new features over the years but without loosing the basics and the most important feature that is the reason of its existance. MUSIC.
Big companies have followed a path that will be very difficult to correct. Who would dare nowdays to put in the market a musical multichannel amp with only 5 channels, no zone2, no video decoding, no HDMI, etc... but GOOD musical sound? NOBODY. Unfortunatelly it has become a feature competition which is backed up with 5 star reviews and thousands of sales. Why would they change their approach if we don't give them reasons? The forest does not let us see the trees.
So it seems that most people think and justify that AV receivers do not need to be musical and we should not claim them to be. Like we say in Spain, we are throwing stones to our own roofs. From my side as a customer, I will continue to be demaning and claim musicality from any product that is meant to play or reproduce music.
We are focusing too much on the car radio and this was just an example of a hi-fi product which has been able to add lots of new features over the years but without loosing the basics and the most important feature that is the reason of its existance. MUSIC.
Big companies have followed a path that will be very difficult to correct. Who would dare nowdays to put in the market a musical multichannel amp with only 5 channels, no zone2, no video decoding, no HDMI, etc... but GOOD musical sound? NOBODY. Unfortunatelly it has become a feature competition which is backed up with 5 star reviews and thousands of sales. Why would they change their approach if we don't give them reasons? The forest does not let us see the trees.
So it seems that most people think and justify that AV receivers do not need to be musical and we should not claim them to be. Like we say in Spain, we are throwing stones to our own roofs. From my side as a customer, I will continue to be demaning and claim musicality from any product that is meant to play or reproduce music.
the_lhc:MAKE IT STOP!!!!
You'll have to speak up - he spends a lot of time listening to car audio.
You'll have to speak up - he spends a lot of time listening to car audio.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
rendu:Who would dare nowdays to put in the market a musical multichannel amp with only 5 channels, no zone2, no video decoding, no HDMI, etc... but GOOD musical sound?
If you don't have the HDMI connections how are you going to get the HD audio soundtracks into the amp, given that HDMI is the only way to transport them? I do see your point but you've taken the (lack of) requirements a little too far there...
If you don't have the HDMI connections how are you going to get the HD audio soundtracks into the amp, given that HDMI is the only way to transport them? I do see your point but you've taken the (lack of) requirements a little too far there...
professorhat:
And with the thread now completely off topic and strolling into the realms of fantasy, I think I'll also move on.
Wise decission, wish you would have taken it long ago. We will be sad but we will probably manage without sarcastic wisdom...
And with the thread now completely off topic and strolling into the realms of fantasy, I think I'll also move on.
Wise decission, wish you would have taken it long ago. We will be sad but we will probably manage without sarcastic wisdom...
the_lhc:rendu:Who would dare nowdays to put in the market a musical multichannel amp with only 5 channels, no zone2, no video decoding, no HDMI, etc... but GOOD musical sound? If you don't have the HDMI connections how are you going to get the HD audio soundtracks into the amp, given that HDMI is the only way to transport them? I do see your point but you've taken the (lack of) requirements a little too far there...
Again this was just an example but you have the multichannel inputs. Today is HD with HDMI and tomorrow will be something else...
Again this was just an example but you have the multichannel inputs. Today is HD with HDMI and tomorrow will be something else...
rendu:Wise decission, wish you would have taken it long ago. We will be sad but we will probably manage without sarcastic wisdom...
Rendu, please stop insulting other users.
Rendu, please stop insulting other users.
cheyworth
Well-known member
Each to his own.
But I am much happier sitting inside at home (nice chair, warmth, glass of wine/beer) tham in a car listening to music/watching films.
But I am much happier sitting inside at home (nice chair, warmth, glass of wine/beer) tham in a car listening to music/watching films.
Andrew Everard:
rendu:Wise decission, wish you would have taken it long ago. We will be sad but we will probably manage without sarcastic wisdom...
Rendu, please stop insulting other users.
Of course, no bad feelings. Peace and love.
rendu:Wise decission, wish you would have taken it long ago. We will be sad but we will probably manage without sarcastic wisdom...
Rendu, please stop insulting other users.
Of course, no bad feelings. Peace and love.
jacobmorrison:
You could always get one of these:
http://whathifi.com/Review/Yamaha-A-S500/
Add one of these from ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-DSP-E800-Processor-Amplifier-Remote-/330507594010?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item4cf3c9a91a
Total cost shouldn't be more than £450 plus cables once the bids are finished. The Yamaha DSP-E800 has pre-outs for the latest cosmetically matching (virtually) whathifi best buy, will drive the center and rears without any fuss (banana connectors on the back will take as thick a cable as you like) as well as decode dts and dolby digital from optical or co-ax sources like skyHD. As long as your bluray player has analogue outputs for the HD audio you'll be sorted. I'm evangelizing a bit because I have one of these already but it does work a treat. Great solution to the problem, it was a shame the approach was abandoned.
Jacobmorrison
I too use the Yamaha DSP-E800. Can you or anyone else explain the quote 'As long as your bluray player has analogue outputs for the HD audio you'll be sorted'. What is the benefit of that? I just connect my Bluray with coaxial digital to the Yamaha. What difference would analogue out from the bluray have?
You could always get one of these:
http://whathifi.com/Review/Yamaha-A-S500/
Add one of these from ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-DSP-E800-Processor-Amplifier-Remote-/330507594010?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item4cf3c9a91a
Total cost shouldn't be more than £450 plus cables once the bids are finished. The Yamaha DSP-E800 has pre-outs for the latest cosmetically matching (virtually) whathifi best buy, will drive the center and rears without any fuss (banana connectors on the back will take as thick a cable as you like) as well as decode dts and dolby digital from optical or co-ax sources like skyHD. As long as your bluray player has analogue outputs for the HD audio you'll be sorted. I'm evangelizing a bit because I have one of these already but it does work a treat. Great solution to the problem, it was a shame the approach was abandoned.
Jacobmorrison
I too use the Yamaha DSP-E800. Can you or anyone else explain the quote 'As long as your bluray player has analogue outputs for the HD audio you'll be sorted'. What is the benefit of that? I just connect my Bluray with coaxial digital to the Yamaha. What difference would analogue out from the bluray have?
If the player has multichannel analogue outs it'll be able to decode DTS-HD/DD-HD soundtracks onboard and pass them as analogue to the E800. Without these, and with a s/pdif digital connection such as you're using, you're only getting 'standard def' DTS/DD, and not the HD version.
The real audio enthusiast especially ones that have been following for What Hi Fi and other informative mags for years have always had sound quality as their first priority. In a nutshell I would like to finish by saying which ever manufacture cracks this will sell alot AV recievers and raise the bar for other manufactures to follow.
BenLaw
Well-known member
As said many pages ago, there's always a trade off. If there was one receiver with the best picture and best sound, then no-one would buy anything else. But it doesn't exist. If the OP wants a receiver that's great for music then he must compromise (somewhat) on PQ. Buy an Oppo BDP-95 (when it's out), analogue outs to an AV pre/pro with all picture and sound processing off (direct signal), a multichannel power amp from an established hifi manufacturer, and then full size speakers. Simple?
rendu:professorhat:
I suspect it's a conspiracy or something. AV manufacturers have been perfectly capable of producing AV amps which actually exceed a stereo amplifier's performance in producing music for 5 years now. But they've all chosen not to. Out of spite probably.
Yes exactly, must be that making a musical multichannel amp is almost like rocket science; maybe our grand children will be lucky enough to see it. So, we poor users can add a 300 Eur AV receiver to a 300 Eur stereo amp via the pre-out connections but, the technical experts of the big Hi-fi companies can not manage to do this internally and sell in one box. Right. Exactly.
Oh boy, how boring it must be to completely lack any sense of irony!
So tell me please, you missed the point on purpose, right?
If not I feel sorry for you.
I suspect it's a conspiracy or something. AV manufacturers have been perfectly capable of producing AV amps which actually exceed a stereo amplifier's performance in producing music for 5 years now. But they've all chosen not to. Out of spite probably.
Yes exactly, must be that making a musical multichannel amp is almost like rocket science; maybe our grand children will be lucky enough to see it. So, we poor users can add a 300 Eur AV receiver to a 300 Eur stereo amp via the pre-out connections but, the technical experts of the big Hi-fi companies can not manage to do this internally and sell in one box. Right. Exactly.
Oh boy, how boring it must be to completely lack any sense of irony!
So tell me please, you missed the point on purpose, right?
If not I feel sorry for you.
steve_1979
Well-known member
Bobbyx:The real audio enthusiast especially ones that have been following for What Hi Fi and other informative mags for years have always had sound quality as their first priority. In a nutshell I would like to finish by saying which ever manufacture cracks this will sell alot AV recievers and raise the bar for other manufactures to follow.
It seems that what we're asking for has already been done once before. A couple of years ago Yamaha made a receiver that went without all of the unnecessary features in order to have the best possible sound quality. Despite having only 5.1 channels, no radio tuner, no video upscaling, no multi room options and only two HDMI inputs the Yamaha DSP-AX763 still managed to win the 2008 What Hifi award for the best multichannel amplifier under £500 because it had the best sound quality.
www.whathifi.com/Review/Yamaha-DSP-AX763/
It seems that what we're asking for has already been done once before. A couple of years ago Yamaha made a receiver that went without all of the unnecessary features in order to have the best possible sound quality. Despite having only 5.1 channels, no radio tuner, no video upscaling, no multi room options and only two HDMI inputs the Yamaha DSP-AX763 still managed to win the 2008 What Hifi award for the best multichannel amplifier under £500 because it had the best sound quality.
www.whathifi.com/Review/Yamaha-DSP-AX763/
Is there a switch box available that could solve the need to change the output source for the spreakers, when using an av amp and a hifi amp?
Yamaha have made a string of these recievers without tuners and that. But the sound still had that sound that it was coming from a home cinema amp. I still had that veil. Cambridge audio have done stuff too but no one has made them sound convicing enough yet with music!
daveh75
Well-known member
PINK MOON:Is there a switch box available that could solve the need to change the output source for the spreakers, when using an av amp and a hifi amp?
Yep, http://www.beresford.me/PP/TC2D7220_AUDIO_ROUTER.html
Yep, http://www.beresford.me/PP/TC2D7220_AUDIO_ROUTER.html
Personally in the future I'm gona get a pair of Quad active speakers to go with my Quad l-ite kit and Denon home cinema amp and connect them to the fron pre outs of my Denon amp. I think this will work best of all bang for buck wise. Deceptively it will look like I got the one amp is running everything and volume control on amp will give the impression further that the speakers are being run off it.
daveh75:
PINK MOON:Is there a switch box available that could solve the need to change the output source for the spreakers, when using an av amp and a hifi amp?
Yep, http://www.beresford.me/PP/TC2D7220_AUDIO_ROUTER.html
Exactly what I was looking for,,, thanks!
PINK MOON:Is there a switch box available that could solve the need to change the output source for the spreakers, when using an av amp and a hifi amp?
Yep, http://www.beresford.me/PP/TC2D7220_AUDIO_ROUTER.html
Exactly what I was looking for,,, thanks!
TKratz:rendu:professorhat:
I suspect it's a conspiracy or something. AV manufacturers have been perfectly capable of producing AV amps which actually exceed a stereo amplifier's performance in producing music for 5 years now. But they've all chosen not to. Out of spite probably.
Yes exactly, must be that making a musical multichannel amp is almost like rocket science; maybe our grand children will be lucky enough to see it. So, we poor users can add a 300 Eur AV receiver to a 300 Eur stereo amp via the pre-out connections but, the technical experts of the big Hi-fi companies can not manage to do this internally and sell in one box. Right. Exactly.
Oh boy, how boring it must be to completely lack any sense of irony!
So tell me please, you missed the point on purpose, right?
If not I feel sorry for you.
You have definetly added a lot of value to this thread. Congratuations!!
Is this ironic enough for you....?
I suspect it's a conspiracy or something. AV manufacturers have been perfectly capable of producing AV amps which actually exceed a stereo amplifier's performance in producing music for 5 years now. But they've all chosen not to. Out of spite probably.
Yes exactly, must be that making a musical multichannel amp is almost like rocket science; maybe our grand children will be lucky enough to see it. So, we poor users can add a 300 Eur AV receiver to a 300 Eur stereo amp via the pre-out connections but, the technical experts of the big Hi-fi companies can not manage to do this internally and sell in one box. Right. Exactly.
Oh boy, how boring it must be to completely lack any sense of irony!
So tell me please, you missed the point on purpose, right?
If not I feel sorry for you.
You have definetly added a lot of value to this thread. Congratuations!!
Is this ironic enough for you....?
rendu:You have definetly added a lot of value to this thread. Congratuations!!
Is this ironic enough for you....?
Only in the Alanis Morissette sense.
Is this ironic enough for you....?
Only in the Alanis Morissette sense.
Paul.
Well-known member
BenLaw
Well-known member
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