[quote user="JAXON5"]Hi Ashley. Do you not have a CD/ record collection that you cherish? I would be distraught if i woke up tomorrow with my own collection replaced by a hard drive substitute. Being able to email them to anyone i wanted would provide scant consolation.
Also don't you think just downloading songs you like encourages 'fast food' music?? Some LPs require some patience and improve with time on a whole range of levels. Being able to download any track you like is great from a technical/convenience point of view but it has its negative impact too,and i'm thinking here that there's too much pressure on artists to make records/songs with immediate impact rather than an album with coherence and substance ( not that the two have to be mutually exclusive). I just think that this technological evolution is not necessarily 'the best thing to happen to music'.[/quote]
I threw all my vinyl away years ago, I owned or had use of some of the best vinyl playing equipment ever made and still loathed the horrid "finger nails on glass" sound. However I have about 600 CDs that I'm slowly Digitising as I play them. I have an Apple TV, a Macbook Pro and an iMac as well as lots of Airport Express, so anything I want to play is instant, I can find it and play it instantly.
We saw a big drop in CD players sales a year or two ago and discovered that our customers were fed up with the slow clunky process of using one, the unreliability of Optical Disc mechanisms and having to listen to an entire CD of artists who barely muster more than two tracks worth listening to. They'd owned iPods and liked them and so bought an Apple computer and much preferred it. I was interested and bought a Macbook Pro, because it's what many professionals use to make records on these days, and I was amazed how easy and fast it is to use. It boots up in 30 seconds, can run all its programs simultaneously and it has Front Row and iTunes. Now I can play all my movies, my music, view my photos and store everything in my laptop and sync it with all my other computers or Apple product.
I'm a manufacturer and now accept that the end to separates is not far away. This is far far better and why we introduced the ADM9s.
We find customers carry everything everywhere in a laptop, they watch movies, listen to music and do their photos with it, in hotel rooms on planes and when they get home it connects to their hi fi via Wi Fi, which they often have in more than one home. It all works seamlessly and it's so quick, some even have several homes with similar systems in each.
Ash
Also don't you think just downloading songs you like encourages 'fast food' music?? Some LPs require some patience and improve with time on a whole range of levels. Being able to download any track you like is great from a technical/convenience point of view but it has its negative impact too,and i'm thinking here that there's too much pressure on artists to make records/songs with immediate impact rather than an album with coherence and substance ( not that the two have to be mutually exclusive). I just think that this technological evolution is not necessarily 'the best thing to happen to music'.[/quote]
I threw all my vinyl away years ago, I owned or had use of some of the best vinyl playing equipment ever made and still loathed the horrid "finger nails on glass" sound. However I have about 600 CDs that I'm slowly Digitising as I play them. I have an Apple TV, a Macbook Pro and an iMac as well as lots of Airport Express, so anything I want to play is instant, I can find it and play it instantly.
We saw a big drop in CD players sales a year or two ago and discovered that our customers were fed up with the slow clunky process of using one, the unreliability of Optical Disc mechanisms and having to listen to an entire CD of artists who barely muster more than two tracks worth listening to. They'd owned iPods and liked them and so bought an Apple computer and much preferred it. I was interested and bought a Macbook Pro, because it's what many professionals use to make records on these days, and I was amazed how easy and fast it is to use. It boots up in 30 seconds, can run all its programs simultaneously and it has Front Row and iTunes. Now I can play all my movies, my music, view my photos and store everything in my laptop and sync it with all my other computers or Apple product.
I'm a manufacturer and now accept that the end to separates is not far away. This is far far better and why we introduced the ADM9s.
We find customers carry everything everywhere in a laptop, they watch movies, listen to music and do their photos with it, in hotel rooms on planes and when they get home it connects to their hi fi via Wi Fi, which they often have in more than one home. It all works seamlessly and it's so quick, some even have several homes with similar systems in each.
Ash
[quote user="Ashley James"]
I threw all my vinyl away years ago[/quote]
Different animals you and I
[quote user="Ashley James"]I have an Apple TV, a Macbook Pro and an iMac as well as lots of Airport Express, so anything I want to play is instant, I can find it and play it instantly.
We saw a big drop in CD players sales a year or two ago and discovered that our customers were fed up with the slow clunky process of using one, the unreliability of Optical Disc mechanisms and having to listen to an entire CD of artists who barely muster more than two tracks worth listening to. They'd owned iPods and liked them and so bought an Apple computer and much preferred it. I was interested and bought a Macbook Pro, because it's what many professionals use to make records on these days, and I was amazed how easy and fast it is to use. It boots up in 30 seconds, can run all its programs simultaneously and it has Front Row and iTunes. Now I can play all my movies, my music, view my photos and store everything in my laptop and sync it with all my other computers or Apple product.
I'm a manufacturer and now accept that the end to separates is not far away. This is far far better and why we introduced the ADM9s.
We find customers carry everything everywhere in a laptop, they watch movies, listen to music and do their photos with it, in hotel rooms on planes and when they get home it connects to their hi fi via Wi Fi, which they often have in more than one home. It all works seamlessly and it's so quick, some even have several homes with similar systems in each.[/quote]
Sounds like you're in love with the technology rather than the music!! I wouldn't do without my laptop and gadgets too but really, this stuff is not what i was talking about. I do understand where you're coming from though. Its just we're not the same train.
I threw all my vinyl away years ago[/quote]
Different animals you and I
[quote user="Ashley James"]I have an Apple TV, a Macbook Pro and an iMac as well as lots of Airport Express, so anything I want to play is instant, I can find it and play it instantly.
We saw a big drop in CD players sales a year or two ago and discovered that our customers were fed up with the slow clunky process of using one, the unreliability of Optical Disc mechanisms and having to listen to an entire CD of artists who barely muster more than two tracks worth listening to. They'd owned iPods and liked them and so bought an Apple computer and much preferred it. I was interested and bought a Macbook Pro, because it's what many professionals use to make records on these days, and I was amazed how easy and fast it is to use. It boots up in 30 seconds, can run all its programs simultaneously and it has Front Row and iTunes. Now I can play all my movies, my music, view my photos and store everything in my laptop and sync it with all my other computers or Apple product.
I'm a manufacturer and now accept that the end to separates is not far away. This is far far better and why we introduced the ADM9s.
We find customers carry everything everywhere in a laptop, they watch movies, listen to music and do their photos with it, in hotel rooms on planes and when they get home it connects to their hi fi via Wi Fi, which they often have in more than one home. It all works seamlessly and it's so quick, some even have several homes with similar systems in each.[/quote]
Sounds like you're in love with the technology rather than the music!! I wouldn't do without my laptop and gadgets too but really, this stuff is not what i was talking about. I do understand where you're coming from though. Its just we're not the same train.
[quote user="cse"]
It's simple. The problem with mp3 is that it'an over complicated way to listen to music. It requires constant use of a computer, scanning websites etc which is hardly relaxing. keeeping up-to-date with the technology is tiresome and although classical music is covered increasingly, latest releases don't appear to be any cheaper. I also don't really understand why people are so obsseseed with listening to music whilst travelling!! Conversely, HIFI is way over priced. Yoy have to spend an imense amount to create a really sophisticated sound and are expected to constantly be thinking of upgrading. Personally,I regret not borrowing the money and investing in a really good Quad/Linn/Meridian system ages ago and just getting on with enjoying listening to music.
[/quote]
I totally disagree, haven't you ever tried an Apple TV that has a digital output to connect to a decent hi fi. It costs £200 and is far more use and easier to use altogether.
If you're a Windows person then it will be a pain, but Apple is taking over the home in some orders and iTunes plays 24/94 files that appear on DVD's with high quality audio only tracks and may soon be available as downloads if some music producers get their way. They object to what record companies do to CD's and want customers to have the option to purchase the higher quality 24 bit recording that they made and not a 16 bit substitute.
Ash
It's simple. The problem with mp3 is that it'an over complicated way to listen to music. It requires constant use of a computer, scanning websites etc which is hardly relaxing. keeeping up-to-date with the technology is tiresome and although classical music is covered increasingly, latest releases don't appear to be any cheaper. I also don't really understand why people are so obsseseed with listening to music whilst travelling!! Conversely, HIFI is way over priced. Yoy have to spend an imense amount to create a really sophisticated sound and are expected to constantly be thinking of upgrading. Personally,I regret not borrowing the money and investing in a really good Quad/Linn/Meridian system ages ago and just getting on with enjoying listening to music.
[/quote]
I totally disagree, haven't you ever tried an Apple TV that has a digital output to connect to a decent hi fi. It costs £200 and is far more use and easier to use altogether.
If you're a Windows person then it will be a pain, but Apple is taking over the home in some orders and iTunes plays 24/94 files that appear on DVD's with high quality audio only tracks and may soon be available as downloads if some music producers get their way. They object to what record companies do to CD's and want customers to have the option to purchase the higher quality 24 bit recording that they made and not a 16 bit substitute.
Ash
FindArticles - So farewell then Amp and Deck, as buyers ditch hi-fi in favour of DVD
Independent on Sunday, The, Dec 7, 2003, by Steve Bloomfield. Ash, maybe you're right, but for someone like me who only found proper Hi-Fi last year, it's too much to take too soon!
Independent on Sunday, The, Dec 7, 2003, by Steve Bloomfield. Ash, maybe you're right, but for someone like me who only found proper Hi-Fi last year, it's too much to take too soon!
[quote user="Ashley James"]I threw all my vinyl away years ago, I owned or had use of some of the best vinyl playing equipment ever made and still loathed the horrid "finger nails on glass" sound. However I have about 600 CDs that I'm slowly Digitising as I play them. I have an Apple TV, a Macbook Pro and an iMac as well as lots of Airport Express, so anything I want to play is instant, I can find it and play it instantly.
We saw a big drop in CD players sales a year or two ago and discovered that our customers were fed up with the slow clunky process of using one, the unreliability of Optical Disc mechanisms and having to listen to an entire CD of artists who barely muster more than two tracks worth listening to. They'd owned iPods and liked them and so bought an Apple computer and much preferred it. I was interested and bought a Macbook Pro, because it's what many professionals use to make records on these days, and I was amazed how easy and fast it is to use. It boots up in 30 seconds, can run all its programs simultaneously and it has Front Row and iTunes. Now I can play all my movies, my music, view my photos and store everything in my laptop and sync it with all my other computers or Apple product.
I'm a manufacturer and now accept that the end to separates is not far away. This is far far better and why we introduced the ADM9s.
We find customers carry everything everywhere in a laptop, they watch movies, listen to music and do their photos with it, in hotel rooms on planes and when they get home it connects to their hi fi via Wi Fi, which they often have in more than one home. It all works seamlessly and it's so quick, some even have several homes with similar systems in each.
Ash[/quote]
Ash, maybe (apart from your signature) you should make it a little clearer in your posts that you're boss of AVI, and therefore have a great interest in computers + active speakers becoming more popular?
No criticism, just a suggestion.
Oh, and sad to hear you think the end to separates isn't far away - we've been big fans of your Lab. Series products!
We saw a big drop in CD players sales a year or two ago and discovered that our customers were fed up with the slow clunky process of using one, the unreliability of Optical Disc mechanisms and having to listen to an entire CD of artists who barely muster more than two tracks worth listening to. They'd owned iPods and liked them and so bought an Apple computer and much preferred it. I was interested and bought a Macbook Pro, because it's what many professionals use to make records on these days, and I was amazed how easy and fast it is to use. It boots up in 30 seconds, can run all its programs simultaneously and it has Front Row and iTunes. Now I can play all my movies, my music, view my photos and store everything in my laptop and sync it with all my other computers or Apple product.
I'm a manufacturer and now accept that the end to separates is not far away. This is far far better and why we introduced the ADM9s.
We find customers carry everything everywhere in a laptop, they watch movies, listen to music and do their photos with it, in hotel rooms on planes and when they get home it connects to their hi fi via Wi Fi, which they often have in more than one home. It all works seamlessly and it's so quick, some even have several homes with similar systems in each.
Ash[/quote]
Ash, maybe (apart from your signature) you should make it a little clearer in your posts that you're boss of AVI, and therefore have a great interest in computers + active speakers becoming more popular?
No criticism, just a suggestion.
Oh, and sad to hear you think the end to separates isn't far away - we've been big fans of your Lab. Series products!
John Duncan
Well-known member
Whaaaaat?!?!?!?!? I just bought ADM9s on his say-so and now I find he has a vested interest?!?!?!?
Actually - seeing as you're here, Ashley - can you recommend how to get the back off? I think they need a clean.........
Actually - seeing as you're here, Ashley - can you recommend how to get the back off? I think they need a clean.........
Blimey. This is a big one. Where to start...
Clare - well, you`re right. Many artists sadly try to fill a CD with 75 mins of music which had they just kept it to the best 45 mins would have made a much better album.
fr0g - well, you`re right too. I have countless albums on vinyl which have duff tracks on them. As much as I love vinyl (still buy it) you can`t erase the duff tracks whereas with MP3 files you only need to keep the tracks you really want. Wow, can`t believe I`m saying some of this but I have to say you have put forward a good case for modern technology. I now have countless tracks on my PC/MP3 which I would not have attained had I stuck to my old fashioned formats. They are great for listening to when I am working on the computer and when I travel to work on the train. Shuffle is good fun and I can put on so many albums on my MP3 that there is always something on it to suit my current mood. I guess I have the best of both worlds as I have recently bought a beautiful turntable. I still like to dust down a record and place it on the turntable when I feel like spoiling myself. I will always keep my treasured collection, however, storage space in my house is rather limited so having a collection of music on my hard drive is, I have to say, VERY useful.
At the end of the day it is of course down to personal taste. I think we are all fortunate to have the choices that are available to us.
Good thread Matt.
Clare - well, you`re right. Many artists sadly try to fill a CD with 75 mins of music which had they just kept it to the best 45 mins would have made a much better album.
fr0g - well, you`re right too. I have countless albums on vinyl which have duff tracks on them. As much as I love vinyl (still buy it) you can`t erase the duff tracks whereas with MP3 files you only need to keep the tracks you really want. Wow, can`t believe I`m saying some of this but I have to say you have put forward a good case for modern technology. I now have countless tracks on my PC/MP3 which I would not have attained had I stuck to my old fashioned formats. They are great for listening to when I am working on the computer and when I travel to work on the train. Shuffle is good fun and I can put on so many albums on my MP3 that there is always something on it to suit my current mood. I guess I have the best of both worlds as I have recently bought a beautiful turntable. I still like to dust down a record and place it on the turntable when I feel like spoiling myself. I will always keep my treasured collection, however, storage space in my house is rather limited so having a collection of music on my hard drive is, I have to say, VERY useful.
At the end of the day it is of course down to personal taste. I think we are all fortunate to have the choices that are available to us.
Good thread Matt.
Clare it's an eminently fair criticism and if you look at my earlier Posts I think you'll see that the company website was mentioned. It's disappeared and the formatting does not appear on this message board as I write it. I'll see if I can find a way of putting it back.
I'm trying not to push our products, my primary objective is to pass on what we've learnt from our customers and also give people better ways of assessing what they may be buying. It seems to us that there is a lamentable lack of understanding of the basic engineering principles essential for rational judgement.
I'm sorry about our separates too, but prices would have had to rise by about 25% because of Aluminium and Steel for Toroidal transformers shortages and because demand was falling. It seemed more sensible to concentrate on a product which was very much in demand and forget older technology.
Incidentally the ADM9's, shortly to become 9.1's and completely re-designed, are not just Active Speakers of which there are many available, they are a complete hi fi system in a pair of speakers, so not only are they a technically superior solution but one that saves the customer a great deal of money. Imagine the cost of the best DAC's preamps, electronic crossovers, a couple of power amps a side in separate boxes and pair of Speakers using drive units from the same company that supply Bentley and designed by the ex Chief Engineer of Scanspeak. It would be thousands of pounds!
However i know only to well that Enthusiasts love separates and many will go on buying them for years, what I'm/ we're saying is that all noughts and ones are the same if the file is in one of the Lossless Formats and that they will sound exactly the same as the digital output from a less reliable and less pleasant to use Optical Disc type transport. The only impact on sound quality will be the quality of the DAC that you do the conversion with. This puts Apple Computers, all of which have an optical digital output, smack in the centre of the home media market and if you're used to hi fi prices, they are a bargain and you should have one as part of any system.
HD play systems are actually more accurate and I'll explain if needed.
Ashley James
www.avihifi.com
I'm trying not to push our products, my primary objective is to pass on what we've learnt from our customers and also give people better ways of assessing what they may be buying. It seems to us that there is a lamentable lack of understanding of the basic engineering principles essential for rational judgement.
I'm sorry about our separates too, but prices would have had to rise by about 25% because of Aluminium and Steel for Toroidal transformers shortages and because demand was falling. It seemed more sensible to concentrate on a product which was very much in demand and forget older technology.
Incidentally the ADM9's, shortly to become 9.1's and completely re-designed, are not just Active Speakers of which there are many available, they are a complete hi fi system in a pair of speakers, so not only are they a technically superior solution but one that saves the customer a great deal of money. Imagine the cost of the best DAC's preamps, electronic crossovers, a couple of power amps a side in separate boxes and pair of Speakers using drive units from the same company that supply Bentley and designed by the ex Chief Engineer of Scanspeak. It would be thousands of pounds!
However i know only to well that Enthusiasts love separates and many will go on buying them for years, what I'm/ we're saying is that all noughts and ones are the same if the file is in one of the Lossless Formats and that they will sound exactly the same as the digital output from a less reliable and less pleasant to use Optical Disc type transport. The only impact on sound quality will be the quality of the DAC that you do the conversion with. This puts Apple Computers, all of which have an optical digital output, smack in the centre of the home media market and if you're used to hi fi prices, they are a bargain and you should have one as part of any system.
HD play systems are actually more accurate and I'll explain if needed.
Ashley James
www.avihifi.com
"141million consumers cant be wrong" did someone say? Why not? Are we all to abandon our HiFi because the masses buy into convenience? I love a BigMac but it aint good for me is it?
Just got to have my say on this one!!! Haha! For starters there is NO WAY (yes I'm shouting now sorry) that mp3 gives vinyl a run for its money in the sound quality stakes. Indeed the majority of mp3/AAC downloads are at pathetic bitrates from the 'market leaders'...128/192kbps. Please remember that mp3 throws away a whole load of information! On the whole downloads are fine for convenient, portable music but its quick, mediocre in quality and disposable...like buying a vinyl single in the 'olden days'! The number of high quality sites offering lossless downloads is still very limited. The iPod is NOT a hifi source and whether plugged into a dock or an amp it will not compete with a high quality cd player. For the majority of people convenience wins the day, hence its popularity and sound quality comes second. Phew rant over...
John Duncan
Well-known member
Ah but if you do it right, hard disk based recording is inherently more capable than CD replay. It's just that nobody's really bothering to do it right yet. There will still be a place for proper amplification and speakers, of course, but I think the prevalence of using the PC (or other hard disk-based thingie) as a source will increase exponentially, even amongst audiophiles.
I can understand people being sentimental about their physical CD and vinyl collection. I was too but gave computer music a trial run and once you get used to it find yourself reaching for the black and silver discs less and less...
MP3 doesn't actually sound too bad on a good HiFi, it's enjoyable enough, and you can stream thousands of free internet radio stations to your system to discover new music, or use websites like last.fm and discover even more music.
An iPod is much better than a portable CD player or cassette player. An iPod is tiny, doesn't skip, and can hold thousands of tracks. It's much better than carrying a few CDs around and using a big clumsy Discman that skips and uses lots of battery.
MP3 doesn't actually sound too bad on a good HiFi, it's enjoyable enough, and you can stream thousands of free internet radio stations to your system to discover new music, or use websites like last.fm and discover even more music.
An iPod is much better than a portable CD player or cassette player. An iPod is tiny, doesn't skip, and can hold thousands of tracks. It's much better than carrying a few CDs around and using a big clumsy Discman that skips and uses lots of battery.
[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Ah but if you do it right, hard disk based recording is inherently more capable than CD replay. It's just that nobody's really bothering to do it right yet. There will still be a place for proper amplification and speakers, of course, but I think the prevalence of using the PC (or other hard disk-based thingie) as a source will increase exponentially, even amongst audiophiles.[/quote]
Agreed. Though the noise made by my laptop fan is sooooooooooooooo irritating. Don't like having to have a computer screen in my face everytime i want to play music either!!! ah i dunno naymore..................
Agreed. Though the noise made by my laptop fan is sooooooooooooooo irritating. Don't like having to have a computer screen in my face everytime i want to play music either!!! ah i dunno naymore..................
[quote user="darrenwm1"]once you get used to it find yourself reaching for the black and silver discs less and less...
MP3 doesn't actually sound too bad on a good HiFi, it's enjoyable enough, and you can stream thousands of free internet radio stations to your system to discover new music, or use websites like last.fm and discover even more music[/quote]
Sounds like a compromise to me,
MP3 doesn't actually sound too bad on a good HiFi, it's enjoyable enough, and you can stream thousands of free internet radio stations to your system to discover new music, or use websites like last.fm and discover even more music[/quote]
Sounds like a compromise to me,
definatly sounds like a compromise, convenience is obviously more important to you than sound.
I know what people mean about giving albums a chance, i had allways like the beatles and when i first listened to their albums as oposed to their compilations i just skipped to the obvious tracks. Apon further listening i soon realised that the obvious tracks wernt the best or my now favourites
I know what people mean about giving albums a chance, i had allways like the beatles and when i first listened to their albums as oposed to their compilations i just skipped to the obvious tracks. Apon further listening i soon realised that the obvious tracks wernt the best or my now favourites
John Duncan
Well-known member
Ah but there's a difference between 128k mp3 and Apple lossless. if you can get that data off your computer via a good DAC, results *can* surpass even rather good hifi. It's that bit in the middle that's not trivial.
They are nothing like the compromise most people's hi fi amounts to and the better the hi fi the narrower the gap between them and the full file. However I think they should be considered as another source of music worth having and a replacement for nothing.
My Laptop, my Apple TV and my iMac are almost silent, but my daughter has a Windows HP and it's horrid and noisy with it.
If you aren't familiar with Apple you won't know what I'm talking about.
Ash
www.avihifi.com
My Laptop, my Apple TV and my iMac are almost silent, but my daughter has a Windows HP and it's horrid and noisy with it.
If you aren't familiar with Apple you won't know what I'm talking about.
Ash
www.avihifi.com
John Duncan
Well-known member
[quote user="Ashley James"] I think they should be considered as another source of music worth having and a replacement for nothing[/quote]
hear him
hear him
Compromise indeed if that is all you will be listening to, but is there some backpedalling going on? Now mp3 is to be used alongside of existing kit as opposed to replacing it?
I can't be bothered to walk to my CD rack, so I must choose any album from my lossless Beatles discography - as mentioned above - and stream it to high class DAC:
As I've said already, it's nothing like the compromise that vinyl is. I think they sound much better and so do many of our customers. Quite a few have started digitising their old records and ending up buying AAC's from iTunes or simply downloading MP3's from limewire because they preferred the sound. I realise that saying things like this on here is asking for a fight, but I really believe it and I can't understand why people still bother with vinyl.
The only explanation I can come up with is that music is compressed for vinyl so that it will track, which means it suits low powered amps better. Most people need much more powerful amps and they do suit digital sources better.
Just my thoughts
Ash
The only explanation I can come up with is that music is compressed for vinyl so that it will track, which means it suits low powered amps better. Most people need much more powerful amps and they do suit digital sources better.
Just my thoughts
Ash
[quote user="taxiboy"]Compromise indeed if that is all you will be listening to, but is there some backpedalling going on? Now mp3 is to be used alongside of existing kit as opposed to replacing it?[/quote]
What I'm saying is that you can buy lossless albums online and buy CDs and rip them to a server, but MP3s are free streaming from Amazon or Last.fm or internet radio to try out music.
Best of both worlds.
What I'm saying is that you can buy lossless albums online and buy CDs and rip them to a server, but MP3s are free streaming from Amazon or Last.fm or internet radio to try out music.
Best of both worlds.
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